ARRON BIRD

On behalf of a friend who has a crap pc at home (ey Steve )
He got knobbled by one of those stupid safety camera vans doing 63 in a 40.
How much and how many points.
I wont even bother going on about speeding and the law and pikeys and all that!!!!!
Perhaps they should be out looking for my bike rather than doing this sort of rubbish.
The helicopter was up in St.Neots last night again.....
Mavis probably lost her dog!!!
Didnt bother putting it up to catch the pikeys with my bike sticking out of the back of their van tho hey!!!
Bet if my neighbour said they had a gun we would have got it back a ittle quicker!!!
The law is a joke in this Country.
Sorry just my view.
Real crime my ****!!

Mr.M

ACPO guidelines are:

4-5 points and up to £1000 fine.

If he had been going 65 then it would be a possible ban or 6 points.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps you would get more responses if you worded your post a little less childish...

I suppose doing 63mph in a 40 is not "stupid" then?

If you had any idea as to the cost of putting the helicopter up, then you would realise why it isn't airborne for every little crime that is reported to the police.

Do you have any idea how many cars and bikes are stolen in the UK each day? I imagine that you think that each individual theft should be designated its own personal helicopter until such times as it is recovered?

BTW, if the helicopter happens to be airborne for another reason, like searching for a missing child for example, then it can, and frequently does assist in detecting crimes like the one you mention.

Sub97

Have to agree with talizman. If he was doing 63 in a 40 then he deserves a fine and some points.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Give the guy a break.

...like we all keep to the speed limits all the time.!?!

Big Goon

Bollocks, I would rather the filth put crimes into proper perspective and caught burglars, muggers, druggies etc than hassle motorists.

ozzy

far from it, but I don't come on here moaning about it.

Personally, I've been stopped 3 times for speeding.

A9 - 110 in a 70 (average 99.78 over 4 miles) = 4 points + £280
M74 - 120 in a 70 (got let off with a bollocking)
A82 - 93 in a 60 (got let off with another bollocking since it was 3am)

If you break any law then you deserve what punishment they dish out, simple as that as far as I'm concerned. I'd maybe feel a bit sorry if he got done at 42 or 43, but 63 is taking the pi$$ IMHO.

Stefan

ARRON BIRD

Look Talizman the whole road safety camera thing is a complete joke and you know it.
Perhaps its ok the put up stupid 50mph signs everywhere on dual carriagways then yeah.
No accidents have ever happened at the stretches of roads where I see these road cash point machine vans.
Total tosh and you know it.
The law is a joke.
The helicopter is up about 4 times a week in my area and our crime rate is very low.
Yes maybe there had been a fatal crash on the by-pass last night or something maybe but I doubt it very much.

I have two good friends of mine who are coppers and I am sad to say that they tend to agree with me more than you on most subject nowadays. How do I know that the 4!!!yes 4 traffic coppers it took to give me a very worthwhile £30 fine for having a 5X4 number plate on my now missing bike two weeks ago told the pikeys what was in my garage?Look how many honest coppers there are nowadays!!
The speeding thing alone is just a way of making easy money and wasting tax payers time and money.
It hasnt help cut road deaths or accidents and the real figures are now becomming to aware and the general public is fed up with it.
Steve was doing 64 in a 40 yes.
irresponsible no?.
Do you know the stretch of road?.
No so dont commenet.
Its now 40 so that the cash point machine van can nick almost everybody as that particular stretch of road was fine at 60.
I got a two week ban on the A1.
85 in a 50.
Yes 85 is speeding and I accept that but 50 on the bloody A1????
Whats the **** is that all about.Is it was down to me I would raise the speed limit on dual carriagways to at least 90 as most people do that anyway and 70 on open roads.
I DO however garee very strongly that speed limits should all be 30 in built up ares but to me that is Towns etc.
Has it cut down the road traffic accidents...?????nope.
Does speed constitute to more road deaths???
Nope.
Perhaps more police time should be spent on bad driving and catching REAL criminals insted of making a fast buck!!
I`m getting off my soap box now as this whole subject frustrates me beyond belief.
If I had come out of my house as my bike was getting nicked by two pikeys with a few mates...give them a kicking what would have happened than huh!!
The pikeys would prosecute me.
reat justice that.
Total tosh.

[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 1/6/2004 3:03:45 PM]

Redkop

Arron this subject has been done to death over the last few weeks and is becoming boring. You can't blame the police for doing their job, you have to blame the judicial system in this country and the government.

It's time these anti-police threads are put to bed as it's going over the same old stuff time and time again.

ARRON BIRD

I do agree Redkop totally and I appologise.
Not the right place.Just very frustrating subject.

Redkop

Cheers Arron and thank you

tiggers

Redkop,

The reason it's been done to death recently is that we the motoring public are fed up with it - maybe it's not entirely policing policy that's at fault, but some of the blame does lie with this.

Are we now trying to brush this under the carpet as if it doesn't exist?

Please note that I am not having a go at the average police officer going about their job, the problem is with the policy not the individuals.

tiggers.

Chip

Half the trouble with this country now is that people just accept things and do nothing about what they dont like.

By discussing, demonstrating, petitions etc you can get things done.
To sit back and do nothing is not the answer.

Chip.

lmsbman

The moaning I can live with as everyone is entitled to an opinion.

But is out of order. Have you got any evidence to support this sweeping statement?

ARRON BIRD

Tiggers the copper who came round my house when my bike was stolen agreed with me.
I feel sorry for the avaerage copper on the beat.
Its traffic that I cant stand!!

ARRON BIRD

Look at the news mate.


[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 1/6/2004 4:28:10 PM]

ARRON BIRD

I`m not even going there!!!!

hedgehog

There are now a range of effective defences against conviction by the automated policing devices. In view of the situation I would suggest that you and your mate look into these defences. In the first instance you should instruct him to keep all communications from the Partnership, including the envelope. He should, also, not enter into any communication until he is sure of the route he will take and it may be worth his while to get a solicitor who knows about traffic law.

If you are upset by the police and the system then one way to register your upset is to fight back and now that there are a range of legal options, with a reasonable chance of success, open to your mate it is down to him to get on with it.

I saw a rough calculation recently which indicated that, in one county alone, there may be 9,000 motorists defending their cases using the options open to them. I've no idea if this calculation is true as the partnerships are not going to confirm how many people are fighting them in case it gives encouragement to more. However, a lot of people are fighting the system in the same way people fought for many of their rights and now your mate can join in.

DRUNKNORGY

Apathy rules in the UK, When there are serving police on SN who also are modding, I see a pattern of censorship forming in the moderation . Personal insults I agree are out of order, but the police and the legislators work with a very heavy hand in this country - Remember that when you lock this thread

MooseRacer

Probably a fine and 6 points.

A bit silly to be doing 63 in a 40 so just take the punishment and accept the error.

There are plenty of speed limits that we all think are set too low. If you choose to ignore them then you run the risk of getting caught. Simple really.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Arron,

To reply to a couple of your points....

Before I start... for the record, I am not in any way affiliated to Traffic police.

I have to agree with imsbman, in that your sweeping generalisation questioning the integrity of individuals that you know nothing about is nothing but OUT OF ORDER.
As for your "look at the news mate"....
Is this your attempt at backing up your scandalous allegation?

Your opinion, to which you are entitled. If you have a problem with it remember that it is local councils and not the police who erect and control the speed cameras, and indeed who benefit from the revenue, so if you feel the need to complain, do so to them instead of taking the easy option and slating the people who are forced to operate them as part of their job!


I think you'll find that the figures speak for themselves, so I need say no more on this topic.


I'm afraid the answer is a resounding "YES".... 60% OVER the speed limit... I call it irresponsible.



What relevance has this?
60% over the speed limit is 60% over the speed limit.



Why am I not surprised? (70% OVER )



The MOST ridiculous statement you have made so far.



I suppose that you think that the revenue from fines goes into the police kitty? lol
Filling up the Police overtime budget?
You probably also think that the cop who catches the most speeders get bonuses!
In fact this is obviously why so many coppers can afford to drive nice cars, like my STI 8's! Nothing to do with the fact that I work long hard hours trying to do a good job....

lol

Your scenario is unfortunately quite accurate...
The theives would be charged with theft of your bike, whilst you would end up being charged with the more serious crime of assault/serious assault/gbh/murder etc etc... where do you draw the line.
This is the fault of the british justice system and not the police as you seem to think....

Couldn't have put it better myself!

tiggers

talizman,

Firstly where are these figures and where are they published. Seems a fair question as you are asking Arron to back up his 'honest coppers' statement with documentary evidence hence I am asking you to back up your claim the same way.

Thing is has it ever ocurred to you that just maybe these figures (if they can be found) are manufactured to suit a purpose. Just possibly car design and improved road/crossing design will result in a lower number of road deaths with or without speed cameras and detection vans etc. How do you explain County Durham which sees the same trends as other counties, but has virtually none of the new speed detection technology? If your not a traffic office why do you too appear to have undergone the brainwashing program?

That is also a very interesting statement to hear from a police officer. If it is as simple as that and the road etc. has no relevance why is there not a simple standard rigid table of points/fines for being caught at certain percentages over the posted limit. Why can two incidents of 60% over a 40 limit yield two completely different levels of points/fines? Maybe because things such as the conditions and the road are taken into account - I don't know - you tell me!

I'm not just trying to pick a fight, I'm just interested to hear how you arrive at these what to me seem to be somewhat naive views.

regards,

tiggers.

ARRON BIRD

I suggest you get yourself a copy of Motorcyclenews today.
the speeding issue is covered quite nicely in there
But its all bound to be lies right
I do understand that the police are only doing as instructed but at the end of the day wouldnt it be nice if they all followed the same procedures ALL of the time and there was none of this "officers descretion" rubbish.
Seems to me they do whatever they want most of the time.
Talizman you need to wake up and smell the roses mate.
There was a very high profile case only last year which uncovered a huge can of worms and I think you know which one I mean.
I believe members of the police force that we the tax payers trust are still being arrested now!!!
Great huh.
Let this be the end of this thread now please.
I started it so I`ll finnish it as it go`s nowhere.

tiggers

Fair enough Arron!

Regards,

tiggers.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Tiggers,

If you want data, contact the Road Safety Officer for the council covering the area that you want info/figures on.
Not exactly hard to come by.....

With regards to the 60% comment.

My point is simple and has no underlying tones, in that 60%over is 60% over.

I never said that 60% over was dangerous, nor did I say that 60% over is NOT dangerous.
As usual it seems that statements are being taken and twisted and thus mis-interpreted.
You are reading far too much into it.

If a road has a speed limit, which is visibly posted, and you break the limit by 60%, you must accept that you have committed an offence surely?
You knew the limit. You have a speedo in your car so you knew how fast you were going. You know the consequences. What is the problem?

I agree that speeding in not dangerous under CERTAIN circumstances.

For example, I personally, don't think that 70mph is a sufficient limit on motorways, but there is little I can do about it so I accept it! This is my opinion and not a police opinion I might add.

A guy driving an NSX was clocked at 140mph on a deserted motorway in the middle of a summers night. He was charged with speeding (obviously) and dangerous driving.
He was convicted of speeding and aquitted on dangerous driving as they deemed it to be not dangerous in all the circumstances. (i.e. experience of driver, ability of vehicle, road conditions, traffic conditions, weather conditions)

This proves that speed does not necessarily mean danger.

BUT, 63mph in a 40mph limit, when many 40's are built up areas, IS dangerous.

BTW,
If you knew me, you would know how far from the truth that is! If you wish to contact me by email, I'll explain further.

Naive views? Factual I call them.

I could call you bitter, but we've already been there!

Arron,

I will not be buying a copy of the Motorcycle news, simply because I am straight!

Trust me, I am fully awake, but its coffee I smell, not roses... Am I doing something wrong?

As for the "huge can of worms" you mention...

Lets all be adult enought to realise that sweeping generalisations are completely inaccurate and indeed childish.
Individuals will always commit acts that aren't right, but that doesn't mean that everyone should be tarred with the same brush does it?

tiggers

talizman,

Which bit of this statement did you not understand?

Much as I would like to continue the debate Arron wanted this thread to finish and from your statements in this and other threads I fear you and I are far too far apart on this to make any further debate worthwhile anyway.

So let's just leave it eh?

All the best tiggers.

Spoon

Talizman-In essence that statement has to be correct but the issue is really whether or not the speed limit on a certain stretch of road is an indictment or not.

In the main 40MPH dual carraigeways are nothing short of a joke.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

As much as it gets on my goat to agree with you tiggers

Here here!

W9GTR

Right........now I will have my say, a bit belated, but my PC has been up the creek.
I am the individual concerned. I do not need anyone on here pontificating about my supidity and that I deserve everything I get [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] I am a responsible driver who untill the last 12 months has had a clean licence and not one accident in 15 years of driving and now two prosecutions in a year. What does this tell me???......It tells me that the law is not targeting dangerous driving in the correct manner and that Birdy is right in his cynical views. Where are the "safety camera" teams on a Friday night in St. Neots high street to nab all the barry boys hooning through through a built up area at 70mph or more [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
They have been set up with one purpose in mind, to pick the pockets of ordinary law abiding citisens whos only crime in my case was missing a speed limit sign.
The road where I was mugged has only just been signed as a 40 apparantly, I am pi55ed off with myself for missing it, but the only reason I can see for a safety camera van to sit there is to profit form the ambiguous nature of this stretch of road.It looks and drives exactly like the rest of the road which is national limit. There is no history of it being an accident black spot, it is not a built up area, ther aren't even any side junctions. There is a villiage further on which is signed as 40 and has been for years which I accept and adhere too, surely if it was our "safety" that they were concerned with they would set up their cameras through the village not on the 1/2 mile stretch of road that preceeds it.
I am not having a go at coppers as they are enforcing the law not making it and I do not for one minute think that a police officer would have even pulled me in the first place.
There I feel better now
Steve

Jye

<rant mode>

Bollox to the pc 'obey the limits and you wont get done’ utter hypocrites on SN, this is primarily a forum for car enthusiast. Subjects like this while done to death and boring (for some) wont go away by sticking your head in the sand, or up your ****, where some of the 'I never speed in my performance car' brigade obviously have them.

So bend over and take it if you want but some of us still want to down fighting, or ranting

<rant mode>