Pet Rabbits (RIP)
23 September 2003, 03:20 PM
#1
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A few months back we bought a pair of rabbits. Basically they live in the garden, have a full free run, but we put them back in the hutch during the night.
Unfortunatly we forgot to put them away the other night.
When I got up in the morning, I noticed that the hutch doors were still open and I thought "damn, forgot to put them away last night". However a brief look around the garden confirmed that neither rabbit could be found. What's worse is that I found 'amounts' of fluff from one of them in an area near the fence, which suggested it had been attacked.
At this point I had to go to work, and we didn't tell our 4 year old son that his rabbits had *gone*.
Late that afternoon I received a telephone call from home, and my young lad was inconsolable and insisted that I call the police, such that whoever had taken his rabbits could be found. (story my wife had told him)
Further inspection of the garden when I got home suggested that the light grey rabbit had been dragged up the six foot fence at the bottom of the garden, never to be seen again. I could see no evidence of it by looking, nor any evidence at all of the black rabbit we also had.
A few days have since passed, and we have two new rabbits, and hopefully we will be a little more careful about not forgetting to put them away on a night. However, it quickly became obvious that our neighbour's from behind the fence have a cat with a keen interest in our garden + new rabbits.
When I saw them next, I asked quite politly if they had woken up to find a dead rabbit or two in house a few days back, which they snapped back "no". Their attitude gave it away.... their cat must be responsible for at least one of our rabbit's death.
I explained that I don't have a problem with it, I just wanted to try and establish what had happend to our two rabbits. I then got a torrent of abuse, saying it was my own fault for leaving them out all night etc. (it was, and it was upsetting, but don't need that crap).
After gettig the verbal abuse, I lost my temper and said, well next time your f"£$ing cat comes in my garden, I'll shoot the f£"$ing thinkg"
They stormed into the house.
15 minutes later the police were at my door, saying a neighbour had reported that I was threatning to shoot their cat.
I explained what had gone on, and said I had no intention of shooting the cat unless it was in our garden, I showed him the air weapon I intend to use (AA S410 for those interested) and explained that it would be a clean kill, and the cat would not suffer. As it was on my property, and I could prove that discharging the weapon in my garden at certain points would not subject Joe Public to any risk, I was quite within my rights to shoot the cat.
Poor old PC was a bit stuck on what to do, and said he would have to refer it back to somebody at the station, but asked me not to do anything, as it would only inflame the situation with the neighbours.
This was two days ago, and I've not heard back from the police. I'm going to give them a call when I get home tonight, but unless somebody points out to me why I can't legally shoot their cat if it comes in my garden, I'll be sorting it out over the coming weekend.
I will of course notify the nice neighbours in writing that should their cat enter my garden, I will shoot it, but unless they keep it locked up, I fail to see how they can stop it. They will also get the corpse returned to them, so they can do what they want with it, which is more than I got for my rabbits.
I expect the RSPCA to pitch up next, but I'm not sure what they can do, as the police seem unsure/unable to do anything.
Some people will think I'm cruel, some people will think I'm wrong in doing what I'm going to do, but just like the cat's natural instinct is to kill my pet rabbits, mine is to stop the cat upsetting my son. I'm also fed up with the things shi%%ing all over my flower beds, but's that's another story.
Anyway, would any legal bods be able to comment on my situation?
Unfortunatly we forgot to put them away the other night.
When I got up in the morning, I noticed that the hutch doors were still open and I thought "damn, forgot to put them away last night". However a brief look around the garden confirmed that neither rabbit could be found. What's worse is that I found 'amounts' of fluff from one of them in an area near the fence, which suggested it had been attacked.
At this point I had to go to work, and we didn't tell our 4 year old son that his rabbits had *gone*.
Late that afternoon I received a telephone call from home, and my young lad was inconsolable and insisted that I call the police, such that whoever had taken his rabbits could be found. (story my wife had told him)
Further inspection of the garden when I got home suggested that the light grey rabbit had been dragged up the six foot fence at the bottom of the garden, never to be seen again. I could see no evidence of it by looking, nor any evidence at all of the black rabbit we also had.
A few days have since passed, and we have two new rabbits, and hopefully we will be a little more careful about not forgetting to put them away on a night. However, it quickly became obvious that our neighbour's from behind the fence have a cat with a keen interest in our garden + new rabbits.
When I saw them next, I asked quite politly if they had woken up to find a dead rabbit or two in house a few days back, which they snapped back "no". Their attitude gave it away.... their cat must be responsible for at least one of our rabbit's death.
I explained that I don't have a problem with it, I just wanted to try and establish what had happend to our two rabbits. I then got a torrent of abuse, saying it was my own fault for leaving them out all night etc. (it was, and it was upsetting, but don't need that crap).
After gettig the verbal abuse, I lost my temper and said, well next time your f"£$ing cat comes in my garden, I'll shoot the f£"$ing thinkg"
They stormed into the house.
15 minutes later the police were at my door, saying a neighbour had reported that I was threatning to shoot their cat.
I explained what had gone on, and said I had no intention of shooting the cat unless it was in our garden, I showed him the air weapon I intend to use (AA S410 for those interested) and explained that it would be a clean kill, and the cat would not suffer. As it was on my property, and I could prove that discharging the weapon in my garden at certain points would not subject Joe Public to any risk, I was quite within my rights to shoot the cat.
Poor old PC was a bit stuck on what to do, and said he would have to refer it back to somebody at the station, but asked me not to do anything, as it would only inflame the situation with the neighbours.
This was two days ago, and I've not heard back from the police. I'm going to give them a call when I get home tonight, but unless somebody points out to me why I can't legally shoot their cat if it comes in my garden, I'll be sorting it out over the coming weekend.
I will of course notify the nice neighbours in writing that should their cat enter my garden, I will shoot it, but unless they keep it locked up, I fail to see how they can stop it. They will also get the corpse returned to them, so they can do what they want with it, which is more than I got for my rabbits.
I expect the RSPCA to pitch up next, but I'm not sure what they can do, as the police seem unsure/unable to do anything.
Some people will think I'm cruel, some people will think I'm wrong in doing what I'm going to do, but just like the cat's natural instinct is to kill my pet rabbits, mine is to stop the cat upsetting my son. I'm also fed up with the things shi%%ing all over my flower beds, but's that's another story.
Anyway, would any legal bods be able to comment on my situation?
23 September 2003, 03:36 PM
#2
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I've got a similar situation - my neighbours got loads of cats. I've got a dog 
so that gets around most of the problems, but we've also got two rabbits.
If a cat tried to attack the one, it would get the **** kicked out of it - this rabbit's nearly as big as my Cocker Spaniel
I wouldn't dream of hurting the cat (somebody else has done that to one of them - bloody cat shat itself and died under my Scoob!!
), but I just let the dog loose - fair game if she catches one!!
Hope you get it sorted though - my little girl would be devastated if her rabbits were hurt in anyway
Best of luck
Dan
[Edited by ScoobyDoo555 - 9/23/2003 3:37:24 PM]
so that gets around most of the problems, but we've also got two rabbits.If a cat tried to attack the one, it would get the **** kicked out of it - this rabbit's nearly as big as my Cocker Spaniel
I wouldn't dream of hurting the cat (somebody else has done that to one of them - bloody cat shat itself and died under my Scoob!!
), but I just let the dog loose - fair game if she catches one!!Hope you get it sorted though - my little girl would be devastated if her rabbits were hurt in anyway
Best of luck
Dan
[Edited by ScoobyDoo555 - 9/23/2003 3:37:24 PM]
23 September 2003, 03:37 PM
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I could get my sister to lend you her rabbit.
It has taken on her neighbour's dog (it got in my sister's garden) and won and raped a cat that was in the garden as well (different incident).
For some reason the dog and all cats no steer well clear of her garden now!
Huey is so cute as well... oh I forgot he has also knocked out her husband! That was just plain funny!
[Edited by MATTeL - 9/23/2003 3:38:13 PM]
It has taken on her neighbour's dog (it got in my sister's garden) and won and raped a cat that was in the garden as well (different incident).
For some reason the dog and all cats no steer well clear of her garden now!
Huey is so cute as well... oh I forgot he has also knocked out her husband! That was just plain funny!
[Edited by MATTeL - 9/23/2003 3:38:13 PM]
23 September 2003, 03:41 PM
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I sympathise with your situation totally. I happen to hate cats, not because of their behaviour (which comes naturally) but because of some of their owners behaviour.
I have similar arguments wth neighbours in the past, and it boils down to the fact that they cannot see they are being selfish by having an "occasional pet" that sits on their knee and purrs for 30 miutes a day, then spends the rest of the day killing other peoples pets, wild songbirds and rodents, damaging property and defacating everywhere.
My personal take on the matter is thus:-
1) the above irresponsible owners main argument for not controlling their pet is that it "its a cat and has to roam freely"
2) In this country it is legal to shoot, trap or poison any animal roaming wild that is not indigenous to the UK. It is actually ILLEGAL to release a non indigenous creature into the wild. For example, if you trap a grey squirrel it is illegal to release is back into the wild.
3) THEREFORE: owners that admit that their pets are uncontrollable and roaming wild are actually admitting their pets are vermin and not domestic animals and are therefore open to the same measures befitting creatures such as mink that do similar damage in the wild.
I havn't had cause to try this line of defence in a court yet, so I don't know how far you would get.
Having said that, said cat is out there playing amongst the traffic, winding up local dogs, foxes, badgers with absolutely no control from its owner, it would hardly be surprising if it disappeared and never came back, would it?
I have similar arguments wth neighbours in the past, and it boils down to the fact that they cannot see they are being selfish by having an "occasional pet" that sits on their knee and purrs for 30 miutes a day, then spends the rest of the day killing other peoples pets, wild songbirds and rodents, damaging property and defacating everywhere.
My personal take on the matter is thus:-
1) the above irresponsible owners main argument for not controlling their pet is that it "its a cat and has to roam freely"
2) In this country it is legal to shoot, trap or poison any animal roaming wild that is not indigenous to the UK. It is actually ILLEGAL to release a non indigenous creature into the wild. For example, if you trap a grey squirrel it is illegal to release is back into the wild.
3) THEREFORE: owners that admit that their pets are uncontrollable and roaming wild are actually admitting their pets are vermin and not domestic animals and are therefore open to the same measures befitting creatures such as mink that do similar damage in the wild.
I havn't had cause to try this line of defence in a court yet, so I don't know how far you would get.
Having said that, said cat is out there playing amongst the traffic, winding up local dogs, foxes, badgers with absolutely no control from its owner, it would hardly be surprising if it disappeared and never came back, would it?
23 September 2003, 03:44 PM
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If you do try to kill the ******, dont use a sub 12 ft/lb air gun, it will only end up with a 22 slug in its head and would run out of your garden and have a slow death, you'd be in a ton of **** then. A cross bow would be much more fun or you could just hit it with a shouvle or something ..
or you could just hit it with a shouvle or something ..
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23 September 2003, 03:49 PM
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Cats AFAIK are classified as a domestic animal.
It all comes down the the definition of whether the animal is roaming wild or not. I would suggest the majority of cats are very marginal when it come to this. Just because someone owns it or feeds it does not mean it isn't ferral.
[Edited by ajm - 9/23/2003 3:50:07 PM]
23 September 2003, 03:51 PM
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At the power levels your 410 will be running at the only place the cat will be going is the vets to have the pellet removed. You now have your name registed with the police and the first people they will be knocking up is you. You will be getting arrested on firearms offences and cruellty to animals.
Seriously airgunners don't need this kind of krap, its getting increasingly more difficult with tony blair trying to ban us. Don't do it. read www.airgunbbs.com for more info. Use a supersoaker instead, more fun especcially when you load it with washing up liquid and water drained from a washing machine.!!! It stinks and makes the cat do so for 2 - 3 days.
And as your stupid enough to admit what you want to do on here you deserve all you get.
The amount of red tape to get DEFRA to classify cats as feral would have you ripping your hair out.
Simon
[Edited by Simon C - 9/23/2003 3:58:41 PM]
Seriously airgunners don't need this kind of krap, its getting increasingly more difficult with tony blair trying to ban us. Don't do it. read www.airgunbbs.com for more info. Use a supersoaker instead, more fun especcially when you load it with washing up liquid and water drained from a washing machine.!!! It stinks and makes the cat do so for 2 - 3 days.
And as your stupid enough to admit what you want to do on here you deserve all you get.
The amount of red tape to get DEFRA to classify cats as feral would have you ripping your hair out.
Simon
[Edited by Simon C - 9/23/2003 3:58:41 PM]
23 September 2003, 03:52 PM
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Cats are classed as wild animals.
If you shoot it you will be breaking the law and I, for one, would not hesitate in reporting you if you're daft enough to admit to it on here.
I can understand your frustration but you appear to be seeking to get your own back on your obnoxious neighbours by attacking their pet. My, that's big of you!
If you shoot it you will be breaking the law and I, for one, would not hesitate in reporting you if you're daft enough to admit to it on here.
I can understand your frustration but you appear to be seeking to get your own back on your obnoxious neighbours by attacking their pet. My, that's big of you!
23 September 2003, 03:53 PM
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A Feral cat is one that lives in the wild or 'untamed' state. The cat in question is NOT feral.
I think you need to be careful before you proceed, as a cat is classified as a domestic animal it will be protected under law, although what they are I don't know.
I think you need to be careful before you proceed, as a cat is classified as a domestic animal it will be protected under law, although what they are I don't know.
23 September 2003, 03:54 PM
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Simon C has a good point. Shooting sports do not need any more bad publicity.
The troublesome feline might just disappear with no evidence whatsoever.....
The troublesome feline might just disappear with no evidence whatsoever.....
23 September 2003, 03:57 PM
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It's sad that you nipper was so upset with the loss of his pet rabbits, if it wasn't the cats a fox would have got them sooner or later, you have to take the blame for leaving them out.
Consider another scenario - I live next door to you and your rabbits come in my gaden an destroy all my flowers and vegetables. How would you feel when I knock on your door and present you with a brace of dead rabbits ( cleanly shot of course ).
Consider another scenario - I live next door to you and your rabbits come in my gaden an destroy all my flowers and vegetables. How would you feel when I knock on your door and present you with a brace of dead rabbits ( cleanly shot of course ).
23 September 2003, 04:03 PM
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Are cats counted as vermin unless they have collars on? Better remember to take it off after shouting the cat. A supersoaker full of poo water and red dye sound like a safer bet.
23 September 2003, 04:04 PM
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A Feral cat is one that lives in the wild or 'untamed' state. The cat in question is NOT feral.
the point is that some so called domestic cats behave and live exactly like a wild animal, i.e. they are not controlled and are allowed to roam free causing whatever mayhem they may.
A dog in a similar situation would be captured and impounded.
The question is what is the distinction between a domestic cat and a domestic cat gone feral (your spelling works better
)I agree that in practise the law will probably side with the moggy owner simply because historically cats have been shot at for no good reason. However, I am trying to point out that it should not be as clear cut as you make out.
I guess its the same as most things, in the event the law lets you down, there is only one other course action open to you.
23 September 2003, 04:10 PM
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I can understand your frustration but you appear to be seeking to get your own back on your obnoxious neighbours by attacking their pet. My, that's big of you!
If his neighbours refuse to take responsibility for their "pet" then what do suggest he does?
well?
23 September 2003, 04:10 PM
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You have obviousley sized up the cat's owners as fair game, that is why you threaten to shoot the cat, my money says the man of the house is not a 17 stone bricklayer 
[Edited by mj - 9/23/2003 4:12:00 PM]
[Edited by mj - 9/23/2003 4:12:00 PM]
23 September 2003, 04:12 PM
#25
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Seriously airgunners don't need this kind of krap, its getting increasingly more difficult with tony blair trying to ban us
I'm going to ring back the police tonight, as the PC who came to my house wasn't sure of the situation.
It goes without saying that they'd prefer I didn't do it. If I get told that arrest will follow the shooting, then I'm sure the cat will just have to disapear.
(I've already done the super soaker bit, and the things keep coming back)
23 September 2003, 04:17 PM
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Shooting the cat will not resolve anything. It will make things worse. It would be argued that Qwerty showed negligence in not locking up the Rabbits and the Cat being protected under various laws eg.
would potentially put him on the wrong side of the law and create a running battle with the people he, for the time being, has to co-exist with.
The cat killed the Rabbit's, that is a real shame ... they kill mice too, how are they supposed to differentiate ?
Animals Act 1971
Cats cannot be held guilty of trespass and the owners cannot be held responsible for any damage done.
Cats cannot be held guilty of trespass and the owners cannot be held responsible for any damage done.
The cat killed the Rabbit's, that is a real shame ... they kill mice too, how are they supposed to differentiate ?
23 September 2003, 04:17 PM
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^Qwerty^,
Having been devils advocate I suppose I better suggest a few other alternatives...
1) Some zoos sell lion/tiger poo that is said to ward off smaller cats
2) You can buy infra-red PIR activated sonic devices that are supposed to scare off animals when they trip the beam
obviously there is no guarantee that either will work, or not stress out your own animals....
of course, knowing the above does not statistically alter the chance of an uncontrolled cat disappearing....
Having been devils advocate
I suppose I better suggest a few other alternatives...1) Some zoos sell lion/tiger poo that is said to ward off smaller cats
2) You can buy infra-red PIR activated sonic devices that are supposed to scare off animals when they trip the beam
obviously there is no guarantee that either will work, or not stress out your own animals....
of course, knowing the above does not statistically alter the chance of an uncontrolled cat disappearing....
