The Poll Tax
01 October 2004, 03:28 PM
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The Poll Tax
As its gets thrown up in almost any politcial thread on S'Net perhaps people could outline why they thought it was so bad - or - why they didnt have a problem with it.
Personally given the types of services local authorites provide a tax on the indivudual to me seems as reasonable as a tax on propery value (as now) or a tax on income (as some would like).
In fact if we take a few simplistic examples such as refuse collection / police etc then then number of people living in your house would seem to me more relevant than perhaps the mere value of the house. After all, my Wife and I produce far less rubbish, dont use schools, place less burden on the police etc, than family with 2 teenage kids living in a far smaller house.
So for me the only complaint for those against must have been as simple disagreement with the political philosophy. i.e. it is better for those who use the services to pay - rather than the more well off to pay more simply because they are more well off.
Whilst I accept its a perfectly valid view point to support the slatter rather than the former - I hardly think it seems to embody the very incarnation of the devil that some appear to suggest every time its mentioned.
Deano
Personally given the types of services local authorites provide a tax on the indivudual to me seems as reasonable as a tax on propery value (as now) or a tax on income (as some would like).
In fact if we take a few simplistic examples such as refuse collection / police etc then then number of people living in your house would seem to me more relevant than perhaps the mere value of the house. After all, my Wife and I produce far less rubbish, dont use schools, place less burden on the police etc, than family with 2 teenage kids living in a far smaller house.
So for me the only complaint for those against must have been as simple disagreement with the political philosophy. i.e. it is better for those who use the services to pay - rather than the more well off to pay more simply because they are more well off.
Whilst I accept its a perfectly valid view point to support the slatter rather than the former - I hardly think it seems to embody the very incarnation of the devil that some appear to suggest every time its mentioned.
Deano
01 October 2004, 03:36 PM
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I doubt very much wether the Stae pension (paid for by these future earners) will form very much if any of what I retire on
And anyway individuals paying an individual tax would ensure we all contribute to the schools equally.
And anyway individuals paying an individual tax would ensure we all contribute to the schools equally.
01 October 2004, 03:51 PM
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This was a post I made in another thread on Scoobynet discussing the poll tax. As you will see I don't think the idea of the poll tax was the problem, the way it was implemented most certainly was:
tiggers.
Originally Posted by tiggers
...the idea was simple and a very good one. However instead of everyone paying the same and the government collecting it centrally and distributing it to the authorities based on their needs/average annual population they:
a) allowed the authorities to set their own poll tax charges
b) made them collect it for each individual resident in their area based on how long that individual lived in that area.
c) made it the responsibility of each individual to notify their local authority as to their place of residence.
The fact that not everyone paid the same amount across the country and the fact that the local authorities struggled, particularly in the large cities, to keep up with population movement in and out of their respective areas hence making the tax very costly to collect were the final nails in the coffin for the poll tax system.
The general unrest about such an unjust form of taxation (not necessarily my opinion, but definitely that of many sections of the population) coupled with the local authorities not backing the system due to the reasons mentioned above finally led to it's replacement with the council tax system.
To this day I am still bewildered as to how a government can make such an appalling mess of what was such a simple and good idea. If they had thought it through properly it would have been one of their (few??) triumphs, but the way they spectacularly managed to get it so badly wrong is quite unbelievable.
a) allowed the authorities to set their own poll tax charges
b) made them collect it for each individual resident in their area based on how long that individual lived in that area.
c) made it the responsibility of each individual to notify their local authority as to their place of residence.
The fact that not everyone paid the same amount across the country and the fact that the local authorities struggled, particularly in the large cities, to keep up with population movement in and out of their respective areas hence making the tax very costly to collect were the final nails in the coffin for the poll tax system.
The general unrest about such an unjust form of taxation (not necessarily my opinion, but definitely that of many sections of the population) coupled with the local authorities not backing the system due to the reasons mentioned above finally led to it's replacement with the council tax system.
To this day I am still bewildered as to how a government can make such an appalling mess of what was such a simple and good idea. If they had thought it through properly it would have been one of their (few??) triumphs, but the way they spectacularly managed to get it so badly wrong is quite unbelievable.
01 October 2004, 04:38 PM
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The poll tax was by far and away the most fair tax. Anyone who believes that income related tax is far, is deluded or just plain stupid! Everyone should pay the same, and a % should be added on to allow for the disabled and elderly who cannot support themsleves.
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01 October 2004, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason Crozier
Why should I pay for elderly or disabled people ? ... etc. etc.
01 October 2004, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason Crozier
I wasn't disagreeing, it was an example of the often introspective approach by many people ... there is no need to convince me.
I have seen life both sides of the fence, my family were poor (which would appear to make them low life gypos) and so even though the Poll Tax would suit me fine right now, I still don't agree with it. That's my opinion, you now believe I am stupid ... thanks very much
I have seen life both sides of the fence, my family were poor (which would appear to make them low life gypos) and so even though the Poll Tax would suit me fine right now, I still don't agree with it. That's my opinion, you now believe I am stupid ... thanks very much
(jk)....seriously though. I can see why poorer familys would be against this, but it doesn't mean that their way is right....the system neither favours rich or poor in terms of what is being paid out by each person. Introducing the poll tax (or similar) again would do this country some good. Yes at first you'll get some of the population moaning that they are having to pay for what they use, and not having some poor (not in monetry terms) wealthy man, pay for them. After the initial bitching, some of the lazy people might get off their ***** and get some work done, and maybe make themselves rich...and those that genuinely need support, will have it.
01 October 2004, 05:35 PM
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My main gripe with the poll tax was that anyone renting at the time of introduction, ended up paying rates and poll tax. Even if you managed to get your rent reduced by the appropriate amount, the next contract renewal would see it go up to the previous level.
It also took no account of ability to pay. I was an apprentice at the time, earning **** all, but was supposed to find over 400 quid. At the time that was more than 10% of my gross salary.
It also took no account of ability to pay. I was an apprentice at the time, earning **** all, but was supposed to find over 400 quid. At the time that was more than 10% of my gross salary.
01 October 2004, 06:37 PM
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Spend a couple of minutes outlinig your view then.
That's all
The village had no library, no police station, no nothing (not even a chippy
) so that was where my problem lay...Payed every penny though and then was refused a rebate when I was on the dole for 6 months as I had savings (ie. what I was trying to live off)
Felt it was a bit off to use Scotland as a test bed as well
Hope that clears it up
Cheers
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