Leslie

While we were watching the proceedings, it struck Mrs Leslie and me that this country has had such an enormous influence in the world in the past. Seeing all those Commonwealth leaders laying their wreaths and realising that there were servicemen from those countries fighting the evil forces of Nazism and the like with our own forces. The original British Empire and then the Commonwealth, although often criticised for exploitation etc. generally did a great deal of good in the world, and I think in the main that we can look back with a certain amount of pride in those achievements. Nothing is perfect of course as we see in some cases today.

I find it impressive that some 10,000 people are prepared to take part in the service and the march past the Cenotaph, and of course there are similar services being held all over the country. When you see the numbers of organisations that were involved as well as the armed services during the wars, it comes as a bit of a surprise the first time you realise who was actively involved.

One thing that I was really pleased to see was that those three veterans on the Great War were able to attend last night at the Albert Hall and the Cenotaph this morning at the ages of 104,106 and 108 years old. It is a sobering thought that the 104 year old was 14 years old at the beginning of the war and still managed to join up eventually and fight. The 108 year old served in all three services as well, he was either in the RFC or the RAF after the war as well as the Navy and the Army. The elderly should be accorded respect, especially those who have achieved what they did.

I personally find it moving to see these remembrance occasions. It is important to know our history since human frailties dont alter that much as the years pass and it is a good thing to realise the futility and obscenity of war. Maybe it will help us to do our best to avoid it in the future. It does no harm to look back and pay respect to those who made the ultimate sacrifice in all the wars in the past in order to preserve our modern day freedom from oppressive and evil government.

I believe it will be a bad day if these occasions cease to exist. Those who fought in those conflicts, both alive and dead, deserve to be honoured for what they did for us. I hope I don't see it forgotten in my lifetime.

Les

unclebuck

I'm sure the politically correct reformers would dearly love to see it discontinued. No doubt they see it as anachronistic and vaugely racsist etc... etc...

You only need to look what is happening to the current armed forces under New Labour. It's very sad really what this country is being turned into.

UB

Ted Maul

Leslie - isn't it more depressing that we can have such a remeberance while our troops of today are fighting a pointless war?

Whats the point of remembering if we keep making mistakes?

DrJP

I think you are missing the point, you remember the servicemen and women who fought in all the wars and conflicts, not the reasons for going to war. I worry that as time goes by people attach less meaning to these occasions, in my view they are very important and long may they continue.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

If it wasnt for the service personel who gave their lives in service of their country, you could be living in a far worse place right now, and if we didnt make mistakes (i dont know how you can call the invasion of Poland in 1939, or the invasion of Kuait in 1991 or the Falklands in 1982 a mistake though), then we wouldnt be human (though 2 of the above were acutally conflicts and not wars).

Tony

Leslie

I think you have got the answer to that one Ted Maul. The idea is to show respect to all who have fought in the defence of this country. That includes those who have fought in recent conflicts but not necessarily to celebrate the decision to enter those wars and those who are responsible for sending our forces to fight them.

Les

daiscooby

I am sorry to be negative, but why do we only focus on the dead ?. Yes we need to honour the dead for there sacrifice in the defence of this country and in times past free speech and world freedom. But to me Remembrance Sunday / 11th of November should a time for reflection for all those who have served.

Sorry but I feel agrieved when I see old soldiers at the Cenotaph in Newport yesterday obviously on hard times, but still with the pride and honour to be smartly turned out.

tiggers

Les,

Although it will probably surprise certain people on here I agree with you 101%. The two minute silence on Armistice Day has slowly been eroded over the years and the debate on SN about it the other day was, frankly, depressing.

The trouble is that a lot of people have little idea of what these people went through such that we can live our lives today the way we do. Seems to me that it is something that many people could do with a little education about - not likely to happen in today's society though more's the pity.

Regards,

tiggers.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Les,
Could'nt agree more mate, if it is forgotten this country should hang it's head in shame, like yourself I don't want to see it in my life time.
Cheers
Colin

TelBoy

Of course i agree wholeheartedly as well. It's things like these services which provide the heterogeneity of this country, sustain our national identity and so on. Without these, we might as well be any other developed country in the world; something i for one will do my bit to try to prevent.

Tiggs

its a battle you cant win......as time moves on people WILL forget. theres not a lot you can do about it. kids today will NEVER meet someone directly involved with a big war and not many will meet someone iin the forces as their numbers fall.

the recent conflicts, though bad, are not sufficient to sustain public thought....and the WW's are fast becoming bits of history. in addition, this land is now home to ots of ppl that have no history here that goes back that far.

look back 300 years, do you do much in memory of what happened then?

T

ps...just to clarify for the over excitable on SN......the above is MY OPINION of what will happen to rememberance sunday......NOT my opinion of it.

Ted Maul

I hear what you're all saying, and I know why we have the rememberance, BUT I find it hard to remember our boys properly and in the right way when all I can think about is the amount of our boys who lost their lives needlessly and are continuing to do so.

Meanwhile our government representatives would never miss the rememberance service as it is high profile but are they helping the old war heroes that are surviving on tiny pensions? and all the other neglectful actions they have taken.

Leslie

The points you make are absolutely right Ted, but does not stop me from respecting and remembering those who died and as Daiscooby says, all those who fought and survived.

Les

the moose

I'll stick my head over the parapet on this one.

I have no problem with Remembrance Day, nor with 11.11.11 as a constant time when it's observed .... but I particularly detest the Central London 'celebrations' which go with it. For those who have served in wartime, the memory is of noise, confusion, death, terror .... your basic nightmares. Yet the TV coverage is of horsemen with shiny uniforms, the Golden State coach, lots of ceremonial saluting.

It shouldn't be like this, with a commemoration of war virtually turned into a tourist attraction. People should be seeing a little more of the horrors of war, in my opinion, not just the spiffy uniforms.

Daiscooby was entirely right - let's remember the living, those who are hard done by, and who are fighting their hardest battles long after the war ended. Let's recall that although we have the Remembrance Day ceremony the MoD are STILL trying to argue against Gulf War syndrome, which seems somewhat hypocritical.

Come home in a coffin and your country salutes, come home wounded and your country tries to forget.

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

Actually they merely want it extended to cover more groups. Or some do: "political correctness" is no more homogeneous than "right-winger" or "conservative".

M