NACRO

A good idea, but why didn't they legalise and tax it? Surely the govt could do with some more revenue streams rather than discouraging Cash ISA holders for example.

They are also wasting money with the "it's still illegal" campaign. If I was a stoner I'd now be smoking herb in the streets secure in the knowledge that it is now little more serious than a parking fine.

andrewdelvard

Not completely sure but I'd suggest it's partly to do with the lack up a suitable roadside test for people driving under the influence.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

I can see this being a big problem, sorry to offend anyone but smoking cannabis to me can only lead to other problems.
Cheers
Colin

DavidBrown

A bad case of the munchies ?

Dream Weaver

And a credit account at the local Spar

Anyone that thinks cannabis can "lead to harder dugs" etc doesnt know much about it.

Its no more harmful than having 4 pints of beer down the local.

NACRO

Less harmful than the alcohol actually- depending on how you ingest it.

My main concern over this is that people with mental problems are going to find it easier/cheaper to get hold of higher strength weed which could trigger off their disease.

Brendan Hughes

1. The downgrade only enters into force next Thursday, 29 Jan.

2. In practice, all that is happening is bringing the law into line with much police behaviour over the last few years.

3. The government can't legalise and tax it as a) they are bound by the 1988 UN Convention which forces them to criminalise possession for personal use, and pulling out of this Convention is something that no country could politically consider - most just sideline it quietly. And b) the political storm and pressure, particularly from the Americans, would be too much for the government to handle. Look at what's been happening in Canada for the last few months; they wanted to decriminalise small amounts of cannabis and the large neighbour to the south made very serious border closure noises, "in the interests of internal security".

Green Room

Just as well you're not a stoner than Nacro Cannabis is still illegal; will still carry the threat of a jail sentence for users, police can still arrest a person for smoking in public, repeatedly offending, if cannabis use has been linked to problems in a particular area, if you are cought in possession of cannabis near schools or other youth premises. Scooby99, just like alcohol and tobacco then

The Zohan

I struggle to grasp how it can be legal to smoke it but not to sell it. Surely to buy it you have to 'deal' with someone committing an offence and likely someone who is then by definition a criminal. Drugs are sulpied by the underworld and organised crime so to buy it you have to deal with these people, OK not the bosses but other far down the food chain. How is this sensible or a solution.

By keeping the dealing/supply illegal you keep the prices atificially high (no pun intended). But no money for government. It may free up the Police to do other things but if they go after the dealers and they stop then others will take their places ad infinitum.


The government should get off of the fence and sort it out either it is legal or it is not, it's a bit like being a bit pregnant, not possible you are or arn't.

Andrew raises a good point and maybe this is part of or the real reason.

I do not see cannabis as any more harmful than smoking or drinking, if you do it to excess then it can do you harm like **** or booze. Dope makes me sick BTW so i refrian from it.


Unlike the government to miss out on a serious revinue generating opportunity though, strange.

NACRO

Brendan has kindly furnished the thread with the answer to why it isn't legalised(which I was aware of), perhaps I should have used the word decriminalisation.

If we look to the Netherlands then we can see that through decriminalisation of cannabis they are able to get around the UN convention and tax the stuff, albeit indirectly. They also have more control over it than a wholly illegal distribution network. The Dutch get taxes from coffeshops (not on the drug they sell) and the quality of the product is more assured.

A problem which is largely ignored in this debate is quality. In the UK most supplies of cannabis are in the form of resin. This is mostly contaminated crap known popularly as soap bar. Containing henna, chemical hardeners and all kinds of crap, by mixing this stuff with tobacco users are compromising their health. At least in the dutch model many users eschew tobacco and are smoking a pure product. Surely a good thing for everyone?

The law as it stands is a mess in the UK.

[Edited by NACRO - 1/23/2004 9:25:39 AM]

RichWalk

Some good points here- it confuses the hell out of me how the Gov are handling this- only thing I can surmize is there must be some sort of 'fear factor' associated with todays drug culture? its obviously OK to have drunks yelling obscenities/ smashing up property and fighting but the thought of some chilled dreadhead wondering around in your fabricated Kent village is possibly and literally 'too close to home' At some point soon there will be nowhere left to hide in this country and the sanctimonious dicks who run it will have to open their eyes or run a Gov from abroad. IMHO of course!

[Edited by RichWalk - 1/23/2004 9:29:04 AM]

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

When I meant other problems I meant more violence, car crime etc
Colin

NACRO

How will more cannabis use lead to more violence? I can't see the link myself. Pot heads are the most demotivated, apathetic bunch going, even if they wanted to be violent I would be surprised if they could be bothered.

As for more car crime it isn't a drug of compulsive addiction like crack cocaine so I can hardly see users stealing to get hold of it. 99 I sometimes wonder if people making those types of comment have actually given any real thought to them, they seem so divorced from reality.

Edited due to the google link, when I last looked it was for hydroponic growing supplies

[Edited by NACRO - 1/23/2004 9:41:05 AM]

The Zohan

Just read Brendans post as well re decriminalsation and i undertsand the difference, fine as it is. I was not aware of the '88 UN ruling but i am now wiser.

Agree with NACRO re potheads and crime in general, more likely to be crack or heroin addicts.

If the lame (IMHO) excuse of cannabis leading to stronger drugs argument is valid then perhaps if users of dope did not have to come into contact with drug dealwer this would help, seems semsible to me

Hanslow

I thought cannabis had more tar in it than **** and that was one of the reasons they don't really want people to have it. Wouldn't know cos I don't use it meself. Plus there are cases of people with mental problems after using it for so long. That's not to say that they wouldn't have had the mental problems if they hadn't been smoking it though.

According to research it is supposed to affect your attention which is why it can become an issue when driving under the influence.

Personally I think they should stop people smoking anything whilst driving <bring it on > If you are not allowed to use a phone, you are not allowed to have a drink (non alcoholic) or even eat a mars bar whilst driving as you can be prosecuted for driving without undue care and attention, then what is so different about holding and putting a burning stick in your mouth?

I know I'll get flamed by the smoking brigade (pun not intended) but it does seem a bit hypocritical.

Still, if they brought in a nice disclaimer for Cannabis where if you smoke it you get no NHS treatment, and do the same for ****, then I'd be happy for them to legalise it

CheekyChimp

I grow my own, and am happier for it, what's more I agree that cannabis is no where near as awful as alcohol. The number of utter ******** shouting football chants, picking fights with the nightbus drivers and being ********* in general on an average friday is getting beyond a joke. Middle aged men seem to be the worst and seem to turn into schoolboys, they seem to hurl the most abuse and cause the majority of fights. Is it some way of making up for the inadequecy of their wasted youths or is it more to assert their (ahem) manhood to the world. You would never get a pothead acting this way. Plus there are no hangovers, no sleeping with total mingers you've mistaken for godesses and it doesn't make you think you can start a fight with the world. If those hardened Friday boozers were given a spliff each at closing, the country's town centres would be a much more pleasant place.

NACRO

Not everyone ingests cannabis through burning and inhaling it. To my mind that puts the arguments over smoking it on a weaker footing. Smoking it is effectively misusing the substance- it isn't harmful in itself.

Hanslow

True, my missus said it was supposed to be less harmful if eaten in cakes and stuff. Just ban the smokers, that's what I say

CheekyChimp

Ban the smokers from what? society? ban the pissheads, they're a lot more trouble. Oh and weed tastes lovely on garlic bread with a bit of cheese or in a stirfry. Oh and if anyone still smokes soap then try powdering it in a pestle and mortar and add it to your filter coffee or spongecakes.

Hanslow

Oh I agree Cheeky completely...ban the pi$$heads as well , and while we are at it, break up any group of lads/lasses out on the pi$$ Make it pleasant to go out at night again

Leslie

I think it is a retrograde step to lower standards by changing it to a class C drug. It is a dangerous substance and is likely to affect you mentally over time as well as containing far more carcinogens then tobacco.

The trouble is, this attitude will encourage young people to use it to bolster up their self confidence and to keep up with their peers. Whatever anyone says, it will lead many into using the harder drugs too. Far better to concentrate on good education of young people of the very real dangers of taking any drugs and the serious effects on their later lives.

I agree of course that alcohol and tobacco are also very bad for health when used to excess. Too easy to do unless you understand the dangers. I speak from experience, of smoking anyway!

Les

NACRO

quote: "It is a dangerous substance and is likely to affect you mentally over time as well as containing far more carcinogens then tobacco."

Two points there is no proof of your statement that it will affect you mentally over time, although people with a pre-disposition may find that it triggers their illness. Secondly if you don't smoke it then the tar/carcinogen issue is irrelevant, in any case when it is smoked the quantity is that much smaller, meaning less inhaled tar/carcinogens.

If you are going to comment at least try to keep it factual, otherwise it tends to lessen the credibility of your viewpoint.

TelBoy

I've never tried cannabis. Am i missing out?

Brendan Hughes

What gets the most confusing, whether in the new UK legislation, or the Dutch, it the difference between law and practice. The Dutch have NOT decriminalised cannabis. Possession of a small amount of cannabis in NL is a criminal offence. But they have a prosecutors' directive that says "don't bother with small amounts". It's very similar with the new UK legislation, except for two differences, one academic and one practical: the academic one is that you can be jailed in the UK but not NL, and the practical one is that NL also tolerate visible sales outlets.

The Portuguese, however, have decriminalised use and possession of ALL drugs. Mind, you still get stopped and have your gear confiscated by the police; it's just that instead of a criminal record you will be seen by a specialist tribunal who will ask all about your habit and give you a "parking ticket"-type fine or a recommendation for treatment. They worked out that it was cheaper than sending addicts to prison, where they just learned how to burgle more effectively when they came out. Belgium changed their law six months ago to give more lenient treatment to cannabis, again not being prosecuted but getting a small fine and a warning for non-problematic users, and Luxembourg in 2001 had something similar. France are now talking about it, but the Interior Minister does not seem sympathetic to the idea. Greece have cut the penalty for use from five years to one in prison. There are many signs to see that politicians want to spend less time processing cannabis criminals, who the judges don't want to send to jail anyway, and replace this with more effective, slap-on-the-wrist, instant penalties. On the other hand, there are signs that other European countries want to toughen up their acts.

There will be no unilateral withdrawal from the UN Convention, but when the countries got together last year in April to discuss UN progress on drugs control, there was a very distinct muttering in the background.

By the way, mildly amusing commentary here.

Brendan Hughes

.

[Edited by Brendan Hughes - 1/23/2004 11:21:23 AM]

CheekyChimp

Plus, being more lenient towards cannabis users will give police more time to clamp down on the sale of drugs that are ACTUALLY DANGEROUS! such as coke and heroin. When I was burgled a couple of years ago the coppers who came round my house and spotted my stash on the table (!!!) they told me that it was probably worth reading up on the medical facts of cannabis use and that they aint seen nothing. One of them even joked that they hadn't checked upstairs yet and the other replied that they probably weren't authorised to do a full search of the property. Anyway they shook hands with me and left (and also caught the burglar). So they're probably not alone in their opinion about cannabis. They have more important things to worry about.

NACRO

In answer to you question Tel, no you aren't missing anything. My advice as someone who has tried it would be don't bother. Same goes for drinking alcohol and tobacco.

SiPie

Total bollocks about it leading on to other drugs etc. but for the chap that always buys a wee quarter from his local dealer and when he arrives to get his deal, the dealer says there maybe is a slight chance.

However for those that LAUGHINGLY think it's harmless...

1) Carcenegenic (sp)

2) High tar content when burnt (dope or weed)

3) Proven links to pscychosis and anxiety related illness especially when smoked heavily and especially in men in their late teens early twenties, cannabis can often act as a trigger for these episodes. Some people react in very odd ways when they have a whitey and amazingly the damage can be irreprable Almost as severe as the after effects of bad acid when it sort of fries bits

4) You can't be assed doing anything (affects some like this but not others) and therefore lose any real ambition.

Just my 2p's worth

PS Did smoke it for 18 years so feel a bit qualified to comment

CheekyChimp

it's lovely tel, but you may feel a little sick if you have too much first time. It's kind of like the feeling you get on waking from a comfy bed you don't want to leave. Or the dizziness of a mild cold. You will feel lazy and hungry and have a greater appreciation of comedy but it's (suprisingly?!?) very mellow and perfect for the end of a busy day. Don't over do it and you'll be fine. Plus there are no comedowns, no gurning like on e's, you won't trip and won't have a hangover.

CheekyChimp

it's lovely tel, but you may feel a little sick if you have too much first time. It's kind of like the feeling you get on waking from a comfy bed you don't want to leave. Or the dizziness of a mild cold. You will feel lazy and hungry and have a greater appreciation of comedy but it's (suprisingly?!?) very mellow and perfect for the end of a busy day. Don't over do it and you'll be fine. Plus there are no comedowns, no gurning like on e's, you won't trip and won't have a hangover.