ajm

Got back a couple of weeks ago from delivering a boat from the Baltic to the Channel Isles via the Kiel Canal. We were about 15 miles into the canal playing the usual dodging game with coasters, tankers and container ships when all of a sudden we see this monstrosity heading towards us on our side of the canal (the rule is to keep right, but I think he was trying to stay in the deeper water around the corner).







I can't find anyone who can give a definate ID of the sub, so now its Scoobynet's turn!

Any ideas?

Neil Smalley

Looks like the Red October to me

Neil Smalley

Seriously, probably a Trafalger class http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/2299.html

If you have noted the number the above link will tell you what sub it actually was

ajm

As we were in the middle of Germany flying Her Majesty's Red Ensign it did occur to us that they may be preparing torpedo tube 1, but the crew seemed too busy waving and filming us filming them to have evil intentions!

ajm

We couldn't see a visible number number on it unfortunately. I am guessing it is no newer than 1980 though (it was diesel) and is most likely privately owned by a museum judging by the gear the crew were wearing, but I'm no expert!

ajm

It was difficult to gauge the size actually because you don't know how much is under water but I reckon it was very small as subs go, hence I think it was quite old. It was certainly nowhere near as big as modern subs are, I would hazard a very rough guess at only about 120ft!

Here is another shot:-

ChrisB

The forward mounted sonar pod (I guess) is distinctive but nothing in my copy of Jane's Warship Recognition Guide matches.

Neil Smalley

Maybe it was for a film?

ajm

Its a mystery! The closest I can find (in size and geographically) are small coastal submarines used by Denmark:

http://www.sok.dk/sorbetroyal02/uk/T...9/kronborg.htm

According to this site the Germans also employ small coastal subs. Neither look like the one above but maybe it could be an earlier version of a coastal sub used in that region?!

Its a possibility, but I can't imagine they would go to the cost of building a one-off for a film when so many working examples are available in maratime museums etc.

Ubik

What an unusual and intersting thread on scoobynet. It used to be one of my hobbies submarines, a lot of the family have been in the navy at one time or another. Its a bit late tonight but I will have a dig through my books and stuff tommorow and see if I can find anything.

Something suggests to me that its german I dont know why! I will have a look and post what I find. Sorry I dont want to get started on it now as its too late. Just popped on for a minute before I went to bed.

ajm

*Bump* for the week day shift!

Ubik

still looking LOL

Neil Smalley

If it was a Danish sub, then why fly the red ensign. I think a clue to it's identity may lay in that flag.

For the flying of ensigns, the law is as follows:
Subject to subsection (2) below, a British ship, other than a fishing vessel, shall hoist the red ensign or other proper national colours--

on a signal being made to the ship by one of Her Majesty's ships (including any ship under the command of a commissioned naval officer); and
on entering or leaving any foreign port; and
in the case of ships of 50 or more tons gross tonnage, on entering or leaving any British port.
Subsection (1)(c) above does not apply to a small ship (as defined in section 1(2)) registered under Part II.

Sticking neck out mode on.

So it can't have been a cilvilian vessel, unless as I guess it was for a film.

Sticking neck out mode off.

ajm

Neil, it was US flying the Red Ensign, the sub had no markings that we could see!

p.s. if it was a British Naval vessel it would be flying the white ensign

Neil Smalley

Ah ok.

Brendan Hughes

"We were about 15 miles into the Kiel canal"

"As we were in the middle of Germany"

NSS

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Lol @ Brendan

ajm, It must've been quite a shock seeing that coming towards you, it's not every day you see a sub, let alone on a canal

In the early 70's there used to be a narrow beam 60ft mock submarine and battleship floating exhibit that used to do the rounds of boat festivals on the British canals as part of a recruitment drive by the Royal Navy so I can actually say I've passed a submarine on a canal too, in fact we even used our boat to tow the sub off of a sandbank when it got stuck once

Neil Smalley

I guess Das Boot is on the other foot now Sal

ajm

It was a bit unexpected to say the least! I will add it to my "stranger things happen at sea" collection alongside the dead whale we saw 2 years ago moored up in gibraltar harbour having been pulled off the bow bulb of a ship where it had become wedged!

Distinguished Gentleman

ajm, I hope that you were wearing bicycle clips at the time it appeared !!

Ubik

Ajm,

Maybe: Agosta

The Agosta is a french design and the spanish use it. Pakistan manufacture them under licence (I initially found the picture

of a Pakistani submarine and had to do some searching on the web. Could think why a Pakistani sub would be up here!).

Heres some piccies I found, please judge for yourself.










Its a diesel electric so that fits your description. Seventy six metres long, is that about right? Some info says the crew is 30-40 some says as many as 60!



Theres a web page I have found with some details here but it has a popup so be warned!

http://babriet.tripod.com/navy/stat/statagosta90.htm






I will keep looking but this is the closest I have found so far.

Cheers
David

Ubik

Another piccy


Same in profile. Ajm if your memory is good does this look about right from the side?

Ubik

hehehe, aye I am a complete plonker! What is NSS?

P1Fanatic

Good work ubiq - looks the same to me.

Simon.

ajm

Nice one, it certainly looks the part!!! I am very surprised by the length though, its about double what I estimated!!!

Edited to add: if you look at the scale of the people in my photos I could have sworn the sub we saw was smaller although the design looks very simliar, but I guess perspective could have been playing tricks!

Ubik

ajm, Could you email me the photos? I guess they will be a higher reolution than the ones posted. It may help me get a answer.
I have PM'd you my email address.

Cheers
David

Ubik

Heres a french one in port



I dont speak french any one able to tranlate this bit?

S620 - Agosta

Surcale 10/11/1972 - Design or built?
Lance 19/10/1974 - Commisioned?
En Service 28/07/1977 - End of service
Desarme 28/10/1997 - Decommisioned

Perhaps these are now training boats? There were four of this type.


I think the pics I posted earlier must be a longer version of an old design. Looks like your estimate was probably spot on!

billythekid

A few years back I was up on one of the Scottish Islands, was taking some pics of the view out to sea when out of nowhere a sub shot up out of the sea, very spectacular. Got a fairly decent shot of it too. Was very big and was joined by 2 helos about 30 seconds later, they hung around for a couple of mins then the sub went back down and they copters flew off. That was the last I saw! LOL!

Ubik

French again (sorry)

Déplacement : 1450 tonnes en surface, 1725 tonnes en plongée
Dimensions (mètres) : 67,57 X 6,80 x 5,40.
Vitesse : 20 noeuds (en plongée)
Propulsion : 2 groupes électrogènes SEMT-Pielstick 16PA4 V185 VG de 850 kW - 1 moteur électrique de propulsion - 1 hélice. Apparaux de coque rétractables et effacés à la mer.
Puissance : 3500 kW
Distance franchissable : 8500/9 au schnorchel.
Autonomie : 45 jours
Equipage : 7 officiers + 24 officiers mariniers + 23 Quartier Maître et Matelots.

Names of the four;
S620 - Agosta
S621 - Bévéziers
S622 - La Praya
S623 - Ouessant

Just looking to see who might be operating them now or even if they were sold.

ajm

I have sent the hi-res pictures

Could well be the shorter one, although I still underestimated by 100' !!!

I guess I'd make a crap military intelligence agent! (although in my defense I was busy keeping our boat well out of the way!)