What to do when it’s very very cold and the road in front is all shiny?
08 December 2003, 07:54 AM
#1
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Got into a very frosty car this morning at six o’clock to drive to work.
Took a while to defrost the screen enough to see then pottered out onto the road like and old man. Every time I put my foot down the traction control cut in and it took me about five yards to work out that the whole road was sheet ice.
Saw FIVE significant accidents in the next eight miles
1. 4x4 fishtailing in front of me, progressively over correcting until it nosed into the hedge
2. Car had disappeared backwards through a fence into a field at what looked like quite a speed.
3. Car spun on a corner on the duel carriageway two other cars and a lorry had gone off the road trying to avoid it.
4. 4x4 had spun a couple of miles further down the same duel carriageway (A41 near Hemel) and rolled into the embankment
5. BMW drove into the back of another car whilst not slowing down for the above.
There were police in attendance at 2,3,4,& 5 which must mean half the Hertfordshire constabulary is tied up on one road this morning.
Two questions
1. Where were the gritting lorries?
2. How can so many people have such little common sense between them?
IF THE ROAD IS COVERED IN ICE, SLOW DOWN.
Took a while to defrost the screen enough to see then pottered out onto the road like and old man. Every time I put my foot down the traction control cut in and it took me about five yards to work out that the whole road was sheet ice.
Saw FIVE significant accidents in the next eight miles
1. 4x4 fishtailing in front of me, progressively over correcting until it nosed into the hedge
2. Car had disappeared backwards through a fence into a field at what looked like quite a speed.
3. Car spun on a corner on the duel carriageway two other cars and a lorry had gone off the road trying to avoid it.
4. 4x4 had spun a couple of miles further down the same duel carriageway (A41 near Hemel) and rolled into the embankment
5. BMW drove into the back of another car whilst not slowing down for the above.
There were police in attendance at 2,3,4,& 5 which must mean half the Hertfordshire constabulary is tied up on one road this morning.
Two questions
1. Where were the gritting lorries?
2. How can so many people have such little common sense between them?
IF THE ROAD IS COVERED IN ICE, SLOW DOWN.
08 December 2003, 08:04 AM
#2
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IF THE ROAD IS COVERED IN ICE, SLOW DOWN.
Where's the fun in that. It's best when there's a foot of snow and no-one has a clue how to drive on it. A bloke with a blue light on his roof tried following me in the snow once and he lost it on the 1st corner.
Sorts the men from the boys.
Where's the fun in that. It's best when there's a foot of snow and no-one has a clue how to drive on it. A bloke with a blue light on his roof tried following me in the snow once and he lost it on the 1st corner.
Sorts the men from the boys.
08 December 2003, 08:09 AM
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Obviously you’re right Golfboy but for the mere mortals without your experience and lightening reactions (and there’s at least three of them in hospital this morning) the slower option it the best chance of self-preservation.
08 December 2003, 08:18 AM
#5
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I might mention, I'm at home, won't be going out for the whole day and I'm on my way to being well and truely bladdered to try and rid myself of the feckin flu that started at 6pm last night. Right at the start of a 12 hour night shift. Sorry if my comments are annoying but.......oh **** it, I'm sick. Bye......
08 December 2003, 09:32 AM
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lack of common sense is not always the case.
my dad, best driver i know spun on an icey hairpin @ 18mph.
on the same day saw a TiTty in a ditch
******
my dad, best driver i know spun on an icey hairpin @ 18mph.
on the same day saw a TiTty in a ditch
******
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08 December 2003, 09:32 AM
#8
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The gritter lorries are a good point.
Where I live on the edge of the Pennines we pay a sh1tload of council tax, but the gritting is about half what it used to be. Last year there was an evening where a small amount of snow was forecast with very cold temperatures so it was obviously going to be dicey on the roads. Did the griiters appear - di they f**k?
Took me nearly six hours to do 30 miles most of it motorway and dual carriageway including the last half mile of dual carriageway on sheet ice (literally). Umpteen accidents and a lot of frustrated motorists.
I contacted the council (both local and county) the next morning and they said they were caught unawares. When I informed them that this was boll0cks as it had been well forecast they eventually admitted that they were trying to save money by not gritting as often and had hoped it wouldn't be that bad.
Funny then how they've found the money for six new speed cameras in the last twelve months and the money to move one as they put it in the wrong place - you know somewhere where it would have slowed people down rather than generate revenue.
This country is rapidly becoming a f**king joke and the people who are responsible for it don't seem to give a ****.
tiggers.
Where I live on the edge of the Pennines we pay a sh1tload of council tax, but the gritting is about half what it used to be. Last year there was an evening where a small amount of snow was forecast with very cold temperatures so it was obviously going to be dicey on the roads. Did the griiters appear - di they f**k?
Took me nearly six hours to do 30 miles most of it motorway and dual carriageway including the last half mile of dual carriageway on sheet ice (literally). Umpteen accidents and a lot of frustrated motorists.
I contacted the council (both local and county) the next morning and they said they were caught unawares. When I informed them that this was boll0cks as it had been well forecast they eventually admitted that they were trying to save money by not gritting as often and had hoped it wouldn't be that bad.
Funny then how they've found the money for six new speed cameras in the last twelve months and the money to move one as they put it in the wrong place - you know somewhere where it would have slowed people down rather than generate revenue.
This country is rapidly becoming a f**king joke and the people who are responsible for it don't seem to give a ****.
tiggers.
08 December 2003, 09:47 AM
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Tiggers, you forget that a speed camera will pay for itself eventually in cold hard cash whereas gritting won't.
Now that the country is run almost entirely by cynical accountants (who was it that said they know "the cost of everything, the value of nothing"?) there's no debate as to what wins.
You could, of course, argue that by preventing accidents you "save" money but an accountant would argue that you can't save money until you've spent it.
Now that the country is run almost entirely by cynical accountants (who was it that said they know "the cost of everything, the value of nothing"?) there's no debate as to what wins.
You could, of course, argue that by preventing accidents you "save" money but an accountant would argue that you can't save money until you've spent it.
08 December 2003, 09:54 AM
#10
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The sick thing is it all comes out of our pockets anyway...
No gritting = more police needed for the accidents & paperwork
Council save a few quid, police spend a few quid or dont catch crims etc while they help the accident victims...
It all makes me [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
~Jules
No gritting = more police needed for the accidents & paperwork
Council save a few quid, police spend a few quid or dont catch crims etc while they help the accident victims...
It all makes me [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
~Jules
08 December 2003, 09:58 AM
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If I remember rightly then one of the reasons why there is so little gritting is that the council open themselves up to legal action if they fail to grit one road and not another. I.e they could be open to accusations of negligence. The theory being that if they don't grit any roads then they can't be accused of missing one out. Apparently missing them all out for reasons such as 'we did't know it was going to be frosty' is easier to defend.
08 December 2003, 10:29 AM
#13
Two years back, my mate's daughter put her mum's Fiesta in a ditch on a notorious road near us, that had NOT been gritted.
She walkeed away from it, thankfully, but the car was a write-off
:
My mate tried to contact the council about why the road was not gritted, since they had published a list of the roads that WOULD be gritted only two weeks before, but he was fobbed off, along the lines of "those are the roads we will grit IF WE CAN"! T*ssers![img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
About a month later, he was contacted by his insurance company, telling him the council wer claiming some hundreds of pounds for a sign she knocked down in the accident[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Fekkin unbelievable.
Alcazar
She walkeed away from it, thankfully, but the car was a write-off
:My mate tried to contact the council about why the road was not gritted, since they had published a list of the roads that WOULD be gritted only two weeks before, but he was fobbed off, along the lines of "those are the roads we will grit IF WE CAN"! T*ssers![img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
About a month later, he was contacted by his insurance company, telling him the council wer claiming some hundreds of pounds for a sign she knocked down in the accident[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Fekkin unbelievable.
Alcazar
08 December 2003, 11:37 AM
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This country's a f*cking joke !
The councils know the cold weather is coming, but don't grit the roads in case they get sued for gritting some but not others ? Surely enough tax is paid to grit ALL the roads ? If and when they DO send the gritters out, can the people that live on the ungritted roads then claim a council tax rebate and a contribution towards their insurance premiums ?
Bloody bean counters ! Its all about maximising revenue and cutting costs instead of providing a service.
***** !
The councils know the cold weather is coming, but don't grit the roads in case they get sued for gritting some but not others ? Surely enough tax is paid to grit ALL the roads ? If and when they DO send the gritters out, can the people that live on the ungritted roads then claim a council tax rebate and a contribution towards their insurance premiums ?
Bloody bean counters ! Its all about maximising revenue and cutting costs instead of providing a service.
***** !
08 December 2003, 11:51 AM
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I live on little country road, which I don't really expect to be gritted (we have little piles of salt), but once, one end was gritted by council, but the other end, and the main road it led too weren't (diff county). So some councils can obviously afford it!
But sliding on ice is ******* scary, esp. when u have ur lil sis in car too, and all you are driving is a 1.1l ford Ka, kept it on road tho, and lil sis was so impressed she wouldn't shut up about it for rest of the day!
But sliding on ice is ******* scary, esp. when u have ur lil sis in car too, and all you are driving is a 1.1l ford Ka, kept it on road tho, and lil sis was so impressed she wouldn't shut up about it for rest of the day!
08 December 2003, 12:00 PM
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This is a problem up here a lot, but recently the council had a letter in the paper in reply to the type of point made above, and their answer to it was that in Morayshire there are somethin like a thousand miles of roads of different types and due to manpower they have to prioritise the main routes and roads with gradients and then later on they do side roads and un classified, personally I think its bull **** as they were out weeks ago and it was 12degrees!!! Thing to bear in mind in Scotland if I remember right a few years ago the council were released from the legal obligation to grit the roads at all! What do we pay 4 to 5 times the rate of inflation every year on council tax rises for???
PS. Feel obligated to say that drivers should modify their driving style to suit the conditions
PS. Feel obligated to say that drivers should modify their driving style to suit the conditions
08 December 2003, 12:14 PM
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Councils have a list of roads they grit, but the appearance of the gritters is dependent on the Councils having the grit, and their weather forecasters having forecasted that the roads will need gritting!
However there is no obligation on Councils to grit, and there is no ability to sue them because they should have gritted, but haven't. It is upto drivers to drive at a speed consistent with the cnditions.
There was a big case involving East Sussex County Council where a driver claimed he crashed because they hadn't gritted. Outcome was the Council won, they have no obligation to grit.
However there is no obligation on Councils to grit, and there is no ability to sue them because they should have gritted, but haven't. It is upto drivers to drive at a speed consistent with the cnditions.
There was a big case involving East Sussex County Council where a driver claimed he crashed because they hadn't gritted. Outcome was the Council won, they have no obligation to grit.
08 December 2003, 12:48 PM
#21
I recall many years ago when I had my escort, we were out in a pub in the sticks, and it freezed over. Did'nt seem too bad, when I left though, but I had a cjoice of route; main road or the short cut along the lanes and over the hills. Stupid me took the short cut 
Picture me sliding down a steep hill unable to slow down, yet alone stop with a sharp bend at the bottom! I was ready to ditch the car in the grass verge, rather than go through a hedge! - and I had one of my mates in the back seat shout "why I was going so slow" (he shut up when I said I couldn't stop). Ok all of this was at 15-20mph, but was way to fast for the conditions (not my fault as the car was accelating of it's own accord). Thankfully, running on the grass slowed the car enough to get enough steering to go round the bend. Looking back it was like "speed" but in slow motion 
Oh, and don't forget scoobs aren't immune either. IMO the back end is as twitchy as any rear wheel drive car in ice and snow. - I Remember doing a 5mph 4 wheel drift sideways across the junction of a main road when trying to turn right last year, and it left a big grin on my face after correcting it just at the point of it about to swap ends Probably down to luck and the slow speed though, but the look of peoples faces waiting at the traffic lights was bemusing to say the least (and I had my mum in the passenger seat too ).
In the end of the day, it's this time of year that catches all the crap drivers out. Any driver with decent common sense will know what how to control a car and drive at according speeds. Also use enough judgment to leave the car at home and walk if it's too bad! Gritters or no Gritters!
(BTW I'm not saying I'm a good driver - far from it, I just use common sense and learn by experiance)
Picture me sliding down a steep hill unable to slow down, yet alone stop with a sharp bend at the bottom! I was ready to ditch the car in the grass verge, rather than go through a hedge! - and I had one of my mates in the back seat shout "why I was going so slow" (he shut up when I said I couldn't stop
). Ok all of this was at 15-20mph, but was way to fast for the conditions (not my fault as the car was accelating of it's own accord). Thankfully, running on the grass slowed the car enough to get enough steering to go round the bend. Looking back it was like "speed" but in slow motion Oh, and don't forget scoobs aren't immune either. IMO the back end is as twitchy as any rear wheel drive car in ice and snow. - I Remember doing a 5mph 4 wheel drift sideways across the junction of a main road when trying to turn right last year, and it left a big grin on my face after correcting it just at the point of it about to swap ends
Probably down to luck and the slow speed though, but the look of peoples faces waiting at the traffic lights was bemusing to say the least (and I had my mum in the passenger seat too ).In the end of the day, it's this time of year that catches all the crap drivers out. Any driver with decent common sense will know what how to control a car and drive at according speeds. Also use enough judgment to leave the car at home and walk if it's too bad!
Gritters or no Gritters!(BTW I'm not saying I'm a good driver - far from it, I just use common sense and learn by experiance
)
08 December 2003, 12:59 PM
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Its a mistake those with 4 wheel driver often make. All 4 wheels are driven therefore I have more grip. Thats cobblers on ice, you've got just as much grip as everyone else, especially when it comes to stopping and turning. 4WD might get you going but won't help you stop!
08 December 2003, 01:07 PM
#23
Totally agree Chris. I've had many winters to find that out, I just find it rather amusing when some people on here think because scoobs are 4wd, (or offroaders or any 4wd car) and because of their rally pedigree etc. They think their car is the king of snow and ice IMO The only difference is traction in terms of being able to pull away from rest. The same laws of physics always apply, Unless you go and fit snow tyres or chains!
IMO The only difference is traction in terms of being able to pull away from rest. The same laws of physics always apply, Unless you go and fit snow tyres or chains!
08 December 2003, 01:15 PM
#24
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200 + bhp through low profile tyres (like nearly every impreza on the road) is NOT a good recipe for snow 4 wheel drive or not.
Had to get the lads to push me off site last year and they kept taking the **** about me having 4 wheel drive and no grip (barstads).
Had to get the lads to push me off site last year and they kept taking the **** about me having 4 wheel drive and no grip (barstads).
08 December 2003, 01:17 PM
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There seem to be a hell of a lot of people here who think its 100% the councils fault for not gritting the roads.
Sure it won't help that they haven't gritted them but the main fault lies with the arsehole drivers who continue to drive in frosty conditions like it was a summers day [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
This country is going to the ****house and its whingers who take no responsibility for their own actions that is causing it - not the councils, not the government but those who rant and moan about how bad it is without doing something to improve it
[/monday rant caused by having to be up at 4.30 am
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]]
08 December 2003, 01:19 PM
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There seem to be a hell of a lot of people here who think its 100% the councils fault for not gritting the roads.
Sure it won't help that they haven't gritted them but the main fault lies with the arsehole drivers who continue to drive in frosty conditions like it was a summers day
Sure it won't help that they haven't gritted them but the main fault lies with the arsehole drivers who continue to drive in frosty conditions like it was a summers day
08 December 2003, 01:24 PM
#27
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can assure you that scoobs are not king of the ice. Ours went in the lovely new year's weather on a stretch of road that is apparently infamous for killing cars. Not speeding either as the police agreed.
08 December 2003, 03:13 PM
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I still fail to understand why britain grinds to a halt at the first signs of bad weather, bit of snow and everyone panics and crashes, bit of ice and everyone panics and crashes and blames the council, first leaves of autumn and the trains grind to a halt, Its a bit of a sorry state of affairs isn't it??? we have worse weather than in england most of th time and everyone goes about their business with no problems what so ever. the weather in England is the same at the same time every year so how come you get so many problems?????? aren't you supposed to learn from your mistakes not make the same ones every year and then claim the weather caught you unawares or the met office didn't tell you it was going to be cold in december !!!!!!!!!!!!
08 December 2003, 03:35 PM
#29
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OK while I agree that to a certain extent people should attempt to be more conscious of the conditions when it is icy it is surely up to the councils and police to help with the road conditions when they get bad. After all isn't this part of what we pay our overblown council tax bill for?
While many accidents can be attributed to poor driving judgement if you look at my post above it was hardly my fault that I spent 4 hours stationary on the motorway while the police removed umpteen accidents ahead of me caused by the fact that the snow/ice arrived exactly as forecast, but the council still did not grit. By the time I got going the end of the dual carriageway I was on was literally sheet ice. I didn't crash, but through aboslutely no skill of my own, just pure luck and there were plenty who did.
Or take the time about six years ago in similar circumstances when some dumbass copper decided to close the road I was on despite the fact that I was making very slow, but steady progress and sent us all despite our protestations down another road the last mile of which was sheet ice. Again I didn't crash, but two cars in front of me ended up 20 yards down a ditch. The most annoying thing was that when I passed the end of my original route it was apparent that PC Dumbass must have seen the error of his ways as there were cars creeping gently off it.
tiggers.
While many accidents can be attributed to poor driving judgement if you look at my post above it was hardly my fault that I spent 4 hours stationary on the motorway while the police removed umpteen accidents ahead of me caused by the fact that the snow/ice arrived exactly as forecast, but the council still did not grit. By the time I got going the end of the dual carriageway I was on was literally sheet ice. I didn't crash, but through aboslutely no skill of my own, just pure luck and there were plenty who did.
Or take the time about six years ago in similar circumstances when some dumbass copper decided to close the road I was on despite the fact that I was making very slow, but steady progress and sent us all despite our protestations down another road the last mile of which was sheet ice. Again I didn't crash, but two cars in front of me ended up 20 yards down a ditch. The most annoying thing was that when I passed the end of my original route it was apparent that PC Dumbass must have seen the error of his ways as there were cars creeping gently off it.
tiggers.
08 December 2003, 04:07 PM
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Have to agree with Wurzel, 3 inches of snow up here and people just go about their business, 3 inches of snow in southern parts of England and they are dumping cars and getting hotel accomodation! Just take it easy!!
also have to agree about 4x4 grip - 2wd x0 = 0 4wd x0 = 0
PS, bit of an aside but weather related, Motorway traffic in pea soup fog with trouble seeing the end of the bonnet! and folk are still doin 80 plus in the outside lane!? Fear would make me slow down!
also have to agree about 4x4 grip - 2wd x0 = 0 4wd x0 = 0
PS, bit of an aside but weather related, Motorway traffic in pea soup fog with trouble seeing the end of the bonnet! and folk are still doin 80 plus in the outside lane!? Fear would make me slow down!