SimonH

Any legal types out there know anything about The Right To Access in regard to private properties? Basically I'm referring to the right of a neighbour to have access across your land even if it's for reasons that no longer exist?

For example, a Right To Access across land to get to a well (shown on 1870s map, gone in 1901 map). If the reason for a Right To Access no longer exists can people still claim it? It's not a Right Of Way and isn't marked on any maps as such.

Trying to help out a friend who's getting grief off her bizarre neighbours. They're claiming the right to walk up and down the side of her garden because there's reference to some old Right of Access in their deeds. People are wierd.

Any help gratefully received

PS. I take it only solicitors can get hold of current property deeds that are being held by a building society? We want to get sight of their deeds to see what exactly it is they are claiming.....

beemerboy

get her to borrow a few rottweilers (sp?) that should counteract any weirdo procession nicely.

or just get her to tell the police she is being harrassed. (ie people looking through her windows and generally being a nuisence) they will have to act on this, as she feels threatened.
I'm sure after plod has had a friendly word and accertained what exactly they are achieving (ie nothing) they would probably stop.
If i was a local copper i would hassle them just for being weird (my kind of approach to neighbourhood watch and neigbours from hell, rolled into one)

hope it works out

BB

Jerome

If these neighbours are members of the Ramblers Association (RA), she may as well build them their own path up the garden. The RA are a bizarre group of people that treat the "Right to Roam" as some sort of ultra orthodox religion.

There was a guy who built an extension on the side of his house, over a footpath that had been unused for decades. When they found out, the RA demanded that the path was reinstated. This guy had to knock an alley through his house to enable these weirdos access to the exact run of this path - walking round the house was too much for them apparently. The path doesn't even lead anywhere. These anoraks just walk through this alley once a month or so. I'd be tempted to cultivate a hornets nest in the alley and give it a good whack when I see some of these ******* coming.

SimonH

I heard about that one Barking mad....

This isn't a public right of way nor is it a right to roam issue.....it's right to "access" which i know nothing about nor can i find anything on the web about it.

Brit_in_Japan

Access rights can be hugely important. For example if the "bizarre" neighbours have a huge back garden for which there are access rights, then the garden can be sold to developers and a house built on it. They might be trying to "re-establish" access rights so they can do just that. I think he should see a solicitor PDQ.

Some info on access rights here

Leslie

Not certain,but I don't think the "right to roam" act is in place yet anyway.

Les

fast bloke

The deeds will hold the answer. Unfortunately a covenant in a deed doesn't expire, so even though the well is gone, they would usually have access from their land to the place that the well used to be. It will more than likely be clearly defined. If your friend is a leaseholder, they could apply to the freeholder to have the covenant revoked. Providing the freeholder owns the freehold on both properties he can do what he wants pretty much without consultation. If he doesn't, then your friend is going to need agreement of the neighbours freeholder (which could well be the neighbours) to have the covenant revoked.
They could also challange the covenant in court, but it usually takes years and the courts don't usually change easments (covenants which allow others to do something) without a good reason. Not sure if having weird neighbours is a good reason

Brendan Hughes

Our neighbour claimed a right of way had been established by the fact that the previous owners had let her walk her dog through the woods. ISTR significant periods of 40 yrs and 12 yrs, forgot what for. Anyway, as the 1987 storm blocked the path from her back garden, and we didn't clear it for 12 years, that's pretty much knocked on the head

OllyK

You can get the deeds online from the land registry for a couple of quid. They don't yet support the associated maps etc, it is just the text, but it may help.

I would have thought it was you friends deeds that was the important thing anyway as it will describe who can do what with his land - but I could be wrong!

chris singleton

As mentioned above, if the properties are registered apply for Official Copy of Register Entries for both from the Land Registry (£4.00 each, £8.00 if you want a Title Plan also).

These will contain all rights, reservations and covenants affecting the properties. It is possible that the right of way (if any) will be referred to in an old Conveyance or Transfer, if so, you will need a copy of that also (which again, can be obtained from the Land Registry).

Chris

Nick

There should be full details with your friend's house deeds, & with the neighbour's house deeds. The first step is to read exactly what the deeds say about the access, maybe get legal advice also. If it is specifically about the well only, the the correct course would be to go to a solicitor to get the deeds changed. This can be done between the 2 sets of solicitors. If it is just access to a well that no longer exists, the incorrect way to go about it.... would be for your friend to prevent their access to the "well" using reasonable means. This means that they would have to go to court to force their access rights. The judge would read that it's for access to the non-existing well & there's a good chance that their case would be thrown out.

SimonH

Thanks chaps - much appreciated Been on to the Land Registry and obtained copies of the deeds (well, the Title Register?) to the houses. Neither make any reference to a right of way, right of access or any form of covenant regarding land usage.

From what the person at the Land Registry said and as I understand it, any agreements of that nature that appeared in the deeds once upon a time should be carried over to new copies (as and when produced) if they are relevant and still in force. As there is no reference in the current deeds and titles that the Land Registry holds am I right in assuming that reference to such a right of way/access/whatever-it-is in old old deeds no longer applies? Thats the impression I got.

I think consulting a solictor may be the thing to do here - I just suspect they're trying to bluff my friend a bit....

fast bloke

tell them that your deeds contain no reference, and ask them to show you their deeds that show the right of access

Nick

Nah no good - it's make them look like bananas. If you're going the legal route, you give them no advance warning & hit them with the lot. If not the legal route, you don't fight little skirmishes & lose. So they show them the deeds, then what!?! Get all info together first.

fast bloke

so if the friends deed shows no right of access, how can they lose? The only person losing out would be the solicitor.


Both deeds will more than likely be the same. It is highly unlikely that one deed has been altered and the other unaltered. If the neighbours can't produce evidence of the easment then the friends could quickly erect a 5'11" fence. The neighbours will have to bring the battle to them and more than likely lose anyway. However, if the neighbours can produce evidence then it will be down to the court to decide. I would imagine that these people would like to have the situation rectified without paying a solicitor a fortune for sending a letter or two.

rotty

the only potential problem is that if it has been used as a right of way for a certain period of time then it becomes ones in law regardless of deeds

OllyK

Be interesting to see them produce a date stamped photo of them walking across the garden 10 years ago though

In all seriousness they will have a hard time proving that they have been using that access way regularly for the required period of time, especially when the apparent reason for the right of way has been removed some time ago.