How much do you need before you can retire?
05 January 2004, 11:21 AM
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How much should one have stashed away, be worth (asset value) before considering early retirement?
Obviously this depends upon what sort of lifestyle you'd want to live after retirement, but I think having about 1 mil in the bank would be a good point to start
Obviously this depends upon what sort of lifestyle you'd want to live after retirement, but I think having about 1 mil in the bank would be a good point to start
05 January 2004, 11:28 AM
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1M in the bank isn't going to do a lot for you in terms of income, especially if you want to protect the capital. maybe about £30k per year, which i suppose isn't too bad but it isn't a forutne, and you've got to get the 1m in the first place, which i imagine would be the hard part...
05 January 2004, 11:30 AM
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depends on a lot of things.
1 mill invested VERY conservatively will get you what... 5% tops? That's 50K/year. assuming you want to live at the same level indefinitely and never deplete your money, you need to leave in an amount to get around inflation... which is what.. 3%? that leaves u around 20k/year.
so with a million quid saved up, you could only realistically spend 20 grand-ish a year to continue living at this level forever. not a lot.. but id assume with that kind of money, you'd already have a house paid for so wouldnt have any mortagage payments etc. it'd be hard to have nothing to do all day long and only 20k a year to spend.
1 mill invested VERY conservatively will get you what... 5% tops? That's 50K/year. assuming you want to live at the same level indefinitely and never deplete your money, you need to leave in an amount to get around inflation... which is what.. 3%? that leaves u around 20k/year.
so with a million quid saved up, you could only realistically spend 20 grand-ish a year to continue living at this level forever. not a lot.. but id assume with that kind of money, you'd already have a house paid for so wouldnt have any mortagage payments etc. it'd be hard to have nothing to do all day long and only 20k a year to spend.
(£1m, 4% depo rate and tax at higher rate)
05 January 2004, 11:39 AM
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OK, seems like 1 mil is child's play. 3 mil would provide in the region of 60-70k to play with per year?
Isn't there a (tax)law to make things even more difficult for people who have all this money and chill out all day?
Isn't there a (tax)law to make things even more difficult for people who have all this money and chill out all day?
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05 January 2004, 11:48 AM
#8
1 million is plenty............you just need to invest it properly, anyone who thinks youd put 1 million in a savings account needs to get out more. Its possible to make a much better return with careful stock picks or consider 2nd 3rd properties etc etc etc.
Personally, if I was retiring Id use my time to trade shares (day trading would be easy on a lot less than a million, beleive me Ive bought all my cars outright on trading, and I do a normal job as well, the share money just pays for the fun things
) - its really not that hard, but you need to be committed and do a lot of reading / spend time on the subject. A number of my mates have also done the same and done much better than me, we are talking big houses and Porkers.
[Edited by ADP - 1/5/2004 11:50:31 AM]
Personally, if I was retiring Id use my time to trade shares (day trading would be easy on a lot less than a million, beleive me Ive bought all my cars outright on trading, and I do a normal job as well, the share money just pays for the fun things
) - its really not that hard, but you need to be committed and do a lot of reading / spend time on the subject. A number of my mates have also done the same and done much better than me, we are talking big houses and Porkers.[Edited by ADP - 1/5/2004 11:50:31 AM]
05 January 2004, 11:51 AM
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Thats why I will still be working if I ever make it to the age of 70! Pensions are fooked and state pension will be non existent in years to come. Getting old is really not something to look forward to. Unless I win the lottery or take up bank robbing then I will not be able to retire 
05 January 2004, 11:52 AM
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You people are so parochial in your outlook that it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
The question really depends on where you want to live, if you want to remain in the overcrowded, overpriced UK then you could do it with £500K.
Here is how- find a university town where house prices haven't risen too much. Then you buy a property with at least 5 rooms (for 100K say), spend a minimal amount of cash on converting it to comply with fire regs, decorate cheaply, then rent it out with minimal cheap decorative work done to it. Assuming you can cram 5 of them in there, it will be an income of around £250-300 per week with no mortgage to pay. Repeat this 5 times to get an income of 5K per month while protecting your capital and potentially increasing it if house prices go up.
With the 1 million mentioned earlier in the thread I imagine an income of 10K per month could be achieved.
The trick is having the money in the first place.
Personally I'd get out of the UK and go an live somewhere nice, warm and cheap if I had a decent amount of cash- oh wait I already have.
The question really depends on where you want to live, if you want to remain in the overcrowded, overpriced UK then you could do it with £500K.
Here is how- find a university town where house prices haven't risen too much. Then you buy a property with at least 5 rooms (for 100K say), spend a minimal amount of cash on converting it to comply with fire regs, decorate cheaply, then rent it out with minimal cheap decorative work done to it. Assuming you can cram 5 of them in there, it will be an income of around £250-300 per week with no mortgage to pay. Repeat this 5 times to get an income of 5K per month while protecting your capital and potentially increasing it if house prices go up.
With the 1 million mentioned earlier in the thread I imagine an income of 10K per month could be achieved.
The trick is having the money in the first place.
Personally I'd get out of the UK and go an live somewhere nice, warm and cheap if I had a decent amount of cash- oh wait I already have.
05 January 2004, 11:53 AM
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shares go down as well as up.. and unless u know what you're doing, it's hardly a safe thing to do with your retirement fund. id assumed he'd meant how much u need to GUARANTEE 100% that u can live indefinitely.
personally id look into corporate letting rather than shares.. but that's just me.
whichever way u look at it, if u want £1m to make u any more than 2ish% pa after inflation, there WILL be a risk involved.
personally id look into corporate letting rather than shares.. but that's just me.
whichever way u look at it, if u want £1m to make u any more than 2ish% pa after inflation, there WILL be a risk involved.
05 January 2004, 11:54 AM
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ADP - what sources of info are good to use? are we talking FT or more advanced stuff? i would have thought that having good info is pretty important as a lot of what's floating about will be trying to con people into bying over-valued stock.
05 January 2004, 12:07 PM
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I trade in a bank, I have huge resources of research and capital. Anyone who can guarantee to outperform the risk-free rate of return with zero risk attached is talking bollocks. 'Carefull stock picking' LOL substitute lucky for carefull, otherwise all us bankers would just borrow at the lending rate and invest in these 'sure thing' schemes people on here dream about. Of course people know people who win alot consistantly in the markets...there are soo many participants that statistically there *have* to be winners...its like the infinite number of monkeys at typewriters story...of course infinite-1 monkeys just ended up typing jibberish LOL
Rgds
Chuck
Rgds
Chuck
05 January 2004, 12:18 PM
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OF - but at the same time the major indices do consistently outperform the base rate - is this not the case? Of course, they do crash now and then, but if you take a longer term view?
05 January 2004, 12:22 PM
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Assuming you can cram 5 of them in there, it will be an income of around £250-300 per week with no mortgage to pay
Plus I bet the barstuards wouldn't keep up with rent.
05 January 2004, 12:23 PM
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Chuck - Nail & head come together in one movement.
Always amazing how many hands the "winners" have in the air, there never seem to be losers in equal numbers !
D
Always amazing how many hands the "winners" have in the air, there never seem to be losers in equal numbers !
D
05 January 2004, 12:37 PM
#21
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advfn, tmf, iii, ft?, InvChron etc etc etc
Im no proffessional, but Ive done alright for quite a few years now, you need to know when to cut your losses though, Ive never used money that could put me at risk or that I cant afford to do with out.
[Edited by ADP - 1/5/2004 12:44:47 PM]
advfn, tmf, iii, ft?, InvChron etc etc etc
Im no proffessional, but Ive done alright for quite a few years now, you need to know when to cut your losses though, Ive never used money that could put me at risk or that I cant afford to do with out.
[Edited by ADP - 1/5/2004 12:44:47 PM]
05 January 2004, 12:38 PM
#22
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I saw plenty of traders come and go at a trading house I worked at where they had a private arcade for personal accounts. One bloke was making huge amounts every week as I saw the account for him by accident one day
The others all wanted to copy what he was doing and rightly so he wasn't telling them what he was doing. Plenty of them just disappeared each time I went to the arcade to do support stuff and were replaced with new bods who again just disappeared after a while. I heard at least one of them was totally broke after literally gambling everything he had by trading and lost the lot.
The stupid thing was that the bloke who profited loads looked younger than me, had a pony tail and dressed like a student with long leather coat etc. He was absolutelty minted but didn't show it. I should imagine he has retired now (at about 30 I would guess now) as he had a very good system and banked large amounts of what he made each week and only reinvested a set amount on a weekly basis. Some people just have the gift of being able to play the game and are very fortunate. The majority play and lose or only gain small amounts.
Not the type of game I could play even if I did have money to play with in the first place.
The others all wanted to copy what he was doing and rightly so he wasn't telling them what he was doing. Plenty of them just disappeared each time I went to the arcade to do support stuff and were replaced with new bods who again just disappeared after a while. I heard at least one of them was totally broke after literally gambling everything he had by trading and lost the lot.
The stupid thing was that the bloke who profited loads looked younger than me, had a pony tail and dressed like a student with long leather coat etc. He was absolutelty minted but didn't show it. I should imagine he has retired now (at about 30 I would guess now) as he had a very good system and banked large amounts of what he made each week and only reinvested a set amount on a weekly basis. Some people just have the gift of being able to play the game and are very fortunate. The majority play and lose or only gain small amounts.
Not the type of game I could play even if I did have money to play with in the first place.
05 January 2004, 12:41 PM
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chaos- you make their parents stand as guarantor and make sure they are home owners, believe you me they pay up when they are threatened with losing their homes.
It's also very easy to get the amounts of money I mentioned- consider that for 5 occupants it is only £50 each per week.
As for having the money in the first place I started off with a 5K bank loan, 2K off my parents for legal fees (paid back within a month)and a 30K mortgage. The difference between me and a lot of other people is that I got off my **** when I saw an opportunity and did something about it. That's why I'll be retired before I'm 40.
It's also very easy to get the amounts of money I mentioned- consider that for 5 occupants it is only £50 each per week.
As for having the money in the first place I started off with a 5K bank loan, 2K off my parents for legal fees (paid back within a month)and a 30K mortgage. The difference between me and a lot of other people is that I got off my **** when I saw an opportunity and did something about it. That's why I'll be retired before I'm 40.
05 January 2004, 12:51 PM
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30k mortage - that wont buy you an outside toilet now though! Not quite the same anymore. You were obviously very lucky to go for it when the prices were low enough to buy for 30-40k!
The only places in the SE I could think of that would be cheap are in Dover where all the illegal immigrants are as no one wants to live in the ar$ehole of England anymore. I can't see making much money out of property there though. Even Hastings property has gone up even though its still as bad as ever crime wise. No point buying somewhere the other end of the country either as you'd have to always be travelling their to sort out tenancy problems etc. Plus the North is going up at 30% a year so although sounds a good idea to invest its a bit too late as prices have shot up too much already, unless you have a lot of capital to invest in the first place.
The only places in the SE I could think of that would be cheap are in Dover where all the illegal immigrants are as no one wants to live in the ar$ehole of England anymore. I can't see making much money out of property there though. Even Hastings property has gone up even though its still as bad as ever crime wise. No point buying somewhere the other end of the country either as you'd have to always be travelling their to sort out tenancy problems etc. Plus the North is going up at 30% a year so although sounds a good idea to invest its a bit too late as prices have shot up too much already, unless you have a lot of capital to invest in the first place.
05 January 2004, 12:53 PM
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Well firstly let me say this- I'm not stupid enough to give out exact personal details on a public BBS, as some morons find out to their cost it can cause you problems if you put someones back up
The houses I bought were all in a university town in the NW of England and prices have trebled since then (thus the 100K figure I used in my example).
This was 3 yrs ago.
The houses I bought were all in a university town in the NW of England and prices have trebled since then (thus the 100K figure I used in my example).
This was 3 yrs ago.
05 January 2004, 12:54 PM
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quote: "The only places in the SE I could think of that would be cheap are in Dover where all the illegal immigrants are"
I see a business opportunity in buying crap housing, doing sod all to it and letting it out to asylum seekers on benefit- don't you? Perhaps you should use that idea.
I see a business opportunity in buying crap housing, doing sod all to it and letting it out to asylum seekers on benefit- don't you? Perhaps you should use that idea.
05 January 2004, 12:56 PM
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everyone can be wise with hindsight - oh if i had done x or y, then i would now be worth £££ by now. i think NACRO's point is that most people don't bother - they just concern themsleves with day-to-day living. i admit that when i was 20, if i had enough money to get the beers in on friday evening, i was happy enough. it's only now, ten years later, that i am more concerned about making plans for my *future* wealth.
05 January 2004, 01:02 PM
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PC too right, same here. NACRO thats why I gave that example, sounds like it is an opportunuity but I reckon one that would be more hassle than what its worth - low profit if any - very low property value increase if any as demand is so low plus you have to deal with illegal immigrants who wont give a flying toss about anything so the cost of keeping the property maintained will be higher as trashing the place wont be any concern to the inhabitants - hardly going to be bothered about court proceedings against them are they?!
Opportunites arnt as golden as they always seem.
Opportunites arnt as golden as they always seem.
05 January 2004, 01:11 PM
#30
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Nacro...do you think buying houses (thru mortgaging), renting them out so they cover the mortage (i.e. pay for themselves), done as many times as possible is a good thing to do? I assume you have experience of this?