lmsbman

Why are students complaining about their fees? Surely the whole idea of going to university is that gaining a degree will get you a better job than those who don't go. This means you'll be earning more money, so why should I have to pay for you to get an education?

weapon69

Oh right. So the fact i can no longer go to university BECAUSE of the fees is ok. Its a ******* joke and i won't be voting Labour.

corradoboy

Why should I pay for unemployed people to have more babies? Why should I pay for houses for foreigners? Why should I pay for Spanish roads? Why should I pay so much for petrol?
I don't really mind paying for people to educate themselves. I don't mind funding those unfortunate to be disabled. I don't mind financing the NHS. But the welfare state is a spongers paradise and an honest workers nightmare. The immigration situation is a sick joke. The EU are thieves. And so is the government.

matt85

right, so its £3000 a year before you have payed for anything. add on that housing, added bits for tuition etc, transport, food etc etc and you are talking a lot of money for someone in full time education.


but the main point about tuition fees though is that they will exclude most from going to university because of the cost. poor students wil not be able to afford to go and will be caught further into the poverty trap by not gaining good qualifications therefore getting the lower paid jobs, while alredy wealthy students can go and therefore getting better jobs to become even wealthier, meaing a much bigger divide between the classes. its about equality more than anything else

Ali Scott

I completly agree with lmsbman..

They dont have to pay it back till they're earning over 15k anyway.. Tuff **** students, welcome to the real world!!

weapon69

Ali-Did you go to university for free?

Sub97

All this crap about poor students from poor families is just that. The idea is that you pay the money back when you are working - i.e. when you have benefited from the degree you did. Its got nothing to do with hwo rich your parents are as they wont have to pay for it. Hopefully this will stop people who just go to uni because they are too lazy to get a job going, and stop degrading the value of a degree for those that actually want/need one.

I know for a fact that when I went to uni I could have saved an absolute shed load of money by not going out as often as I did and not spending as much money on clothes etc. Im not saying students shouldnt go out three/four nights a week, but why should we have to fund it?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I saw a program about this and the labour dude wants 50% of the population to go to university but he also want more companies requesting degree level education so surely this is automatically barring 50% of the population from ever getting jobs.

Also in my personal opinion I think far to many people are going to university and doing stupid degrees just for the sake of getting a degree. This also prevents a large portion of non degree people from getting jobs.

I lost out on a job because the other person had a degree and I didn't, the fact that this person had spent 20 years at school and had no clue about the real world or employment experience didn't matter they had a degree and I didn't in spite of my experience.

even now there are people coming out of university and not able to get jobs so why force more people through the education system only to come out no better than when they went in an 4 years older.

I agree that Doctors, Pilots, solicitors, surveyors etc should go to university but most other proffesions will surfice with a college education and on the job training, they should bring back more apprenticeships and sandwhich courses rather than pile people through university.

only my opinion.

JR55

With out students our streets would be alot quiter and free of last nights excesses but we will shagged for industry leaders, engineers, doctors etc.Making people pay top up fee's is ridiculous how this is supposed to encourage people to go to university is beyond me, on top of rent and living expenses an extra £3k per year will land people in real debt unfortunatley the rent and living expenses can't be deffered until a decent level of income has been attained. The government have really lost the plot on this one and it is the small push that i required to turn me to the Dark (blue) side.

scoobynutta555

Maybe you lost out on the job because of your poor spelling

weapon69

I think its awful what the government are doing

I can't go to university because i can't have any more debt! The blokie at the NUS thinks that typical student debt would become 30K

Whatever job they get, if they want a mortgage/children/whatever its going to be a ridiculous debt to have.

Freak

My degree was at a private college (in conjunction with a big established uni) which i managed to get 80% funding for....

It was £10k for the two year full time degree.......which isnt a lot more than labour are planning on charging for every degree ............ kinda puts it into perspective


Its utter crap and i hope it is the final nail in el presidente b.liars political coffin

lmsbman

Weapon 69
Welcome to the real world. There's lots of things I'd like to do, but can't afford to. I'm not saying that people shouldn't further their education but why should they expect everyone to pay for it.

Try not going out 4-5 times a week to the pub, but get a part-time job instead.

I could have gone to Uni(got 3 A levels) but I decided that I wanted to climb the job ladder by gaining experience during the day and earning a living, then studying at night ( a course I had to pay for)

weapon69

Yeh **** OFF!

Hobo_Jojo

yup no kids til ya 50

Freak

Already you have to pay up to £1025 a year at uni...
Plus have the debt from your loans and any assistance from your family or whatever....coming out of uni with over 10k of debt is bad enough- let alone nearer 30k!

Increasing this financial debt and future burden is not really going to help...

Think how many courses the cash wasted on iraq could have paid for...........f*ckwits

unclebuck

A bloke I work with joined the company about 5 years ago as a graduate. He's completely paid off his student loan long ago. Now he enjoys driving around in his Terzo, with a full home cinima system to die for and every DVD ever released to watch when he gets home.

Student debt didn't hold him back at all. So what's the fuss all about?

UB

weapon69

The people that are implementing these top-up fees went to university FOR FREE. I don't mind contributing for my education but 3k a year? Plus living costs on top? I want to do a degree that will give me a chance of a career. I don't want a degree in watching films or whatever. It is true that people from poorer families will be completely put off of going to university. its 5 years for a degree in medicine..how much debt??!

unclebuck

The people that are implementing these top-up fees went to university FOR FREE.

Sorry, I don't see the relevance of this. Surely they were susidised by the tax payer when they were students. When they become taxpayers they themselves are subsidising the next generation of students. So it evens out.

The problem is that now *50%* of kids want to go to University. Many to do 'bog paper' degrees. Too many to subsidise from taxes.(and what have they done to merit this anyway) Something has to give.

It seems very fair to me that they can have what is essentially an interest free loan that they only *have* to pay back when they start earning decent money. I can't see the problem with that.

UB <still>

dnb

I have a number of concerns with the university fees - the whole thing just doesn't seem to be thought through properly...

What do you all think the average starting salary for a graduate is? (I think it's less than a lot of people think...)

How many students have tried to get a mortgage after they graduate?

With £8k student debt, it's not impossible to get a mortgage... with £30k it's going to be damn near impossible - even with a "low interest repayment" unless graduate starting salaries are significantly better than they are now. (up to the level of people with 3 or more years experience on top of their degree)

This could drive our graduates overseas (America and the like) where the graduate pay is apparently better than the UK. UK industry will therefore suffer as a result.

Or else, the rest of the work force get quite annoyed that the new graduates are apparently earning more than them. Thus UK wages have to rise, causing no end of problems.

You could also end up in the daft situation where it's better to work for £14999 per year than to work for £15001... Thus there isn't enough money being paid back to sustain the system...

OK, so 2 silly extreme examples, but they are based on reason.

The net result is that the tax payers will pay - either directly, or indirectly. I favour directly, as it could well prove to be less destructive to the economy, and will probably be more efficient!! ie you get more education for each £1 spent

BTW, I have £8k(ish) of student debt left. I also worked part time for most of my time at Uni. (and didn't spend that much time in the pub!)

weapon69

UB-So your saying that just as much of the taxpayers money is going into universities as it used to?

hmmm.

unclebuck

I don't know, but there a far more 'Universities' then there used to be and far, far more students, so I wouldn't be suprised if that's the case.

UB

BexTait

I personally think it's the government's fault for wanting so many people to go to uni. I devalues a degree, and now it's not the fact that you went to a uni that's important, it's where you went. Plus there's some pretty 5hite degrees around, for example 'Applied furniture studies', WTF!

magepaster

iTrader: (2)

I'm wondering why the goverment feels the need to extort so much money out of students to pay for an education that enables them obtain better paid jobs and earn enough money and put them in the 40% TAX bracket giving the goverment a greater stranglehond on our abilities to live the lives we strive for.

unclebuck

Why is it extortion? Someone has to pay for little Tarquin and every other Tom, Dick etc to study their chosen degrees. Don’t see why it should be me.

As somebody else pointed out there is no guarantee that these people will graduate and get a highly paid job and pay loads of tax. As Also pointed out, there’s no guarantee that they will stay in this country to work.

And as *someone* mentioned they might decide they want to have babies instead. Why should the UK taxpayer subsidise all of them? Makes no sense.

UB

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I've got mates with kids at, or gone through, uni. I'd second the posts about useless degrees, and so would their parents. But they helped them through it because they believed the hype about better jobs.

I now know of two who have come out with degrees, and either can't get a job at all, (we don't all live in the affluent south!), or who are working cold calling etc! Hardly degree work eh?

Add to that their LOST earnings during their degree years, and they are a HELL of a long way behind those who went straight into work.
How is top-up fees going to stop that?

Leat's face it, more students at uni/in sixth form etc was/is just a politician's trick to get them off the unemployed register.
THAT'S what we need to stop............this relentless drive to put people through uni on bullsh1t courses, to hide the real truth.

Alcazar

lmsbman

Anybody here got a degree?

If so, what use is it to you in your current role? Could you be doing the job without having gained a degree first?

civictyper

Before the rise in undergrad students there was a balance where kids leaving school started apprenticeships/work and paid taxes into the system.

Nowadays there are so many kids going straight to Uni that there is a hole in tax revenue and also a drain as the taxpayers money is going to fund undergrads. If the figure is £3k per year per student and approx 50% of kids are going to Uni for 3 years then the drain has got to be significant.

IMO the prospect of paying £3k per year will put off kids wanting to do 'soft degrees' and will also get others taking up regular trades like carpentry/plumbing/building etc to restore some kind of balance.

Personally I could not afford to go to Uni so am doing an OU BEng degree (bit Mickey Mouse I know ). It's bloody painful as I have to work (cough, surf SN) full time, look after a 3 year old (another one due in Jan) and run a house etc but at least I will graduate (someday) and with zero debt.

dnb

lmsbman - yes, I've got a degree. Quite a good one, so I'm led to believe.

It was directly relevent to my job for the first 1.5 years.
Then I moved departments - it is now not as relevent, but without the skills gained on the degree, I know I'd not be able to do the job.

civictyper - Having watched a friend do her OU degree, I don't think it's a soft option! I wish you the best of luck

IMO it was a real shame that the polytechnics were labeled as universities a number of years ago. Without going into details, it has helped to put us in the situation we're in now.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

OU degrees aren't a soft option, no way!
My wife does some work for 'em as a tutor, and they have to work really hard, and most of 'em do it while holding down a job, and bringing up family at the same time.

Alcazar