What would you class me as?
09 March 2004, 09:15 PM
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What would you class me as?
OK, here's my views on a few things, I'm curious to see what people would class me as, a racist? normal human being? insensitive soul? *****? idiot? moron? muppet?
so, the views:
Ok, lets start with everyones fave, Illegal Iimmigrants. My personal feeling is that they should be kicked out of the UK and sent back to wherever they have come from. If you are entering the country illegally you have no rights, it's as simple as that, if I entered Canada illegally I would not expect to have any rights. The case of the chap who ran over and killed the 9-yr old boy in sussex sicken me. He is dropped into a nice comfy warm prison cell and the UK tax payers are paying for this, why is he not just booted out of the country? As for the cocklers, well, tragic, but they should not have been here, and the wife of one of them trying to claim compensation? sorry, I don't think so, he was here illegally, sorry, tough.
Next up, Religious Fundamentalists. Another group we love to hate. They come to the UK, live in the UK, maybe even work in the UK, happy to claim benefits, and happy to take advantage of the health system, but then they go on and on about the Evil west and trying to stir up hatred for the west and talk about terror attacks on the UK. Umm, sorry, but why are you in the UK if you hate it so much, bugger off somewhere else, oh, but you like the nice easy life you have here? well, STFU and stop making threats, God forbid if we went to the country of origin of your religion and started spouting off about blowing places up, I think we'd end up in a right sorry state.
What else, ah yes, Ethnic groups that demand ethnic only areas, hmm, what if we want a british only area? oh no, that's not allowed, it's not PC, it's racist, but it's ok for us to bow to the cultures of another country, but not the original culture of the UK? something is wrong here.
So, there is my little rant, do you think I come off as a racist? or facist perhaps? How many other people on here will actually be bold enough to agree with what I am saying, and before ANYONE jumps down my throat and says I'm trying to incite hatred, I'm not, I simply stating how I feel about some things.
Maybe I should not have watched that Episode of Spooks last night?
so, the views:
Ok, lets start with everyones fave, Illegal Iimmigrants. My personal feeling is that they should be kicked out of the UK and sent back to wherever they have come from. If you are entering the country illegally you have no rights, it's as simple as that, if I entered Canada illegally I would not expect to have any rights. The case of the chap who ran over and killed the 9-yr old boy in sussex sicken me. He is dropped into a nice comfy warm prison cell and the UK tax payers are paying for this, why is he not just booted out of the country? As for the cocklers, well, tragic, but they should not have been here, and the wife of one of them trying to claim compensation? sorry, I don't think so, he was here illegally, sorry, tough.
Next up, Religious Fundamentalists. Another group we love to hate. They come to the UK, live in the UK, maybe even work in the UK, happy to claim benefits, and happy to take advantage of the health system, but then they go on and on about the Evil west and trying to stir up hatred for the west and talk about terror attacks on the UK. Umm, sorry, but why are you in the UK if you hate it so much, bugger off somewhere else, oh, but you like the nice easy life you have here? well, STFU and stop making threats, God forbid if we went to the country of origin of your religion and started spouting off about blowing places up, I think we'd end up in a right sorry state.
What else, ah yes, Ethnic groups that demand ethnic only areas, hmm, what if we want a british only area? oh no, that's not allowed, it's not PC, it's racist, but it's ok for us to bow to the cultures of another country, but not the original culture of the UK? something is wrong here.
So, there is my little rant, do you think I come off as a racist? or facist perhaps? How many other people on here will actually be bold enough to agree with what I am saying, and before ANYONE jumps down my throat and says I'm trying to incite hatred, I'm not, I simply stating how I feel about some things.
Maybe I should not have watched that Episode of Spooks last night?
09 March 2004, 09:25 PM
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I think your views are perfectly normal, even mainstream. Many of those who agree with you may well be cagey about admitting as much in public though. The silent majority are deafening in their silence.
Personally, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Personally, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
09 March 2004, 09:32 PM
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dpb - good point. I'm not a permanent residient of canuck land, I'm probably an immigrant worker, not sure, think I have landed status, never sure! lol I know I AM a Intra-Company Transferee as that is what it says on my work permit.
Jerome - that is partially my point. The whole silent majority thing. As said, don't thing many on here would openly admit to sharing my views, in case a few people jump on and cry racist.
UB - chavs, ah, good point <rant, snarl, rant, burberry, growl, snarl>
Jerome - that is partially my point. The whole silent majority thing. As said, don't thing many on here would openly admit to sharing my views, in case a few people jump on and cry racist.
UB - chavs, ah, good point <rant, snarl, rant, burberry, growl, snarl>
09 March 2004, 09:40 PM
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Markus, think you are pretty much spot on. You are not saying "All non whites should be shipped back to where they came from", which would be considered racist, just those that have no good reason for being here.
Religion is a dicey topic at best, remeber though that all religions have their fanatics, christians, muslims, jews etc alike. I think you point is more about culture, i.e. capitalism vs other. I appreciate that much of that kind of comment has come from (flame suit on) Muslim FUNDAMENTALISTS (and I do mean that, not your "every day" Muslim of which there are many in this country who are just as appauled about the 911 activities and so on as the rest of us) however that kind of attitude has been coming from comunist staes such as Russia and China for many many years. However you want to look at it, it is an attack on ideals we hold dear, and in saying that I don't condone activities by the UA, UK and other in imposing our way of life on others any more than I do the other way round. Religion is the cause of a great number of the problems in the world today, I won't go any further on my religious beliefs, but if people have read my posts on other contensious issues they can probably work them out.
Ethnic groups, well things are getting a bit over PC I have to admit, to get a job with Leicester council, speaking an "eastern" language is almost compulsart these days. Fine let them have their gatherings as long as generally speaking they try to integrate in to the day to day life of this country and they don't bitch if others want to do the same.
Religion is a dicey topic at best, remeber though that all religions have their fanatics, christians, muslims, jews etc alike. I think you point is more about culture, i.e. capitalism vs other. I appreciate that much of that kind of comment has come from (flame suit on) Muslim FUNDAMENTALISTS (and I do mean that, not your "every day" Muslim of which there are many in this country who are just as appauled about the 911 activities and so on as the rest of us) however that kind of attitude has been coming from comunist staes such as Russia and China for many many years. However you want to look at it, it is an attack on ideals we hold dear, and in saying that I don't condone activities by the UA, UK and other in imposing our way of life on others any more than I do the other way round. Religion is the cause of a great number of the problems in the world today, I won't go any further on my religious beliefs, but if people have read my posts on other contensious issues they can probably work them out.
Ethnic groups, well things are getting a bit over PC I have to admit, to get a job with Leicester council, speaking an "eastern" language is almost compulsart these days. Fine let them have their gatherings as long as generally speaking they try to integrate in to the day to day life of this country and they don't bitch if others want to do the same.
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09 March 2004, 09:52 PM
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Olly. I was going to say muslim, but decided to say 'religious' simply as if you mention the word muslim then all hell breaks loose! and this is part of the problem! I have a few muslim friends and they are great, ok, a couple of them you do NOT talk religion or politics too, as it gets a tad mad.
I think that when you hear muslim, people think of the sterotypical non white person and thus everyone is tarred with the same brush.
If you want to talk about your religion, fine, but don't try and force it down other peoples throats or say that 'my' religion is the only true one and that 'your' religion is wrong.
A good example is ancient Eygpt, we read their religious tomes as literature, whose to say than in a few hundred years people won't read our religious tomes in the same way? (ok, plagurisim from mr K Smith, but tis a good point)
My beliefs? well, I think there is a higher power, a God if you will, and I was brought up Catholic, however, I see no reason to have to go to a church to pray, I recall being told that God is always watching and listening, so therefore you can pray wherever you wish! I don't push my beliefs on other people.
As was said in Dogma, an idea is better than a belief, you can change an idea, it's harder to change a belief.
I think that when you hear muslim, people think of the sterotypical non white person and thus everyone is tarred with the same brush.
If you want to talk about your religion, fine, but don't try and force it down other peoples throats or say that 'my' religion is the only true one and that 'your' religion is wrong.
A good example is ancient Eygpt, we read their religious tomes as literature, whose to say than in a few hundred years people won't read our religious tomes in the same way? (ok, plagurisim from mr K Smith, but tis a good point)
My beliefs? well, I think there is a higher power, a God if you will, and I was brought up Catholic, however, I see no reason to have to go to a church to pray, I recall being told that God is always watching and listening, so therefore you can pray wherever you wish! I don't push my beliefs on other people.
As was said in Dogma, an idea is better than a belief, you can change an idea, it's harder to change a belief.
09 March 2004, 10:00 PM
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I rest my case! :D
Originally Posted by Markus
Spoon - muppet is cool, it's a good tag
09 March 2004, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Markus
God forbid if we went to the country of origin of your religion and started spouting off about blowing places up, I think we'd end up in a right sorry state.
you gotta love these little "rants" that manage to utterly ignore any global context. and this from someone who doesn't even *live* in the uk.
personally, i think you ate one too many whole bran muffins.
09 March 2004, 10:12 PM
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What are you talking about? Iraq? India? sorry, am a bit thick, and am being honest here.
I don't currently live in the UK, as I'm working in Canada at the moment, but I am a British citizen and had, until last april, lived in the UK for 29 years, so I do think it is fair for me to comment on such things, regardless of where I might be now, I still think of the UK as home, and 98 percent of my family live in the UK.
I don't currently live in the UK, as I'm working in Canada at the moment, but I am a British citizen and had, until last april, lived in the UK for 29 years, so I do think it is fair for me to comment on such things, regardless of where I might be now, I still think of the UK as home, and 98 percent of my family live in the UK.
09 March 2004, 10:26 PM
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Hi Markus, I think you should travel around the world a bit and I mean the rough parts as I think it may soften your views somewhat (maybe you have?). As for the illegal who killed that kid - I know that road and if I were a mum I wouldn't let my young kid anywhere near the place. D
09 March 2004, 10:30 PM
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David - yeah, it probably would soften my views a bit. I am slightly sympathic to certain people wanting in to the UK, I know it's a good place to be, but just gets me that we seem to be a total soft touch.
09 March 2004, 10:35 PM
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markus - iraq would be the most recent example, yeah.
fair enough; you're a uk citizen - you're entitled to comment. i agree with you there. OTOH, you must see a *tiny* bit of irony in someone broadcasting ftrom one of the most under populated countries in the world saying "lets kick all the illegals out of the uk".
fair enough; you're a uk citizen - you're entitled to comment. i agree with you there. OTOH, you must see a *tiny* bit of irony in someone broadcasting ftrom one of the most under populated countries in the world saying "lets kick all the illegals out of the uk".
09 March 2004, 10:36 PM
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Markus - spot on mate. No need to soften your views. Others need to *toughen up* a bit so we can throw out the slimy bu^^ers that are taking us for a ride!
Hey! If some illegals come in from Franch - ship them back there. EU law states that asylum seekers should claim in the first EU country they come to so the French have no come backs. As Britain is an Island there is absolutely NO way that an (genuine!) asylum seeker can get here legally - so there should be no problem right???
Dave
PS: FRanch was just an example - it could have been any country!!!
Hey! If some illegals come in from Franch - ship them back there. EU law states that asylum seekers should claim in the first EU country they come to so the French have no come backs. As Britain is an Island there is absolutely NO way that an (genuine!) asylum seeker can get here legally - so there should be no problem right???
Dave
PS: FRanch was just an example - it could have been any country!!!
10 March 2004, 07:57 AM
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I almost agree with Markus but would like to slightly change a few things:
Religious fanatics: don't like religious fanatics of any denomination and that includes white, British christians as well
Normal, moderate religion is fine, but worryingly violent or extreme views need kicking into touch.
Immigrants: yes, illegals should be shipped out and no one should be here as a benefit tourist but if you come here to work and add value to our society and are happy to intregrate into our society (while still maintaining your national identity) then your welcme here as far as I'm concerned.
Chavs: If you act like scum, you'll end up being treated like scum. Get a clue and have some self respect.
Religious fanatics: don't like religious fanatics of any denomination and that includes white, British christians as well
Normal, moderate religion is fine, but worryingly violent or extreme views need kicking into touch.Immigrants: yes, illegals should be shipped out and no one should be here as a benefit tourist but if you come here to work and add value to our society and are happy to intregrate into our society (while still maintaining your national identity) then your welcme here as far as I'm concerned.
Chavs: If you act like scum, you'll end up being treated like scum. Get a clue and have some self respect.
10 March 2004, 09:16 AM
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as mentioned previously, you represent a very large 'silent majority' pity there seems no constructive rational and morally acceptable political party in this country to represent these views.
10 March 2004, 09:39 AM
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Wholeheartedly agree with the first 2 points. I pretty much agree with the third one as well, but the Brits are well known for trying to create 'little Englands' wherever they go, so I think that's just natural.
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10 March 2004, 09:49 AM
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I was just about to make a similar point. Exhibit one, all the people that move to Spain and demand everything to be the same as England, but with sunshine. They make no effort to integrate into the local community.
We already have Asian etc communities in many cities and everyone seems to get on without too many problems.
The immigrant that killed the kid, that was a bad bit of business but the ****ed up British justice system is equally to blame for the soft sentance.
Too many Sun readers on this BBS methinks.
We already have Asian etc communities in many cities and everyone seems to get on without too many problems.
The immigrant that killed the kid, that was a bad bit of business but the ****ed up British justice system is equally to blame for the soft sentance.
Too many Sun readers on this BBS methinks.
10 March 2004, 09:54 AM
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Its very easy to just say "get out immigrants" or "go home" etc.
But what would do in their situation? Put yourself in there shoes for one minute! Think like someone who has been dealt a crappy hand in life!
Some of them had suffered terribly (more than we can imagine) and have escaped their country to try and better the life for their family, OK, some haven't suffered.......but can YOU tell them apart? If you can't how can the authorities?
But would 'we' not do exactly the same? If I was suffering and saw a bit of light at the end of the tunnel I am sure I would attemp to improve "my life".
Just what harm are these immigrants causing YOU? They live in your town, big deal!
Do you think your taxes will decrease if they "go home"? They won't!
Will you pay charities to stop them coming here? Nope!
But what would do in their situation? Put yourself in there shoes for one minute! Think like someone who has been dealt a crappy hand in life!
Some of them had suffered terribly (more than we can imagine) and have escaped their country to try and better the life for their family, OK, some haven't suffered.......but can YOU tell them apart? If you can't how can the authorities?
But would 'we' not do exactly the same? If I was suffering and saw a bit of light at the end of the tunnel I am sure I would attemp to improve "my life".
Just what harm are these immigrants causing YOU? They live in your town, big deal!
Do you think your taxes will decrease if they "go home"? They won't!
Will you pay charities to stop them coming here? Nope!
10 March 2004, 10:14 AM
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Markus
I would class you as normal - your views are entirely understandable given the constant propoganda that we are fed to make us think like this.
Here's what I think...
Illegal immigrants. I agree - if they are not meant to be here they should go home; there is no point in having a law that isn't enforced. But we should let a lot more immigrants come here and work legaly, contribute to the economy and thereby contribute to economic growth. There's an excellent article in the most recent edition of the economist (p.34), quoting research from UCL that supports this. So it's simple - remove the "illegal" badge and suddenly we have a load of cheap labour.... The cockle-pickers were doing a really unpleasant job, harvesting a resource that is then exported to Spain and France, so someone in the UK was bringing in foreign revenue. I'm all for this, although clearly it needs to be better regulated.
Religous Fundementalists - you're right but I don't see you offering a solution as you do with Illegal Immigrants. If it's banned, it's forced underground and then harder to monitor. I've yet to see a realistic solution being proposed by anyone. So what's the point in ranting about something that can't be changed? The only thing I can think of to remove their most powerful weapon (hatred) is to stop going around the world pi55ing off other countries....
You're pretty much spot-on with "ethnic-only" areas... although I didn't realise any of these existed? Maybe that's because I've never been invited to one.....
Anyway, nice thread, well articulated views and good to see we can all be grown-ups...
Cheers
Ollie
I would class you as normal - your views are entirely understandable given the constant propoganda that we are fed to make us think like this.
Here's what I think...
Illegal immigrants. I agree - if they are not meant to be here they should go home; there is no point in having a law that isn't enforced. But we should let a lot more immigrants come here and work legaly, contribute to the economy and thereby contribute to economic growth. There's an excellent article in the most recent edition of the economist (p.34), quoting research from UCL that supports this. So it's simple - remove the "illegal" badge and suddenly we have a load of cheap labour.... The cockle-pickers were doing a really unpleasant job, harvesting a resource that is then exported to Spain and France, so someone in the UK was bringing in foreign revenue. I'm all for this, although clearly it needs to be better regulated.
Religous Fundementalists - you're right but I don't see you offering a solution as you do with Illegal Immigrants. If it's banned, it's forced underground and then harder to monitor. I've yet to see a realistic solution being proposed by anyone. So what's the point in ranting about something that can't be changed? The only thing I can think of to remove their most powerful weapon (hatred) is to stop going around the world pi55ing off other countries....
You're pretty much spot-on with "ethnic-only" areas... although I didn't realise any of these existed? Maybe that's because I've never been invited to one.....
Anyway, nice thread, well articulated views and good to see we can all be grown-ups...
Cheers
Ollie