NelsonUK

A friend of mine has been involved in a motor accident tonight which she says is her fault. Details aside she gave out her insurance and address particulars and teh guy who she hit didn't leave any of his info.but said he lives locally. She has just been to the t.parties car and has noticed that the tax disc expired at the end of October !!?? The car in question is an F plate Pug 205 (which is a write off) My question is what should she do about this cos surely the car isn't road legal (with no tax) and should not have been on the road. The thing is its not like the tax expired nov - this is october which leads me to ask as to whether this guy has insurance and or a valid MOT !!

Any advice welcome - as whilst I work in the insurance game - I am not sure whether motor insurance is void should the vehicle not be road legal at the time of an accident ??

Dougster

Call the cops!!

paulr

If the accident was her fault,and she is insured fully comp,then it shouldn't matter as she will be claiming of her insurance anyway.

I think?

NelsonUK

Thats the problem she not fully comp- however damage limitation makes me think that if this guys either doesn;t have insurance and or his insurance cover is void cos of no tax then there is a possibility that he can't make a claim and at least my mate keeps her NCB.....she would only have a car to repair.

Delboy2

Theoretically speaking the car shouldn't even be on the road which also leads on to the fact if the car has no tax then there's a good possibility that it also has no MOT. Either way if it has no tax then it should not be on the road. Get your friend to speak to the rozzers regarding this situation or contact DVLA.

dr_ming

Call the cops. No tax usually equals no insurance, and no MOT either. Hopefully, they will take his car away and crush it. End of problem.

jjones

if she caused the accident then even if the other car is illegal she is liable. he may be prosecuted for any traffic violations, no insurance etc seperately. he may not be able to claim off her insurance if he was illegally driving.

NelsonUK

Thanks for all your advice guys - appreciate it

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Technically, if a car has no MOT or Road Tax, or the driver has no licence to drive said vehicle, the policy of insurance should be null and void.

However, if your friend is 3rd party only and wishes to keep NCD, then it may be in her best interests to keep quiet.

The wife of a guy I know did the very same thing... rear ended a car, BIG damage. Got a mobile number from the driver and called it later... spoke to the driver of the car, who asked that they call back later and speak to her husband.

When they called back later, the folk on the other end of the phone claimed to know nothing of the accident and said they had the wrong number! lol

The moral... they did not pursue it. They repaired their car and kept NCD.

Not a lot to be gained by reporting it, plus as mentioned above, you could find yourself being charged with careless/dangerous driving.

pslewis

Report it to the police, inform them AND your Ins Co that he has no tax - let them sort it if the want to

MUCH better to be above board in this game!

Pete

pugoetru

if her damage is not too bad she would be better just to repair it herself as she will no doubt have an excess anyway which she will have to pay

if the other person has no insurance sod them

Buckrogers

No tax and on the road = no insurance.

lmsbman

Be careful. Technically, you have to report all accidents to your insurance company, regardless of whether you want to make a claim or not. If they find out and you haven't told them they will cancel your policy (anything to get out of paying back our hard earned dosh!!!)

If you contact the Police, they should be able to run the reg number through the PNC and that will say if the vehicle is insured. They wont be able to give you any details coz of data protection, but it will give you/them somewhere to start.

big500

I agree with Imsbman if you report that you have been involved in an accident ( which technically you are legally obliged to do if there is a third party involved )the insurance company will send you a claim form automatically.
They will record a pending claim against your policy.The exact same thing happened to me but in my case the untaxed / no mot / no insurance "driver" pulled out on me. I involved the insurance co and police , at the time i was driving a 1974 land rover pick up ( recommended for destroying asians nissans )
I marked the paint on my bumper and smashed a lens on one of my driving lamps ( which I had a spare anyway cos I had leeched them off my escort) so my repair cost was a teaspoon full of black paint ! Unfortunately the nissan sunny did not fair too well 2 doors , roof , sills , A post etc.
No one was hurt btw , but my insurance company still recorded a claim against me and I was luck to keep my NCD as I had completed the claims form.
I suppose my advice would be dependant on the amount of damage to your car , you will probably lose the NCD and if the other driver was illegal.
( AFAIK an expired mot renders your insurance invalid but tax is an inland revenue issue ) the only recourse for getting the repair costs back would be a small claims court case against the other driver for compensation.
If the other driver was an IE , ethnic , drug addict , social security depleteion officer etc I think you will struggle to get better than £1 per week.


Sorry if my opinions cast a cloud of doom but sometimes white lies or amnesia seems a good direction


My advice take a minder and go have a word with the guy and see how he wants to progress the issue due to your concerns over the legality of his vehicle.



Steve



[Edited by big500 - 12/6/2003 10:09:57 AM]

talizman

iTrader: (1)

A common misconception, but totally wrong.

There i sno obligation to inform Police of an RTA, in fact, even if you do contact the police and they attend, if it is a straight forward bump for bump and the parties swap particulars, the police take no involvement.

The Police would become involved if there are injuries or if someone is getting charged.

This, however, is correct.....

Luke

Get photos of his car and the tax disc .Remember this guy has her details...if he is a scum with not tax/insurance etc.. ? maybe he will get angry about it all. Kill him ,call it quits.

scooby adz

talizman,
Wrong wrong & wrong again.

IT IS AN OFFENCE NOT TO REPORT A RTA, even if the police are not called YOU have 24hrs to contact the police and give them your details.

big500

Talizman sorry if I mislead you but unless I am mistaken the reporting to police only applies if there is a third party involved ( inclusive of walls and farm animals etc) and that has to be done within 24 hours. However any accident that may result in an insurance claim should be reported to the insurace company.(Have a look in the small print of the contract not the policy)
So if you kerb a wheel and damage it - no need to report it but id it damages the kerb then it should be reported because technically the council could get reimbursement for the repairs to the kerb.
The advice I had been given was from a traffic officer and an insurance claim advisor for Legal & General.

I once took out a farmers wall on a night rally , the car was not damaged too bad but I had to report it to the police and me and 2 mates spent 4 hours the following afternoon rebuilding it ( one of the mates worked on a farm and was a bit handy at dry stone walling ) dropped the farmer a bottle of genfiddich by way of an apology and repaired the car myself ...... end of story


Steve

big500

If you want the legal definition of a RTA here it is ( as per the Road Traffic Act 1992 )

Owing to the prescence of a motor vehicle on a road , damages caused to any road furniture or property other than the vehicle , or injuries caused to any animal or person other than the driver is a Road Traffic Accident.

Any person having a Road Traffic Accident should leave with a responsible person , Insurance details and their Name and Address.
(by responsible person it is refering to a representative of the third party)

Any RTA should be reported to the police as soon as reasonably practicable or within 24 Hours.


Steve

pugoetru

The police will not be interested anyway so whats the point of reporting it ??

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Scooby Adz,

You are "wrong, wrong and wrong again" mate, it is not an offence, trust me, I'm a policeman!

What you may be getting confused with, is, an accident having occurred, it is an offence for a person to fail to STOP.

If the person fails to stop, they MUST report it to the police within 24 hrs.

If they fail to report it after having failed to stop, they have contravened 2 sections of the Road Traffic Act 1988, namely Sections 170 (2) and 170 (4). (fail to stop and fail to report)

I have copied the following from Government website on Road Traffic Law...

Section 170 subsections 3 and 5 define the circumstance under which a person MUST report an RTA and it only applies if they have failed to stop, or failed to produce their required info at time of accident. (insurance company name etc etc)

This should clear things up!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Duties in case of accident

Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents.

170.—(1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which—
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that motor vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused—
(i) to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2) The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

(3) If for any reason the driver of the motor vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

(4) A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.

(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—
(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.
This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.


(6) To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver—
(a) must do so at a police station or to a constable, and
(b) must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.
(7) A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5) above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if, within five days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when the accident was reported.

(8) In this section "animal" means horse, cattle, ***, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

talizman

iTrader: (1)

btw, Big500,

Your definition of a Road Accident as specified in the Road Traffic Act 1988 was almost correct, apart from the sentence YOU added onto the end! lol

If you want to see the Proper definition of a Road Accident, look at Section 170(1) on this page.

David Lock

But the guy your pal hit who had no tax has a pal in the garage trade and he will confirm that the guy had booked an MOT and was just on his way so he was legal on the road (assuming he had insurance)? D

Dazza01

talizman,
Well bugger me, i was always led to believe u had to report it, just in case the particulars that you are given were incorrect.

Well u learn something new everyday

and i posted it not scooby Adz, thats my youngest, who forgets to "log off" when he's been on here.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Stick with me Dazza, I'll keep you right son!

Dazza01

Noted Sir

big500

<<< Bows head to PC talizman

Bottom line I would still nip round to see the guy and see how he wants to progress with the matter.
Was I right in my belief that the tax didn't nescessarily invalidate any insurance ?

Steve

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Technically, you CAN have insurance without requiring tax.

For example, if your car is off the road, and you have given DVLA SORN (statutory off road notification) then you don't need tax, but you will still want insurance in case your car gets stolen.

I think yu may find that each policy's small print differs to some extent and some may well stipulate tax and others may not.

Like someone mentioned above, tax is not a Road Traffic Act requirement, it is a revenue issue dealt with by the Vehicle Exise and Registration Act 1994.

pugoetru

I agree with talizman i had an accident with someone recently her mum and dad turned up mum said we need to phone the police

I said no you dont she was not having it

I told her they wont be interested as nobody was hurt she still wanted to call them!

Just then a patrol car drove past she jumped out in front of it to stop them

They told her what i told her

The accident was her daughters fault but i think she was trying to blame me wanted police to back her up LOL

as i seen the police at the time i did not go to the station to report it insurance did not even ask if i did.

Diesel

So this person gets their car driven into but since they have no road tax it is now all their fault and they deserve to be shafted? What the hell is going on here then?

Havent we all forgot to renew the tax (or god forbid the MOT) now and again? OK this person maybe hasnt bought tax for quite a few months, but the tax is extortion and not everyone has £170 to hand immediately for Tony to squander on everything BUT roads.

500 - made me laugh with your 'dry stone wall building'; local copper gave me a clip 'round the earhole once when I was 19 & told me to re-build the wall I'd smacked into via some black ice. Now that's what you call policing - none of this devious jiggery-pokery!