Moral Dilemma.
10 August 2004, 11:10 AM
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Moral Dilemma.
As you may or may not know, I write the occasional rave review. 
I dont just write em for here though. I write for www.ush.net and www.gurn.net and a free magazine that is given away outside of major Hardcore Raves called the Ravin Eye.
Another magazine has approached me and asked me to write for them. It will be a Hardcore magazine which will cost about 1.99. as its a commercial magazine I will be able to charge for my work and get some money for writing (As the mags and sites are non profit making I only get free entry into the raves I review for them).
I asked the people at the Ravin' Eye if they were okay with me writing for another mag and unfortunatly they were not. They viewed the magazine as direct competition and while they didnt say "Your write for them and you dont write for us anymore" in so many words, the implication was there.
The problem is this. I have a sense of loyalty to the Ravin' Eye. They have been very good to me and has gotten my work to a much wider audience than the sites ever have. Okay they havent paid me, but money in this case is not everything (When the MC spots me in the crowd and shouts out "Make some noise for astraboy cos he's wicked" and the place goes mental, it kind of puts money in its place,know what I mean?). However, the chance to be paid for my work again after so long is tempting. Its safe to say money is not always abundant and £50 quid for two hours work would not go amiss.
Should I stick with the ravin eye? or should I go to this new magazine? I'm leaning towards the ravin eye at the moment as me going where the money is makes me feel like a *****, I dont like the thought of going wherever the money is greater. I have a sense of loyalty to the Ravin Eye as they put me in print for the first time.
Any suggestions?
astraboy.
I dont just write em for here though. I write for www.ush.net and www.gurn.net and a free magazine that is given away outside of major Hardcore Raves called the Ravin Eye.
Another magazine has approached me and asked me to write for them. It will be a Hardcore magazine which will cost about 1.99. as its a commercial magazine I will be able to charge for my work and get some money for writing (As the mags and sites are non profit making I only get free entry into the raves I review for them).
I asked the people at the Ravin' Eye if they were okay with me writing for another mag and unfortunatly they were not. They viewed the magazine as direct competition and while they didnt say "Your write for them and you dont write for us anymore" in so many words, the implication was there.
The problem is this. I have a sense of loyalty to the Ravin' Eye. They have been very good to me and has gotten my work to a much wider audience than the sites ever have. Okay they havent paid me, but money in this case is not everything (When the MC spots me in the crowd and shouts out "Make some noise for astraboy cos he's wicked" and the place goes mental, it kind of puts money in its place,know what I mean?). However, the chance to be paid for my work again after so long is tempting. Its safe to say money is not always abundant and £50 quid for two hours work would not go amiss.
Should I stick with the ravin eye? or should I go to this new magazine? I'm leaning towards the ravin eye at the moment as me going where the money is makes me feel like a *****, I dont like the thought of going wherever the money is greater. I have a sense of loyalty to the Ravin Eye as they put me in print for the first time.
Any suggestions?
astraboy.
10 August 2004, 11:13 AM
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Still write for Ravin eye and write for the other mag under a different name and collect the money off them!!
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10 August 2004, 11:37 AM
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Keep doing it for the ravin eye
But do it for the new (paid) one and keep it anonymous under an alias.
Liken it to someone under a record deal- the deal is under that name, so create a new name and you a free to do something else under a new name.
No need to ditch the ravin eye- as you say, loyalty is important.
Either one could yield valuable contacts and more work.
When it comes down to it, you are freelance, and one isnt paying you.
Artistic integrity is fine if you dont have bills to pay......
But do it for the new (paid) one and keep it anonymous under an alias.
Liken it to someone under a record deal- the deal is under that name, so create a new name and you a free to do something else under a new name.
No need to ditch the ravin eye- as you say, loyalty is important.
Either one could yield valuable contacts and more work.
When it comes down to it, you are freelance, and one isnt paying you.
Artistic integrity is fine if you dont have bills to pay......
Last edited by Freak; 10 August 2004 at 11:41 AM.
10 August 2004, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Freak
Keep doing it for the ravin eye
But do it for the new (paid) one and keep it anonymous under an alias.
Liken it to someone under a record deal- the deal is under that name, so create a new name and you a free to do something else under a new name.
No need to ditch the ravin eye- as you say, loyalty is important.
Either one could yield valuable contacts and more work.
When it comes down to it, you are freelance, and one isnt paying you.
Artistic integrity is fine if you dont have bills to pay......
But do it for the new (paid) one and keep it anonymous under an alias.
Liken it to someone under a record deal- the deal is under that name, so create a new name and you a free to do something else under a new name.
No need to ditch the ravin eye- as you say, loyalty is important.
Either one could yield valuable contacts and more work.
When it comes down to it, you are freelance, and one isnt paying you.
Artistic integrity is fine if you dont have bills to pay......
I'm sure that they're not against you earning a wage - I'd have thought they'd be against one of their competitors gaining more readers through your work.
Just my 2p!
10 August 2004, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mad_dr
No offense but I'm confused by this - if you say that Loyalty is important, how can going behine Ravin' Eye's back and writing under a different name make you feel good and loyal?
I'm sure that they're not against you earning a wage - I'd have thought they'd be against one of their competitors gaining more readers through your work.
Just my 2p!
I'm sure that they're not against you earning a wage - I'd have thought they'd be against one of their competitors gaining more readers through your work.
Just my 2p!
astraboy.
10 August 2004, 08:30 PM
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Ravin eye is free the other mag is not, it is not direct competition between the two.
Go back to ravin eye, explain your thoughts, you have been loyal to them etc and the arrangment has been mutually benifical to both, however needs must (yours!). Ask them if there is any chance of them bunging you a few quid for your work, thus keeping your work exculsive (sp?) to them? They must be getting paid for advertisments, how else are they going to produce it? If they value your work it shouldn't be a problem.
See what they say, if no joy and you do decide to use another name be careful, as if you use the same article for both mags (even worded differently) they may cotton on.
Buck
Go back to ravin eye, explain your thoughts, you have been loyal to them etc and the arrangment has been mutually benifical to both, however needs must (yours!). Ask them if there is any chance of them bunging you a few quid for your work, thus keeping your work exculsive (sp?) to them? They must be getting paid for advertisments, how else are they going to produce it? If they value your work it shouldn't be a problem.
See what they say, if no joy and you do decide to use another name be careful, as if you use the same article for both mags (even worded differently) they may cotton on.
Buck
11 August 2004, 08:14 AM
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I think that if I did 2 lots of work - one for money and one for free, I'd soon start to let my quality slip for the 'free' publication - I'd see it as work for nothing. (Let's face it - who would get an additional job that didn't pay you money? (Voluntary work doesn't count))
I'd be doing twice as much work and would soon start to emphasise my efforts onto the 'paid job' which would put me in the position where I'd be letting down the company and people who Astraboy currently work for.
I'd be doing twice as much work and would soon start to emphasise my efforts onto the 'paid job' which would put me in the position where I'd be letting down the company and people who Astraboy currently work for.
11 August 2004, 10:06 AM
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astraboy,
Whilst I can see your point I would also ask is £50 every now and then going to make *that* much of a difference to your life to offset your feelings of 'selling out' that from what I read in this thread you are definitely going to experience if you chose to 'follow the money'.
Now I don't know much about the rave scene, but I suspect it might be like many of the musical niches, genres etc. that have peppered the UK popular music culture over the last thirty years in that there are those that are in it to get what they can out of it and those that are in it because they truly believe in it.
From your reviews posted on here you strike me as being in the latter category and as you say when you are recognized by the MC and 'the place goes mental' as you put it the feeling you get puts money into perspective.
Simple really, stay true to what you think is right and if you can't work something out for both magazines where both parties are 100% happy let the money go as at least you'll still have your self respect.
Just my 2 cents worth.
tiggers.
Whilst I can see your point I would also ask is £50 every now and then going to make *that* much of a difference to your life to offset your feelings of 'selling out' that from what I read in this thread you are definitely going to experience if you chose to 'follow the money'.
Now I don't know much about the rave scene, but I suspect it might be like many of the musical niches, genres etc. that have peppered the UK popular music culture over the last thirty years in that there are those that are in it to get what they can out of it and those that are in it because they truly believe in it.
From your reviews posted on here you strike me as being in the latter category and as you say when you are recognized by the MC and 'the place goes mental' as you put it the feeling you get puts money into perspective.
Simple really, stay true to what you think is right and if you can't work something out for both magazines where both parties are 100% happy let the money go as at least you'll still have your self respect.
Just my 2 cents worth.
tiggers.
11 August 2004, 10:51 AM
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If the free mag are worried about your writing for the competitors, it must show that they value your work. However, the fiscal reality is that the value they currently assign to your work is zero.
If I were you, I'd approach them and ask to be paid.
They believe that working for the commercial magazine will push the commercial magazine's circulation up to their detriment, so the corollary of that is that writing for the free mag is pushing up the free magazine's circulation. So you're effectively making money for them, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a share of that.
I'd say you are in a very strong negotiating position
If I were you, I'd approach them and ask to be paid.
They believe that working for the commercial magazine will push the commercial magazine's circulation up to their detriment, so the corollary of that is that writing for the free mag is pushing up the free magazine's circulation. So you're effectively making money for them, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a share of that.
I'd say you are in a very strong negotiating position
11 August 2004, 01:24 PM
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Some very good points raised here.
If I use an alias, there is always a risk of my getting caught. Then I would lose the ravin eye and that is somthing I dont want to do.
As Les quite rightly points out, loyalty is a rare quality these days and as someone who always tries to do the "Right" thing, I think the choice is obivious. Ravin eye it is
Thanks for your input chaps,
astraboy.
If I use an alias, there is always a risk of my getting caught. Then I would lose the ravin eye and that is somthing I dont want to do.
As Les quite rightly points out, loyalty is a rare quality these days and as someone who always tries to do the "Right" thing, I think the choice is obivious. Ravin eye it is
Thanks for your input chaps,
astraboy.
11 August 2004, 01:34 PM
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Well done mate, I think you've made the right decision and it's good to see someone with some ethics and loyalties in today's society.
All the best,
tiggers.
All the best,
tiggers.
Glad you made your mind up
11 August 2004, 01:44 PM
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You don't owe the Ravin' Eye a thing. You have had a mutually beneficial arrangement with them and they have no right, moral or otherwise to prevent you from writing for another magazine. In what way exactly is the magazine competing? Market share? It's a free mag FFS! LOL, I think the magazine is behaving very badly over this. It's as if they are about five years old or something. Write your stuff and get it published, mate. (Don't supply the same review to both mags, though, there's a good chap).
11 August 2004, 02:57 PM
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Hang on, before you make the decision, have you shared the dilemma with Raving Eye? i.e. if they're benefiting from your contributions and see a paid for title as competition, might they not start paying you rather than lose you?
Perhaps £30 per article instead of the £50, such that Raving Eye see you recognise the loyalty point?
Worth exploring - whether they recognise your value in cash terms or not, the things they say in such a chat could be decisive in determining whether your loyalty is well placed or not.
good luck
Gordo
Perhaps £30 per article instead of the £50, such that Raving Eye see you recognise the loyalty point?
Worth exploring - whether they recognise your value in cash terms or not, the things they say in such a chat could be decisive in determining whether your loyalty is well placed or not.
good luck
Gordo
11 August 2004, 04:54 PM
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my view
look your gonna grow up one day and stop all the raving malarky
you wont be doing it forever and dont you think it would put you in a much better place CV wise if you had sum "pro" writing work behind you??
the free mag loves you so much that there not paying you anything, if there not prepeared to pay then walk away, loyalty doesnt count for much when you will grow out of what your doing
hell i was admin on novaload.net for years and years and years, i would have considerd myself loyal, i wrote most of the technical guides, helped out whenever possible, payed hosting bills with the other admins, i was there from the beguining, ive scince left it.
i never use it anymore, to be honest i feel like i wasted far to much time doing sumthing that i wasnt being paid for and was costing me money (time/effort and sum cash)
i would have been FAR better off doing it "pro" and getting sum expeariance and cash out of it instead of wasting my own time for no real benifit
look your gonna grow up one day and stop all the raving malarky
you wont be doing it forever and dont you think it would put you in a much better place CV wise if you had sum "pro" writing work behind you??
the free mag loves you so much that there not paying you anything, if there not prepeared to pay then walk away, loyalty doesnt count for much when you will grow out of what your doing
hell i was admin on novaload.net for years and years and years, i would have considerd myself loyal, i wrote most of the technical guides, helped out whenever possible, payed hosting bills with the other admins, i was there from the beguining, ive scince left it.
i never use it anymore, to be honest i feel like i wasted far to much time doing sumthing that i wasnt being paid for and was costing me money (time/effort and sum cash)
i would have been FAR better off doing it "pro" and getting sum expeariance and cash out of it instead of wasting my own time for no real benifit
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