SomeDude

Just wondered yesterday. Most threads seem to be Thatcher/Blair related, and one never sees the guy - who lead your country for quite a while - mentioned.

Was he really so bland/boring ? Or is it better to be a bit more "extreme" when you are a PM ?

Serious question.

Daz34

John who??

Terzo 333

And what about William Hague ?

The last I heard he was working for JCB but don't think he's still there

TopBanana

William Hague never led the country!

tiggers

Nor did John Major - that was the problem

unclebuck

Niether did he wreck it, in contrast to the present day incumbents.

Dracoro

Well, there was the ERM thing

unclebuck

Well, there was that.

douglasb

Thatcher was replaced by Major in 1990. It was Major and Lamont who were PM and Chancellor in 1992.

However, the interest rates thing (Black Wednesday) that happened in 1992 was a consequence of being in the ERM. The government of the day only had two choices; raise interest rates to maintain the value of the pound, or get out of the ERM. They raised interest rates and then got out of the ERM when they realised that the position was unsupportable.

Labour were fully in support of entering the ERM. Had they been in power at the time, they'd have had to face exactly the same choices. Tony doesn't seem to be in a hurry to remind people of this when he bangs on about how interest rates were higher under the Tories. However, I can remember far enough back to before Thatcher and what the mortgage rates were then. When Thatcher took over from Callaghan, mortgage rates had just come down to 12%.

Edit - unclebuck has edited his previous post and removed his reference to the ERM issue being the fault of Thatcher and Lawson. I should have quoted him in my response.

unclebuck

I was taking my info from this:

"The pressure came to a head in a clash between Margaret Thatcher's economic advisor, Alan Walters and Lawson - when Walter's claimed that the Exchange Rate Mechanism was "half baked". This led to Lawson resigning as chancellor to be replaced by his old protégé John Major.

John Major and Douglas Hurd, the then Foreign Secretary, pressured Margaret Thatcher to sign Britain up to the ERM in October 1990, effectively guaranteeing that the British Government would follow a economic and monetary policy that would prevent the exchange rate between the pound and other member currenices from fluctuating by more than 6%."

It seemed a little ambiguous, so I edited it out to avoid confusion.

UB

douglasb

It was a bit ambiguous. Thatcher and Lawson took us in to the ERM. Major and Lamont took us out after trying to prop up the exchange rate - as would any other government have had to do. Hindsight is a wonderful thing as it enables us to say that they should have taken us out of the ERM earlier, but what would the other lot have done? (or, indeed, a different Conservative leader?)

It seems to have been generally forgotten that if John Major hadn't negotiated the opt-out from the single currency at the Maastricht Treaty, we'd now be using Euros (which opens another can of worms about whether or not that is a good thing). Tony was thankful for that one when the rest of Europe changed currency...

unclebuck

So, far from not 'leading the country' Major contributed quite a lot. Certainly not all for the good!

However this is all economics, which, in the fullness of time as we know is repairable.

New Labour have effectively handed over their responsibility for the economy to the Bank Of England (perhaps because they knew they would be too incompetent to manage it?)

What I refer to with New Labour is their constant tampering with social 'reform' that they love to indulge in. This is having, and going to have, long term consquences which if left unchecked may be irreversable.

UB

Harry_Boy

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TelBoy

Thatcher was an impossible act to follow. Major allowed himself to be Thatcher's puppet for too long, so by the time he tried to stamp his individuality on it, his credibility was already undermined. Totally ineffective public speaker too which didn't help, even though as a politician he was actually halfway decent. Lucky to be in the right place at the right time, otherwise i don't think he'd have had a shot at the top job.

carl

There was, of course, also the ludicrous inflation rates of the mid-1970s (IIRC, 1975 was about 25% average for the year!) Wilson era.

tiggers

No let's get this right. Every economist in the land (including their own) had been telling them for several weeks prior to the fateful day that they would have to withdraw from the ERM, but they, as ever, didn't want to lose face so chose to ignore the fact. When the inevitable happened they raised interest rates to 19% and then around 25% as well as using a large proporation of the country's reserves trying to keep the currency within the ERM limits. Just twelve hours later they had to face facts - we were out of the ERM and considerably worse off as a country.

Yep - they sure knew how to look after us alright

Chip

As is the case with Tony Blair as well.

Chip

tiggers

Hi Chip - how are you mate? Back on our old battleground I see

douglasb

With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it is easy to criticise. A point that I made earlier still stands, though. Kinnochio and his followers were more enthusiastic about the ERM than Thatcher and Co. were. Had they actually been in power and had the UK in the ERM, they would have had to make exactly the same decisions. I wonder what the Welsh Windbag would have done?

David Lock

Curry aside I thought he was a chap you could trust - I would have been happy to have a pint and a chat with him and I can't say that about many of the current mob. He always struck me as a poor speaker which didn't help. DL

tiggers

Yeah, but my point is that the people telling them to get out before they cost the country a fortune did so without hindsight.

Agree with you on Kinnochio though.

tiggers.

SomeDude

Indeed. Both Thatcher and Blair - like them or not - can capture an audience, Major never seemed to catch your attention.

I saw Blair's "let's go to war" speech before the House of Commons yesterday, and even though I disagreed with what he was saying at the time (that's not the point) it was a very good speech/performance.

Maybe the cons need another "personality" like Maggie. What about Ann Robinson ?

DocJock

Eeerr, no thanks.

We can send her over to you though if you like

Senior_AP

I don't mind if the PM is bland/boring or a nutter!! As long as he or she does a good job then their personality is irrelevent.

Hague was an educated man but due to his voice (tone) and the fact he was bald was immediately dismissed by the British public. That's sad I think.

SomeDude

Very kind of you, but we already have about 70 ministers and 5 governments

Faire D'Income

His refusal to undergo any form of PR massaging was perhaps his biggest failing, either that or his overwhelming honesty which is not a politician's biggest asset. Remember Maggie with her voice coaching and Phoney Tony's body language courses? Well, Major categorically refused to be coached in any way preferring to be seen as for what he was, rather than what he could be but in my opinion was probably one of the most astute politicians of modern times.

A few have mentioned the ERM and some of the events leading up to Black Wednesday but I'm surprised that everyone seems to have forgotten George Soros' part in the whole shambles which led to the UK's departure from the ERM - anyone remember the $1 billion he made betting against the BoE which forced the departure? At the time he did an enormous amount of damage to the UK economy and yet people forget what he did and some of the misery he caused, the only redeeming feature in my eyes being the groundwork of scepticism he laid at the feet of the British electorate towards the Euro.

Read John Major's autobiography as it makes interesting reading, particularly as he comes across as an individual who is firmly in control of his ego and took his position very seriously.

Senior_AP

We didn't study 'Major' much in Politics - I don't know why. Thats interesting what you say though. I think I'll pick up his autobiography if its as interesting as you say.

I always thought he made a good PM at the time....but I didn't really know enough about Politics then to comment.

We'll just forget the 'Cones Hotline' though eh.

Suresh

Don't think it's all that reasonable to blame Georgie the opportunist for taking advantage of a superb opportunity gifted to him by pi$$ poor Government policy. Any fool could see they were going to fall out of the ERM, apart from as it transpired, the fools themselves...

Do agree with you that that the Tories not only did an enormous amount of damage to the economy but also damaged the future of Britain in the EU by making us look like such incompetent idiots.

Back on topic though, for me Johnny (Major) Ball will always be the morally bankrupt dunce who banged Edwina Despite his 'mister Grey' image, it turned out he was in fact the king of sleaze in the party of sleaze. Good riddence.

Suresh

Faire D'Income

Never having studied politics, I wouldn't say his autobiography is a light read; in fact I have found it hard going but if you take it in bite sized chunks it's easier to digest and there are some real gems in there. The Cones Hotline
was easily outweighed by the Citizen's Charter which in my opinion was truly groundbreaking for it's time and if it had continued to be implemented properly could well have helped to sort out many of the problems with our services.

tiggers

Was going to mention Soros, but being as some were struggling earlier in the thread to even remember who was prime minister at the time I thought it best not to introduce too much complication.