V45DSM

Whilst driving back from Newcastle to Cumbria today, I shot up the **** of a Black Octiva - I was about to 'have a go' untill the wench spotted a windscreen mounted camera. For the next 4-5 miles the tosser accelerated fast upto 80/90mph then droppped back down untill I was behind him again. He then got board and turned off and ****ed off back up the road.

A couple of quickies,

Do unmarked taffic cars have rear facing cameras and If I had been clocked coming from behind would I have been pulled there and then?

If the wench hadn't seen the camera and I took the bait and was booked, would I be able ask for the footage of him accelerating and dropping back?

Was he just after a show down?

-=Buzz=-

They can goad anyone stupid enough to "race" on the road I guess.

And maybe the driver of the car in front was sick of you tailgating him and was putting some distance between you on purpose, then settling back to his own speed - and you kept catching up then sitting behind him each time, not overtaking, worrying him...

See, there are two sides to every driving story.... and then usually there's the truth as well.

Nick

I'd have had a go at the Octavia in court for that. Police have no right to accelerate to 80/90mph & you should write a complaint to the local chief constable. You have a complaint against them for excessive speed & also dangerous driving. The correct method to deal with a tailgater is to slow down, this is because your stopping distances have been reduced. Inciting you to speed is also something that could be thrown at them in court.

Meanwhile, if you drove too close to him, you have a driving without due care & attention against you. Walloping along the outside lane up to a car in front of you is always going to cause trouble, will usually pisses anyone off.

Tiggs

"Whilst driving back from Newcastle to Cumbria today, I shot up the **** of a Black Octiva"

to answer your question....no- they cant goad me into a race...can they goad you?

hedgehog

Having seen them in action this sounds like fairly typical entrapment tactics. They will do anything to get someone they've already decided must be guilty of something and in view of your "arrival" on the scene they probably had some grounds to think that you might be sucked in to the trap.

I'd guess that if you requested the video as evidence for your defence then they would claim that the bit you wanted (i.e. before you passed them if you had taken the bait) was unused and so they wouldn't disclose it. You would have had a long and expensive fight to get the video and if you had won the rights to see it you would probably have found that it would have become "lost" and the case dropped, or their recorder didn't start operating until just after you passed or...

You could go to your local police station and make a formal complaint but, to be honest, it is more trouble than it is worth for you and you will not be involved in the "process" and so will have no idea if justice was done, though you will probably get a letter telling you that the officers have been spoken with but that no further action will be taken against them. Further action might be taken against you however as they might sit outside your house for the next year waiting for you to make a small mistake.

While this may sound cynical I have no points, no convictions and no axe to grind with the police but I've seen them in action and wouldn't trust them to sit the right way around on a toliet.

One of the most amusing attempts at a similar thing that I've heard of was a chap I work with, who always drives "sports" cars, who was stopped by police. They told him that they were testing their laser and could he go up to the end of the road and drive back towards them as quickly as possible, they would be very grateful for his assistance and he'd be doing his bit for law enforcement etc. As you might expect he declined the offer to assist the police in this manner. Of course he was in the car on his own and to be honest wouldn't have taken a complaint anyhow as he gave them top marks for trying to chance their arms in such a blatant manner. I think he figured that anyone stupid enough to get caught out by that trick deserved to be caught. I guess those two cops are still out there somewhere, so the next time you lift the paper and see someone done for 150mph in a 40 limit it might be worth considering that just maybe they were stupid and thought they were helping the police.

Nathan L

Nick

Not wanting to hijack the thread but.....

Why is 80/90mph dangerous but tailgaiting only careless?

Nathan..

Tiggs

you cant entrap an inocent so if they catch you tuff

witness

You shouldn't tailgate so stop being paranoid and drive sensibly!! Yes they can have back cameras but most of the time they face forward and that is what they record. I fyou drive like a pratt you will get your just deserve so stop blaming it on others trying to goad you etc.

Nick

"For the next 4-5 miles the tosser accelerated fast upto 80/90mph then droppped back down untill I was behind him again"

I assumed from that he was doing this several, or many times. That's dangerous driving. Tailgating would depend how close.. no info on that from the poster, so I just assumed 1 sec which is ok if you intend to overtake as your next manoeuvre, I suppose. Of course, he may have meant 12 inches - which is crazy time.

Dracoro

I'm with Tiggs on this one. To be 'entrapped' in this manner requires you to conciously and deliberately break the law. If you don't tailgate or break the limit or drive dangerously then you've nothing to worry about.

Suppose it depends on how we interpret the original posters text. 'I shot up the ****' sounds like what bmw drivers do in the outside lane to try and get them out the way (i.e. tailgating etc.). Maybe that's not what the poster did, but it sounds like it.

Can someone also tell me how accelerating up to 80/90 on a motorway and tailing off again is dangerous? poor or unneccesary maybe, but dangerous? that's rather strong and emotive for what seems a minor misdemeanour. I mean, how many lives were put at risk by this manouvre? I'm sure many of us accelerate a bit to shake off a tailgater on a motorway, slowing right down maybe appropriate on a normal trunk or b road but on a motorway pulling over or speeding up if often preferable, safer and better for traffic flow. Really depends on the road conditions at the time.

hedgehog

The very point of entrapment is to lead someone to do something that they were not going to do. They are innocent until they have done something, in the most general terms.

In the case of the post that started this thread I would guess that the police believed him to be guilty of exceeding the posted speed limit and to be the sort of person who might engage in a race on the road. Speeding is a crime for which they may have been in a position to charge him as the law does not require lasers or cameras it only requires the opinion of 2 police officers that you were exceeding the limit. Hence why you may be charged with exceeding the limit but no actual speed may be given, this is only really relevant to a court when deciding the sentence. I don't know if there were two officers in the car, even if there was only one then I suspect the thought process went as follows:

"Looks like that driver was speeding along rightly. Perhaps I have enough evidence to get him for speeding but lets see if I can lay something more exciting on him. Looks like he'd be the type game for a race given a bit of encouragement, lets take off and see if he tries it on and then I have him for careless. Hmmm, not much reaction there, lets give it another go..."

That is entrapment because although V45DSM may have been exceeding the speed limit and, perhaps, driving badly in other ways he would not have engaged in a race, and therefore clear cut dangerous or careless driving, with another car had it not of been for the presence and behaviour of the police driver.

The police driver also had the option to slow down such that V45DSM could overtake. If he believed that, after overtaking, V45DSM was exceeding the posted limit then he could have followed and used whatever technology was available (assuming only one police officer) to establish that V45DSM was speeding. Again this option was ignored in favour of encouraging a more serious offence to take place. Had V45DSM passed the police car in a "race" situation then, in view of the likely performance of both cars, speeds in excess of 100mph seem probable and supported by an expert witness claiming that V45DSM was involved in a "race" it would seem likely that very serious charges would be laid and would result in a significant sentence.

While there is no doubt in my mind that this was entrapment of V45DSM what is even more worrying is the potential for a dangerous situation to arise. As others have observed it doesn't sound like the driving exhibited by V45DSM was of the highest standard. It occurs to me that any attempt to entrap such a driver in the manner detailed must present a high level of danger to the general public and I would assert that this potential for danger would greatly outweight any benefit there may be in V45DSM getting a more severe sentence just because the police officer thought he looked guilty of a more serious crime.

While V45DSM may be in a position to make a complaint I suspect that a more sensible route may be be for him to learn a few lessons about his own attitude and driving from the experience. Hopefully he will come out of it a better driver despite the deplorable and unprofessional behaviour of the police driver.

mj

hang on a minute, are you sure it was a police car ?- after all, the camera was spotted by a woman - case dismissed.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I happened to be late picking someone up from the airport late one night. So I blast down the empty dual carriageway at an excessive speed, approaching a silver octavia, then the traffic lights changed to red, meaning I had to slow fairly rapidly. I instinctly went for the right lane (in a rush plus was driving a BMW 535 ). I happened to casually glance over and noticed two men in white shirts with usual black bits of a coppers uniform looking back me

I thought ****, 24 year old in a smart 535, driving like a loon into Brum - I'm done for. And upon the green lights off we went, up to 40 limit, they matching my speed staying along side, limit goes to 50. I speed up, thay stay along side.

By then I thought yeah right, I'm not that stupid, slowed down and pulled in behind...then they sped up! I stayed at 50 and decided to take an "alternate route"

They may have been armed coppers/drug squad as I have heard it mentioned they use silver octavia's. Not sure if they were traffic, but it makes you think - that car could be an unmarked copper.

ianc

Simple, don't race octavias.....

pbee

most of the unmarked cars round here are vrs's, stick out like a sore thumb with 2 blokes in black and white.

wez_sti

round essex there was a nissan 200sx and a beemer going round and round these 2 roundabouts getting the back out for quite some time, the beemer then put his lovely blue flashers on and did the guy in the nissan for dangerous driving. out of order, i think so!

Tiggs

"out of order, i think so!"

no different to a cop undercover pretending to enjoy whatever activity it is his target enjoys.

wez_sti

what a randy coment! so its ok for the copper to drive 'dangerously' but not the public? do undercover cops kill people then to goad gang members into killing someone else?

witness

Coopers do not break the law and for you to say something was unfair you have to be in that situation and know all the facts. There may have been other intelligent reasons as to why cars are stopped! You guys are sooooooo anti-police it is unbelievable. Reading your posts it is no wonder they always pull you over and are suss about scooby drivers.

juan

Why? Do you think it wasn't dangerous driving?

wez_sti

i agree its dangerous, which is why i didnt see the need for the copper to join in....


nothing against coppers as a whole, considered being one and know several, but there are some (same as some scoob drivers) that are complete c*nts out to p1ss people off.