mj

ok,

I would be interested in your opinions....


Last year I helped a mate do his house up, in brief I spent the bulk of my free time helping him and advising him, and also most of my tools etc were at his house during the work...you get the drift. From buying to selling took about 10-12 months, I helped him most of this time.

Now, as soon as the paint was dry he put it on the market, I made it clear to him that I was a bit dissapointed as I had put so much work in - thought I was doing a mate a favour & all that...

After decucting what he had spent on the house & what it cost him he made 36K on the deal - not bad eh?

My treat for this? - £200. ( he also helped me do my garden, but by comparison the work he did for me was nothing compared to my input to his house, also there is nothing he can do that I can't if you know what I mean.. )

Now the hard bit...he has another house that is fast heading the way the last one did, i.e, demolish the interior & start again. Trouble is he now relies on me to show him how to do it,lend him tools, sort out cheap materials, and help him in the 2 man jobs, though this time he has said he will pay me the princley sum of £30 a day for my troubles

I don't want to fall out with him as a mate but am stuck between 2 rocks...

do I tell him he owes me some brass for the last house..?

or refuse to do any more cheapies unless he pays the going rate..?


There is also another point... he doesent ask if I will help him do something, its more like tells me, then spits the dummy out if I have other commitments. I feel a bit used to be honest. I don't think he has deliberatly fcuked me over, but I can't help thinking he has come up smelling of roses from my hard graft....





Your suggestion or comments welcomed..


ta,

mike.

imlach

He's deffo taking advantage...

If he's a mate, he'll understand.....he's not your lover!!
People will take advantage if you let them.....just say no and let him get on with it. He'll soon come running

unclebuck

When I did my last place in Bristol I relied heavily on an old mate for advice, help, tools and stuff. However, although all of the (valuable) advice was free, I paid him 75 quid a day (still a fair bit less than he normally charges) when he was on site, and gradually built up my tool collection during the course of the project.

Put your foot down and make it clear that although you are mates it is basically a business deal, and he will need to pay you what you are worth for the skills you bring in. Also, encourage him to buy his own tools. He can afford them now, after all.

UB

ajm

tell him you thought the first house was a one-off for a mate and that it had turned out much more work than you initially anticipated and if there is going to be more then you will do him mates rates @ £whatever because your spare time is worth more than £30 quid a day! Its only reasonable!

Its best to get these things sorted up front to save misery later. One house could be a mate helping a mate... more than that it sounds more like it should be more towards a business arrangement!

af

Ahh... I know this one!!!

You need to let him know that if you are helping him out with the odd job here & there, then beer = payment.

If he's getting you to do work he'd have to be paying tradesmen serious money for, he needs to know up front that:

a) You'll do the work for him, BUT...
b) It'll cost him a pre-agreed rate

Make sure you discus £££ upfront - It's even more awkward afterwards... Trust me!

Chip

Tell him if he's in it to make money again then if your going to put in a lot of work then he'll have to split the profit 50/50 with you. If he refuses then just tell him your not going to help him as you feel he mislead you last time.

Chip.

yoza

Tell him that you demonstrated how it was done last time, and you dont like repeating yourself.

Also tell him that all your tools have been knicked, and is there any chance you can borrow the new ones he is going to buy.

Its a bit like a 'mate' buying a car thats fcuked, and him not knowing how to even pop the bonnet. Then turning up at your house and asking you to re-build the engine. On doing so he sells it at a massive profit, and buys you a pint!

Mate or no mate, tell him how it is!

PS. Fancy doing some house re-generation work for me, go on, Ill give you a couple of quid....

Markus

Personally I'd say he's taking advantage, especially as he is telling you to do stuff, and not asking, and doing his best spoilt brat impression when you're enjoying your life and not helping him.

It is a tricky situation. If I was in the same position I'd tell the chap that I've got a lot of my own stuff coming up and so won't be able to help out, and if he then demands you help him, say that it'll cost him a heck of a lot more, as you'll have to cancel things, etc..., if he pays the heck of a lot more, then sweet, if not, well, he'll have to get someone else to help.

Gridlock Mikey

Dodgy one,

Me, I'd tell him over a couple of beers exactly what you've posted and then see what happens. If he's a good mate, he'll sort you out, If he's a blagger he'll spit his dummy and your best off keeping him as a drinkin' buddy

Mikey

Luke

You need to smell the coffee....

mj

...exactly, hence the post, pain in the **** & I'm a bit sick with it.

I'm all for people making money, but 200 quid doesn't even fall into the category of a token gesture. I recokon I contributed to 25% of the work that went into the house...thats just the full days, the "pop for a look" visits - say 3 a week get forgotten..

so 36K profit, say ( on the high side ) that £16K was the money that property went up anyway..

That leaves 20K PROFIT! my £200 is 1%

whats a fair amount ?

mj

LMAO @ luke, not very constructive but...

andrewdelvard

You sound like an alright sort of fella mj. Unfortunately £200 for all the support you offered him is a mockery of your so called friendship. Don't let mates take the ****. You get no respect for it and at the end of the day are just seen as a mug.
Learn a lesson from this and don't let it happen again.

Luke

Thanks MJ

It was a friendly remark with no hidden anti pikey gay agenda etc. It might offend some .... maybe I should point out .I did not mention if the coffee was black or white....And if you take suger thats your look out.... (It could make you fat..Then we have to have a diet thread and the Ghost of Turbo kitty comes back and turns this place into "ground Zero"!!!)



Love your fellow scoobynet member. In any way you wish .. (To keep it all PC)

mj

Luke,

whaich brand of coffee should I be smelling? ... Is it colombian

How much have you smelt/smelled (sp?) tonight ?

Luke

I only drink none branded coffee. Its unfair to discriminate against lets say a "kenyan or turkish blend"
We are no longer able to make our own choice..

fatherpierre

Come straight to the point and tell him how you feel.

No point in fooking about and letting it all boil up inside you.

A true mate will appreciate your honesty. But, a true mate wouldn't have taken the **** in the 1st place.........

DemonDave

iTrader: (13)

mike

... what mate ... the fact that you are having to ask this question tells me that he aint a mate unless he has made an honest mistake. If I had made £20k on something that somebody had helped me 25% towards I would look to £1k to £2k and also asking if this was ok ... Now he may have the money tied up in the new house but he could make you a better offer like a percentage cut of the next profit

You know him, you have to decide is he being naive or is he taken the p!55 and how much of a mate he is.

Dave

DemonDave

iTrader: (13)

actually rereading your post, if he doesn't like your commitments and doesn't ask he is taking the urine.

Dave.

Pistol_Pete

I would print out this thread and show it to him. Maybe you should suggest that in the future you buy a house between you and do it up and split the profits.

For this house Id say either agree upon an agreeable daily rate for yourself or agree on a percentage of any profit for your involvement.
If he agrees to niether then he isnt a friend, especially after his last profit and what he thought your services were worth.

Good luck with it.

Pistol_Pete

Out of interest. What did he buy it for and what were his costs ?

fatherpierre

If I had roped in a mate to help me out and he'd have given the level of help, etc. that you report as giving, then I would have bunged my mate about £4k - £5k if I'd have taken £20k in profit.

I think you've been taken for a mug, to be honest.

ariel

I wonder if your "mate" would help you on a project for £200.
Had my mate help me with a kitchen over a wekend and I was happy to give him £150 for his help.

paulr

MJ.........on the first house unless you made some business arrangement at the beginning,and the impression you gave was that you were helping out a mate,then really you're not entitled to anything.....except maybe a huge thanks and a favour "in the bank".

The second house is a different proposition because obviously you're now not so keen.If it was me i'd say to him lets do this as a business arrangement.50/50 on the time and money to fix it up and 50/50 on the profit or loss at the end.
If he doesnt want to just tell him you dont have the time.

paulr

MJ,why did you help him out so much on the first house anyway.There's not many people who'd help out a mate to such an extent as that.

(Not intended as a criticism btw)

ADP

sounds like hes taking you for a ride........personally, though annoying it maybe Id put the first one down to experience, but tell him your up for doing the second one, but only at an agreed fee, you cant expect to take half the proffit as hes the one whos bought the house and taken the financial risk..........but you should expect to be paid well for your time, especially as hes "up" already on his house dealings.

forgot to mention, this happend to a mate of mine, his mate didnt even take him out for a slap up meal!!! he was way pissed off and they arent talking any more

[Edited by ADP - 1/6/2004 8:54:59 AM]

Luke

When a friend says

"I need a hand"
"I need to borrow money"
"You have a nice lady"



Let the alarm bells ring.....

Dream Weaver

Agree a price before you do the work, and get him to pay you as you work.

From reading your post he is taking the ****.

Just cos your mates doesnt mean he can take advantage - it also doesnt mean you cant have business agreements in place.

mj

to answer a couple of questions:

house bought for 62K
Estimated 10K spent on refurb
sold for 108K


The reason I gave him so much help was that I considered him a good mate at the time ( and still do - pending tonghts discusions )
Sad as it sounds I quite enjoy the work - when it suits me of course, at the time it suited me as I was inbetween houses myself and could spare the time.

Its also important to point out that he is not a property developer of any kind - when he bought the first house he bought it to live in, not to sell. However, like I say, as soon as the last coat of paint was dry I think the old pound signs in the eyes appeared and he decided to sell. This was not what I expected when I helped do the work - I helped him to save him a few quid - not so he could make a packet out of the deal.

He maintains this new house is for him to live in, but I have heard that before

In a nutshell, had I been aware the house was a get rich quick scheme I would have not been so involved - at least not for free.

I suppose the cynics amongst you may say he has done well and this is just sour grapes, think whatever, but from my point of view its not nice being told you are a mug ( or as Luke quite rightly said- waking up& smelling the coffee )


Thanks very much for your input people, its much apreciated, I didn't really have anyone else to ask as the situation is a bit close to home, all part of the same social circle etc.

Luke

I suppose the cynics amongst you may say he has done well and this is just sour grapes, think whatever, but from my point of view its not nice being told you are a mug ( or as Luke quite rightly said- waking up& smelling the coffee )
---------------------------------------------------------------

Again ..I do stress no offence was ment!!!!!


Ps: No Coffee was Hurt during the making of that post.