midget1500

an interesting sub-debate arose in this thread - http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=307905

so, i was always under the impression that if i drove a friends car using my policy (i.e. 3rd party only cover) to drive their car that their car must indeed be insured by them to some degree. others have differing views on this, so does anyone know for sure?

i.e. a friend buys a car, doesn't insure it, i can drive it under my policies clause that states i can drive any other car as long as it isn't rented etc and doesn't belong to me with 3rd party only cover?

cheers
steven

Tiggs

your cover surley states that the car must be insured elsewhere?

imlach

It DOES need to be insured by someone else. Don't believe Damien666!

DMC12

It was me who posted the idea of driving the car on someone elses insurance.

What imlach says makes sense, but I've check my schedule and policy in detail and at no point does it say that the car must be insured by someone else at the same time. The exact wording on the schedule is:

"The policyholder may also drive a motor car which he/she neither owns nor hires under a hire purchase agreement."

There are also notes that go into detail about it being 3rd party cover only i.e. no cover for loss or damage.

If imlach is right then I suspect a lot of people will be drivng without insurance under the beleive that thay are covered. If I get a moment I'll give them a ring and describe the suggested scenario and see what they say.

Thanks.

Steve.

imlach

I'll be absolutely astounded if I am incorrect.

It basically means that if I put my 2nd car (let's assume it is a banger) in my non-driving wife's name (ie, a 3rd party), then it does not require to be insured by anyone as I can drive it on my own insurance using this clause. Piffle.

This is simply not allowed, otherwise why would ANYONE in the UK get insurance on their 2nd car if they only required third party cover!

BuRR

Ring your insurance company. I did a short time ago, and was told that you can only drive other vehicles under the third party rule in times of "emergency" - ie) when there is no other reasonable means of resolving whatever situation arose... (if you understand that)

Otherwise, everyone would buy a clapped-out banger, insure it, and drive any kind of exotica on third party cover!


If the above doesn't make sense, then sorry, but I'm v tired

Da Booga

The vehicle will still need to be insured by someone to tax it every year though.

r32

Quite some years ago I was stopped by the Bill when driving some one elses car. I was given a producer and took my stuff down to the sty, my insurance was accepted, although the 'gent' wasnt happy pointing out that I was only covered third party, I told him I realised that. ............. but I checked my policy and it does not state any where that the vehicle has to be insured by any one else. Why should it its my insurance company who are covering it at that time?

dome

I'm with Privilege and I checked the small print of my policy, it doesn't mention anywhere that the other car has to be insured.

midget1500

good point da booga - needs to be taxed, therefore needs insurance!

Brendan Hughes

I think when you look at all the terms together you probably find that it's valid only for short periods of time. In the "wife" example, you are in fact the main driver of the car, so it should be insured in your name.

SiDHEaD

Most post offices not staffed by idiots will let you tax it from a temporary certificate. Just Temporary Additional Vehicle it for a week. Interestingly, one of the rules of TAV is that it ISNT insured under any other policy!

Andy

Pistol_Pete

Ive got a feeling that the certificate must have a full calender month on it or they wont issue the tax. Had mine refused for that a while back or maybe the counter clerk was just having a bad day.

My insurance company told me that the other car must have insurance on it for my insurance policy to cover me to drive it third party.

Hope this helps.

Dracoro

You could insure it, tax it then cancel the insurance.

Anyway, although not written in policy, I'm sure by law it needs to be insured directly if on public highways.

imlach

All too hazy. "Short period" is not a legal term. It's either ALL the time, or NONE at all

DMC12

Imlach is correct.

I've just spoken to my insurance company and described the situation described in the other thread. The vechicle in question DOES need to be insured by someone else in order for it to be driven third party under another policy.

I said that there was no wording in the schedule or policy documents to explain this to which operator I spoke to was unable to comment. I guess the wording should be something like:

"The policyholder may also drive a motor car which he/she neither owns nor hires under a hire purchase agreement, and is also covered by its own insurance."

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Steve.

SiDHEaD

They must have changed the PO rules recently, as I taxed a car on a 1 week TAV certificate a couple of years ago!

Andy

Hoppy

Where's Rum* when you need him?!

I can't believe that a car has to be effectively insured twice before you can drive it. I have third party cover on any vehicle and so long as that car is taxed, I can surely drive it. I am simply transfering limited cover from my policy to another vehicle, and given that I can't drive two cars at once, where's the problem?

I think the the key loop-hole will be filled in with some phrase like "main driver" thus preventing me from insuring a banger and then driving a Ferrari every day. But also, if you've got a nice car, would you be happy driving it for long on third party only?

Richard.

Brendan Hughes

DMC12 - I'd say the person on the phone is talking 100% pure horsesh!t.

I had 45 mins on the phone with Privilege, including them phoning me back twice over the next two hours, when I refused to accept that selling the car automatically terminated my insurance when there was no such clause written in the policy. No matter how much they insisted, I kept repeating the same question, "Where does it say that?" The House of Lords agreed with me in a case 3 mths before my phone call. My parting shot was "And if your underwriters don't agree with that, I suggest you get new underwriters." Eventually they backed down, but Joe Average would have accepted their position and lost. If they don't know how to draft a contract to say what they want, it's their problem, not yours. You abide by the terms of the contract, and so should they. Don't let pompous bluster beat you. Make a big enough noise, and next year you'll find the necessary words included in the contract. Which means they made a huge ****-up by not including it previously, and therefore you were right and they were wrong.


Imlach - short is not a legal term, but "reasonable" is, and it's just as vague. So let's say it's for a reasonably short period

Nick100

I think DVLA keeps a register of cars with/without insurance, and this is what the police number plate recognition system uses to highlight cars to be pulled.

If the car didn't have insurance you would get stopped often (which would be a nuisance), but you should still be able to produce your "third party cover for any vehicle" insurance document and be OK ? Maybe ??.

damian666

Just look at this Can of worms

The above is correct, a magistrate will decide what is reasonable.

For example. Putting my motorcycle in my wifes name so I can ride it TPO on the weekends, and I ride a C90 in the week would be quite illegal, as you are deliberately avoiding insurance. You are actually the owner/keeper even if your wife is registered as such. Its like the kids as 2nd driver situation.

Imlach, don't let yourself get shafted!

Nobody can do what you have suggested. Most policies that allow TPO cover on other cars do see it as emergency cover - like borrowing a mates car because yours has broken down. I can assure you that if they discovered that you regularly did this (like commuting in it!) then they would quite happily not pay out if you had an accident.

For the police however you might just get away with it.

A big claim would scupper any plans of anyones to wiggle out of not paying for insurance. As I have stated, I have thoroughly researched this, and taken full advantage once or twice!

Damian

DJNafey

Damian,

Are you saying that, as long as I don't get found out, I can insure my classic Mini at £250 a year and then sign my WRX over to my dad and save myself £1500 a year insuring that, choosing to drive it third-party on my Mini insurance?!

I've ALWAYS heard that you can only drive a car on TPO cover if it is insured seperately by someone else..........yet other people have found the same as me - most insurance policy documents don't say that at all !

damian666

Damian
edit: As long as you don't get found out, why not drive with no insurance? It saves all the hassle. Doing what you have said is illegal, and an insurance company (being not stupid) will find out.

SiDHEaD

How would they find out? (Genuinely asking not being a tit).

Andy

BuRR

Why doesn't everyone just ring their insurance company with this very question?

I did, (as I've mentioned above) and the answer i got was what damian666 is saying.

Dracoro

Do it! £15,000 grands worth of car that if you crash won't be covered (TP remember!) or if it gets stolen it won't be covered either!

kelvin

I happen to agree with Damian666 - this has always been my understanding of the "other car rule" and makes perfect sense IMO...

The clause is there as a convenience, not to be taken advantage of. There's never going to be a clear cut definition of what's permitted, and what's not - every scenario is likely to be different, and would be taken on the facts...

If you're not intentionally trying to take advantage of an insurance company, then I doubt you have anything to worry about...

Just my 2p worth

K.

Hoppy

Andy, how would they find out? Well, while everything's fine, they won't. But that's not why you buy insurance.

It's for when you put in a big claim which, God forbid, might include you hurting someone, or worse. That is not the time to discover that a bit of cheating is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Don't buy insurance because it's a legal necessity, buy it because it's bl00dy sensible!

Richard.

SiDHEaD

I'm still unclear as to how this one journey where u had an accident would mean that you drove it all the time??!!

Andy