Pre-nuptual agreements
05 January 2004, 01:44 PM
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I'm getting married this year and have discussed with my fiancee the drawing up of a pre-nuptual agreement. Before everyone wades in with comments regarding our love and commitment to each other, which have never been in doubt, please read below.
We are both 31 and have been living together in my house for 3 years. My fiancee doesn't have any significant material assets to bring to the marriage, I on the otherhand do. I am not in the slightest bit concerned about the house, contents, cars or cash at bank for that matter. If things did turn sour in the future leading to divorce, I would certainly not begrudge her entitlement to half of the above, especially as we will be buying a bigger house later in the year on a joint mortgage.
My problem is concerning my business which I inherited from a family member who started it from scratch back in 1974. I have worked for the business since 1989 and became a director in 1999. I am now the sole director and major shareholder of the business which is growing nicely and is a great passion of mine. I feel that I owe it to my family member, who I care for dearly, and to myself, to preserve the financial state of the Company for the future. To this end, I have suggested to my Fiancee that we isolate the Company in a pre-nuptual agreement whereby, if our relationship ended in divorce, the Company would be exempt from the distribution of assets. Thus, the Company would remain mine. She is totally in agreement with this as a) she knows and loves the family member concerned and b) can see how much time and effort I put into the business and what it means to me.
I understand that the pre-nuptual agreement is still not legally accepted in the UK divorce court but given the circumstances detailed above can anyone see a problem with this? I take it that I simply get something drawn up by a solicitor and signed by both myself and my fiancee prior to the marriage.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
We are both 31 and have been living together in my house for 3 years. My fiancee doesn't have any significant material assets to bring to the marriage, I on the otherhand do. I am not in the slightest bit concerned about the house, contents, cars or cash at bank for that matter. If things did turn sour in the future leading to divorce, I would certainly not begrudge her entitlement to half of the above, especially as we will be buying a bigger house later in the year on a joint mortgage.
My problem is concerning my business which I inherited from a family member who started it from scratch back in 1974. I have worked for the business since 1989 and became a director in 1999. I am now the sole director and major shareholder of the business which is growing nicely and is a great passion of mine. I feel that I owe it to my family member, who I care for dearly, and to myself, to preserve the financial state of the Company for the future. To this end, I have suggested to my Fiancee that we isolate the Company in a pre-nuptual agreement whereby, if our relationship ended in divorce, the Company would be exempt from the distribution of assets. Thus, the Company would remain mine. She is totally in agreement with this as a) she knows and loves the family member concerned and b) can see how much time and effort I put into the business and what it means to me.
I understand that the pre-nuptual agreement is still not legally accepted in the UK divorce court but given the circumstances detailed above can anyone see a problem with this? I take it that I simply get something drawn up by a solicitor and signed by both myself and my fiancee prior to the marriage.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
05 January 2004, 02:08 PM
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Whats the point? You know that its not gonna be legally binding? Another of them "women's rights" stuff that screws with men in the @ss. I thought they wanted equal rights??
05 January 2004, 02:17 PM
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Luke, and you sound like a moron.
Katana,
Although not legal, if both parties have signed and consented to the pre-nuptual, I would have thought that this would carry at least some weight in a judges decision.
Katana,
Although not legal, if both parties have signed and consented to the pre-nuptual, I would have thought that this would carry at least some weight in a judges decision.
05 January 2004, 02:25 PM
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Gotta be better than not signing anything at all.
There was a millionaire guy who did the same, it got nasty however a judge saw sight of the agreement (which must also state both parties have taken separate legal advice and understood it) and agreed that the pre-nup was fair to both parties concerned and upheld it!
There was a millionaire guy who did the same, it got nasty however a judge saw sight of the agreement (which must also state both parties have taken separate legal advice and understood it) and agreed that the pre-nup was fair to both parties concerned and upheld it!
05 January 2004, 02:27 PM
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sounds like a minefield IMO. In the event of divorce, you might be able to prevent her from getting her hands on shares, but her breif would certainly want the material value of the shares to be taken into consideration n the distribution of the assets. i.e. she gets the whole house in lieu of the value of the shares. better divorce her first to be on the safe side!
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05 January 2004, 02:30 PM
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Biggins nope a solicitor will tear whacking great holes in that agreement, if its not legaly binding under divorce law then what is the point? You might as well just have a verbal agreement and save on the solicitors bills!
However the only thing to do hear is contact a family law specialist and discuss it with them and get an expert opinion on what can be drawn up, if anything.
However the only thing to do hear is contact a family law specialist and discuss it with them and get an expert opinion on what can be drawn up, if anything.
05 January 2004, 02:39 PM
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the ONLY advice u should listen to from here is - contact a fully qualified solicitor who will be able to advise you FOR SURE.
from what i understand (and i'm not a solicitor), in the uk, pre-nups are not legally binding. they MAY be considered by the court, but if circumstances have changed (e.g. you have children since the pre-nup), it may well be totally ignored. at the end of the day, in this country, if u divorce and she decides she wants some of your business, she may be entitled. also in this country, things are done on a needs basis, not a "share of the pot" type basis... so if the courts deem she needs more than 50% (again, consider you may have kids), they will give it to her. please do contact solicitors and perhaps the citizen's advice bureau also.
good luck with your marriage tho.
from what i understand (and i'm not a solicitor), in the uk, pre-nups are not legally binding. they MAY be considered by the court, but if circumstances have changed (e.g. you have children since the pre-nup), it may well be totally ignored. at the end of the day, in this country, if u divorce and she decides she wants some of your business, she may be entitled. also in this country, things are done on a needs basis, not a "share of the pot" type basis... so if the courts deem she needs more than 50% (again, consider you may have kids), they will give it to her. please do contact solicitors and perhaps the citizen's advice bureau also.
good luck with your marriage tho.
05 January 2004, 02:46 PM
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It's a long time since since I've looked at stuff like this, but a discretionary trust might be worth considering. You could pass your shareholding over to the trust, who would then decide who the beneficiaries would be. (Which would be down to their jurisdiction and therefore could be anything/one !)
These can work OK if you can obtain trustess that won't milk it, and will wind the trust up rather than let it drag on for generations, when it'll get v messy.
D
These can work OK if you can obtain trustess that won't milk it, and will wind the trust up rather than let it drag on for generations, when it'll get v messy.
D
05 January 2004, 02:52 PM
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one problem with the trust thing is that i imagine Biggins takes advantage of the lower taxation of dividends over salary, and thus rewards himslef by paying regular dividends that do not attract NI contributions etc. If he ties up his shareholding, this option becomes more difficult, or maybe impossible...
05 January 2004, 03:26 PM
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Yep, sadly women have fought against equality so succesfully, that infact the balance is now heavily tipped in their favour.
Good resource for men
http://www.ukmm.org.uk
Good resource for men
http://www.ukmm.org.uk
05 January 2004, 03:32 PM
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From this URL : http://www.ukmm.org.uk/issues/synopsis.htm
At present 75% of all divorces are called for by wives. The Emperor's New Clothes survey of divorce men found that a man pays £29,306 to his lawyers and transfers £57,966 to his wife of which she then pays £20,000 to her lawyers. Thus lawyers benefit by £49,306 on average per divorce.
If a man takes the step of marrying and has children:
He has a 50/50 chance of: divorcing, losing custody of his children and paying £87,272 (avg)
He will have a 1 in 3 chance of losing his home
He will have a 1 in 10 chance of loosing contact with his children for ever
If a women takes the step of marrying and has children:
It is almost certain she will keep her children
She will also have a 1 in 3 chance of losing her home
Have a 50/50 chance she will benefit by £37,966 (avg)
Family courts have a powerful default of awarding custody to the mothers in 91% of the cases. This is regardless of the mothers conduct, or of her ability to support and care for the children
Also, if there's a Minister for Women, why isn't there a Minister for Men ?
[Edited by DavidBrown - 1/5/2004 3:33:51 PM]
At present 75% of all divorces are called for by wives. The Emperor's New Clothes survey of divorce men found that a man pays £29,306 to his lawyers and transfers £57,966 to his wife of which she then pays £20,000 to her lawyers. Thus lawyers benefit by £49,306 on average per divorce.
If a man takes the step of marrying and has children:
He has a 50/50 chance of: divorcing, losing custody of his children and paying £87,272 (avg)
He will have a 1 in 3 chance of losing his home
He will have a 1 in 10 chance of loosing contact with his children for ever
If a women takes the step of marrying and has children:
It is almost certain she will keep her children
She will also have a 1 in 3 chance of losing her home
Have a 50/50 chance she will benefit by £37,966 (avg)
Family courts have a powerful default of awarding custody to the mothers in 91% of the cases. This is regardless of the mothers conduct, or of her ability to support and care for the children
Also, if there's a Minister for Women, why isn't there a Minister for Men ?
[Edited by DavidBrown - 1/5/2004 3:33:51 PM]
05 January 2004, 03:50 PM
#22
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Biggins,
If the pre-nup doesn't work out, consider wearing fancy dress and climbing a tall structure - industrial cranes are popular at the mo
If the pre-nup doesn't work out, consider wearing fancy dress and climbing a tall structure - industrial cranes are popular at the mo
05 January 2004, 04:38 PM
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And people say I'm bitter when I say I would rather pay for sex than have a relationship and get married. Then find it goes pear shaped. And be even more financially and emotionaly stuffed than at present.
I have seen tooooo many relationships go t!ts up in the last few years for me to want to risk it.
I'm single and probably will be when I die.
I have seen tooooo many relationships go t!ts up in the last few years for me to want to risk it.
I'm single and probably will be when I die.
05 January 2004, 07:35 PM
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pre nuptual agreement is worthless and a waste of money.
If you are that concerned then don't get married. Its a mistake I won't be making again! Of course she is happy to sign an agreement, its a lottery win for her and a butt f*cking for you with sand for lubricant!
If you are that concerned then don't get married. Its a mistake I won't be making again! Of course she is happy to sign an agreement, its a lottery win for her and a butt f*cking for you with sand for lubricant!
05 January 2004, 11:29 PM
#25
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Her word not only stands for more but also costs less than this worthless bit of paper.
Seek advice but you must have a gut feeling about this? There doesn't appear to be much to help you out legally.
Seek advice but you must have a gut feeling about this? There doesn't appear to be much to help you out legally.
05 January 2004, 11:42 PM
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When I got divorced I looked into this with my accountant and solicitor. It turns out that if the business is in your name then she can't get her hands on it unless you are going to sell it (which you won't be).
So that's a big "**** OFF" to all you money grabbing bitches out there!
Me bitter??
So that's a big "**** OFF" to all you money grabbing bitches out there!
Me bitter??
06 January 2004, 11:36 AM
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Thought I had better jump on the bandwaggon of ill treated men...
What people fail to realise is the consequences of all the courts branding men as bad. Think of the impression this puts onto young minds about the role of men in society and how it is ok to use men and discard them without rebuttle being allowed. If you are a Man then you are automatically bad in todays world is the message that we and our children are being told constantly.
How do all you guys know that Biggins is a guy? They could very well be a chick everyone is being so quick to jump to the conclusion that biggins is a man, I guess you could say do what ever floats your boat!
What people fail to realise is the consequences of all the courts branding men as bad. Think of the impression this puts onto young minds about the role of men in society and how it is ok to use men and discard them without rebuttle being allowed. If you are a Man then you are automatically bad in todays world is the message that we and our children are being told constantly.
How do all you guys know that Biggins is a guy? They could very well be a chick
everyone is being so quick to jump to the conclusion that biggins is a man, I guess you could say do what ever floats your boat!
06 January 2004, 11:50 AM
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We assume that biggins is a man as he refers to his fiance as she. as same sex marriages are not legal (yet?) in this country, that makes biggins a bloke.
I agree a bit about the man bashing, but there *are* a lot of bad men out there - domestic violence, not supporting their kids etc. Better to let people judge you by the way you live, than what "society" says about your sex.
I agree a bit about the man bashing, but there *are* a lot of bad men out there - domestic violence, not supporting their kids etc. Better to let people judge you by the way you live, than what "society" says about your sex.