Gordo

I do not understand why people think that fuel blockades/ demonstrations etc are justified.

The price at the pumps is rising because of the oil price - simple market forces at work.

This is not the government's fault. Whether the government should put more tax on fuel or not is a separate issue.

Yes, we may have higher tax on fuel here than most other developed countries but so what? People love to jump on individual taxes but conveniently ignore taxes that are much higher abroad - the only meaningful comparison is the overall tax take - we are up there with the highest taxed countries but not by much (and this could be solved under a less puclic sector focused regime!). If fuel tax were to be reduced, it would only result in other taxes going up instead. Let's face it, if Brown is going to continue living his budget deficit lie, the extra tax has to come from somewhere.

The roads are still over-used - the only way to reduce this is to tax it more. Anyone complain there's not enough pollution or too many empty roads? No, of course they don't. Therefore fuel is not overpriced.

It especially amuses me when most people on this site (like me) run cars that are hardly efficient in any case - deliberately choosing to fund a car that loves petrol stations as much as a fat lass loves pie shops. A bit contradictory to whinge about fuel prices, me thinks.........

Gordo

Scooby-Doo

Have to agree with you Gordo. The Chairman of farmers for action, David Handley, who ran the previous protests has stated "their is overwhelming support for action" unless the Government takes action in three days.

What in the hell has the Government got to do with the price of Oil in the market...............unless you attribute the war to part of the increase

imlach

I was thinking about setting up a new basketball team this morning, but was struggling for a name....

The Scooby Lakers came to mind

farmer1

Actually I think the fact that we run fuel greedy cars gives us more of a right to moan. As we are being taxed more for our hobbys then say book readers.

I say that fuel tax should be for maintaining roads therefore people who use them more pay more. And tax for government funds should all be on income that way very few people get the raw detail because of their hobbys and everyone shares the burden.

ProperCharlie

everyone shares the burden of the fact that you want to f**k up the country by driving everywhere? now that really is fair...

farmer1

Don't drive yet

ozzy

The recent price hikes is caused by rises in crude oil - plain and simple.

The chancellor is ready to whack on another 1.9p in September. There have been calls for this rise to be scrapped as the increase in tax revenue from both $ vs £ exchange rates and increased pump prices can generate enough income than the pre-planned increase.

The government win on both counts - exchange rates are in their favour and they make a fortune exporting our oil and also get huge increases in revenue from pump price increases.

If you don't complain or protest, then nothing can be done. If enough pressure is put on goverments, then action can be taken. OK, petrol prices may not be as important as womens rights or nuclear weapons protesting, but if you sit back and do nothing it'll happily continue.

The oil producing companies can do that - produce more oil to meet demand. To say that it's all out of our control is completely stupid. Have you all forgotten we actually produce and refine oil in this country?

Yes, I run an inefficient car, but I still don't like paying through the nose for it. Would you be happy paying say a £1 per litre???

Fuel prices hit motorists regardless of whether you run a gas-guzzling Impreza or a dinky toy diesel. Just so happens that our costs are soaring.

It also hits freight companies & public transport costs, so to simply tax everyone the same is an old fasioned idea. Personally, I think they should give much higher tax breaks to give some incentive to move away from a inefficient car.

Let's cut the costs of pump prices and raise direct Road Tax. Of course, petrol is too big a money spinner for the government to take that idea onboard.

Stefan

Jye

It's between 1.09 and 1.12 a ltr in certain forecourts right now.

imlach

Road Tax is not proportional to use though.
Fuel Duty is the best option. The more you use, the more tax you pay. Simple.

Tax breaks are, of course, a viable method. I'd be all for increasing fuel duty for the general public, and giving tax breaks to essential users, public transport, and those using greener methods.

Let's face it, tax breaks are fine, but if you introduce them, the revenue has to be found elsewhere, and that'd mean increasing normal fuel duty. I'm all for it.

ajm

We don't blame the oil companies, we blame the greedy government. They should absorb the fluctuations from the outragous amount they rape in tax!

OllyK

Derv ~ 80p /l
Marine Derv ~ 25p /l
Go figure!

RayC

Sorry Chaps, i disagree strongly!

More than 80% of the price of fuel is tax, if the government reduce the amount of tax on fuel the price will come down.

The problem with just adding tax to stop people using their cars is that the alternatives are not as viable, the trains are **** and buses are full of chavs and chewing gum, also if you make fuel more expensive, moving goods are more expensive, so it knocks onto all other cost including food.

If the tax made from fuel tax was put into public services we would not be in this mess, something like less than 10% of all road and fuel tax's are put back into transport, i havn't hade time to look fully into the figures but we are being ripped off

I am resisting the urge to bash the governement but if you want to compare prices, the USA pays $1.92 per gallon, we pay nearly £5 ($8) per gallon and the cost if living in the USA is about 25% cheaper than here

Anyway it is work time and thats my veiw if someone wants to look up actual figures i would be intersted

Ray

ozzy

Imlach,

I don't have a problem with proportional tax; it's the amount of tax I have a problem with.

You're also assuming we don't generate enough tax as it is. What really gets my goat up is the sheer waste of tax by local authorities. It's the constant bail-out of them that consume more and more tax revenue.

Stefan

RRB

Gotta agree here I have worked for local council and you would be amazed at the amount of money that is wasted with them.

RRB

So your saying fuel is only taxed at 17.5 % now ?

imlach

Anyway, you've got to look at it like this. If BP/Shell get the crude for all their petrol from the North Sea, their production cost has not gone up. There is no threat to the North Sea from terrorists (as yet). They haven't bought crude on the open market, as they drill it themselves.

Yet they have increased their prices. Cartel anyone

ajm

Good observation, however the dissatisfaction goes back further than the last round of price increases. Prices have been far too high for years, and the greater burden of blame for those prices lies with the government and their requirement to take an ever growing proportion of our money!

ProperCharlie

no, but VAT is the only element of the tax that increases in proportion to overall cost.

OllyK

RRB - I was going to say that, but IIR the duty is at a fixed (large) amount per gallon / litre, the VAT however being a percentage does vary. As a result, duty remains the same per gallon regardless of the crude price.

imlach

Here we go again. Understand fuel taxation first, and then get back to me

Apparition

Farmer 1 ... you bought any books lately ???

The more fuss is made of this juice issue, the more the 'powers that be' are going to think...."ah well they expect it to go up in price....... can't dissapoint them can we ?"

RRB

Umm i was asking a question, but there is no point in getting back to you because you look at the world with imlach coated lenses.

farmer1

No but I am told by the person I work for that books are VAT free, well the ones we sell are anyway.

imlach

Yeah, unlike the tabloid coated ones you look through
At least I understand the facts about taxation first before shouting off about it

RRB

Actually i dont read any tabloids. At what point did I go shouting off about taxation in this thread ?

imlach

Yeah, and I don't wear specs, so we're all even then

You didn't spout about taxation (yet).

TelBoy

Exactly. Weeks of pain again, for what?

Said it before, say it again. Unless there's an election looming, and there isn't, the Government will do sweet fa. Because they *know* we all have to buy it in the end, whatever the price.

Carry on...

ozzy

Imlach,

Why don't you educate RRB and explain to him how fuel taxation works. Maybe then he'll come around to your way of thinking ...... or then again maybe he won't.

At least it'll prevent the usuall Scoobynet schoolboy name calling

Stefan

RRB

Exactly so why dont you keep your comments until i do.

unclebuck

But, of course it *is* the governments fault. If they hadn't inflamed the arab oil producing region so with their phoney war we wouldn't be in this mess now. It's a New Labour double-whammy.

UB