LG John

Over the years I’ve had various attempts to bulk up in the gym but never with any massive success. When I was younger I used to be in the gym every second day hitting the weights hard for 2-3 hours but it would seem (from what I’ve learned since) that this was a naive approach when I was on such a basic diet at the time (pizza and chips, etc!).

I’m now putting in less time at the gym but have concentrated a bit more on what I’m eating. The problem is that I’m not the sort of person that can get overly scientific about it I know that to become a total machine I’d need to know how much protein, calories, fat, etc is in everything I eat and how much I burned trying to make it so that I’d know exactly what is going in and coming out, etc.

What I’ve been doing is ensuring I get 2g of protein for every 1kg of body weight and I’ve been trying to eat continuously throughout the day. A typical day will have me up at 7am where I’ll have a bowl of cereal followed by an hour of kuk sool training (just light stretching, kicks, etc). At 8 I’ll usually have some toast with peanut butter or similar. At about 11 I’ll have a tune sanny (2 bits of bread with tuna in the middle) and then at 1 I’ll have 2 tuna sannys and a milkshake. When I get in from work at about 5 I might have a banana and graze on something else before going to the gym for a while. Upon my return I’ll have an evening meal, which will very often feature 360g of chicken. Later at night I’ll usually have something else before going to bed (usually something on toast like cheese or peanut butter). Throughout the day I’ll have a lot of milk and water.

I know its not massively scientific but is this likely to work (i.e. ensuring I eat quite a lot and ensuring I get about 160-180g of protein a day). I’ve started to notice subtle little changes in my arms and chest already but I fear it might just be fat

Also, can I realistically considerably change my shape/muscle size in say a year? What about strength, should I be able to get noticeably stronger over that sort of time period?

Any advice appreciated but please remember I don’t have the time or full commitment to start measuring out food accurately or making elaborate meals or going to the gym for an hour in the morning, again and lunch and then again in the evening. Ultimately my kuk sool training takes precedence over the gym but I would like to bulk up and get stronger if I can

Cheers in advance

P.S. Would Atkins work for bodybuilding? The calorie count would probably be quite low but you’d get loads of protein!

super_si

Eat protein still it comes out of your ears mines roughly 30-40g per meal

Breaky i'd surgest protein porridge slow to break down by your body. if not cereals with milk but add protein power to the milk.

Also scrap white for brown break. Every 2nd day for me is steak or a form of red meat. Also notice yesterday supermarkets sell cooked chickens for £2.50 i ate a whole chicken
i think for BB its 2/3 protein to 1/3 carbs.

Good luck

Si

Tiggs

lol....and they say atkins is bad for you

TelBoy

A year is plenty to see results Kenny.

Keep it simple - eat lots, train hard and heavy, preferably with a partner, but not for 2+ hours (what were you doing all that time?!). Focus on complex exercises like squats, bench presses and chins. No comment on Atkins, we don't want to go there again, you know my views. I never counted calories, i just ate loads, but did enough in the gym to burn it off.

People who don't make progress either don't eat enough, don't train with sufficient intensity (can't stress this enough), train too much, go boozing all weekend, don't do squats, don't have gym partners to motivate them, do too much other calorie-burning cardio stuff, or don't get enough rest.

ozzy

Got to agree with Si and Telboy. Eat lots, train very hard and heavy and don't overdo things.

There's a few muscle-heads in my local gym and they spend about half the time I do. Difference is I'm doing lots of CV work and they're just banging in the 3-4 sets and about 10 reps per exercise. Shouldn't take anywhere near 2hrs for a good workout.

As Telboy says concentrate on the basics like squats, bench press, barbell curls, military presses and pull-ups.

Telboy/Si,

What's the best way to pack on muscle in terms of weight vs reps. I was always told to do low reps, but with very heavy weights to gain size and strength.

You've then got the average 10 reps with a heavy'ish weight or light weights and lots of reps for muscle endurance.

Any comments on the different approaches?

Stefan

TelBoy

In my experience, higher rep sets were good for one thing - pump. Which is all very well, but isn't the quickest route to size/strength increases. Also, i liked the challenge of heavy weights, so i put more effort into high weight workouts.

Against that though, continual heavy/low rep workouts can be draining on your joints, so i always put in (begrudgingly!) the odd light(er) workout.

But for me, i reckon the single biggest contributor to my progress was with forced reps and strip sets. I trained like a nutter sometimes, and all the big guys i see train are similar. Screaming in the gym just for effect is a waste of energy, but those guys who are really going for it, are those who will make changes to their bodies. I used to train till i almost couldn't do another rep even on the girlie weights.

So in conclusion, to pack on mass; higher weights, lower reps. And keep challenging your personal bests on a regular basis, it's a great way to maintain focus.

corradoboy

I'm not too good on all the scientific stuff, can't be @r5ed. But a mate of mine produces Muscle & Fitness mag and so has read almost every issue for the last couple of years. He isn't too interested in it either as it's just work to him, but he reckons that inside every ripped up muscle bound meat packer is a lardy fat g!t trying to get out. If you're lean to start with, you'll never bulk up like Arnie. Just look at the crap they shovel down their necks. 3000 calorie crash weight gain, cannot do you any good.

"I'm not fat, I'm just big boned"

milo

you're going to need to give some more info.. specifically:

height
weight
training split
main exercises you're using
main goal (is it strength - powerlifting, or muscle size - bodybuilding you're after)

essentially, it takes a while to pack on serious muscle. 1 year should have got you a decent base tho. for beginners you should see massive improvements in strength with a year of correct training and diet.

you need to create a calorie surplus to pack on muscle. atkins will NOT work for this!

you also need to rest plenty!!!

CC

good advice offered ....

just my two pence - be consistent! dont do 3 weeks on, 1 week off etc and still expect to gain...also be patient, it's a long drawn out process. u need to put in alot of effort and dedication to get anything out of it.

getting a training partner is a deffo plus cos it'll make u go to the gym even when ure not feeling up to it, but try and get a decent partner who'll motivate u...my partner just moans when we do heavy movements such as deadlifts and squats , thing is though he never makes gains either!

grovesy

Get yourself some anabolic assistance injection form not tablets, very harsh on the liver and plenty of protein. You will start seeing a change in strength and size with in a month.

LG John

That's what I was interested to hear - I expected the calories played as important a role as the protien and that it wouldn't work.

I usually do 3 sets of 10 reps at a weight that will have me nailed at the end of each set. The problem with doing lower reps, (say 4-5) is that after I've done it I'm not pumped up and feel like I could shift fairly heavy weights around 5 mins later. Even if you don't feel sore and wrecked have you still done a good workout if you've shifted all you could possibly shift 4 times over 3-4 sets?

In terms of my goal: I'm trying to gain both strength and size. I don't want to look like a bodybuilder. The 'mens health' cover guy look is probably about right although I appreciate that without mega commitment I'd never look so trim. If I could have muscles that are about that size then I'd be a happy chap. Bascially I want there to be a clearly defined chest, and nice curvy arms where you can make out each muscle clearly. I don't need to do much if any leg work at all as my legs get all the work they need at kuk sool and my training goal with them is to keep them flexible, fast, nible and with very high endurance.

My immediate goal is to get the bulk (and I understand the fat will come with it) and then my next phase will be to develop those muscles at their new size to be strong and well defined and hopefully fast and flexible too.

LG John

Yeah, my **** will shrink in size and I'll have no strength in my erections

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

No change from normal then from what I've heard

yoza

SB,
It does'nt shrink your ****, it shrinks your *****!

It makes you more sexually active and does not effect your errection.

It does effect your sperm count, it lowers it.

And it all depends on how much you take anyway.

After a course you need to take Pregnyl(chorionic gonadotrophin, is this where the words gonads comes from I wonder?) which kicks your ***** off, to start them producing testosterone again. As they actually close down because you have so much in your body through the injections.

Dont believe the hype.......

PS. It works, but it could permanently damage your health, or even worse kill you. If you suffer from any kind of depression dont bother. When you come off them depression is increased 10 fold.
Also if you are at all aggresive dont bother as the same applies.

Steer clear of anything that says "for vetenary use only"...mooo

Later Yoza

[Edited by yoza - 8/21/2003 1:36:41 PM]

LG John

ha ha ha

Why brown bread over white btw?

grovesy

"Yeah, my **** will shrink in size and I'll have no strength in my erections"

stick to playing on Bulliten boards mate you clearly know f*ck all about this

daiscooby

To achiece growth at the speed you are looking for I have 2 words:

DECA
WINSTROL

Nuff said

P.S. Go to a Drug Scheme Needle Exchange Centre for your pins, Blues and Greens.

LG John

I don't have a problem in admitting that but its a well known fact that most people wouldn't touch steriods with a barge-pole. If there is a drug that I can take with no harmful side effects that will get me to my goal quicker then I will - All I'll say is you'll have a hard job convincing me of such a drug!

milo

"I usually do 3 sets of 10 reps at a weight that will have me nailed at the end of each set. The problem with doing lower reps, (say 4-5) is that after I've done it I'm not pumped up and feel like I could shift fairly heavy weights around 5 mins later. Even if you don't feel sore and wrecked have you still done a good workout if you've shifted all you could possibly shift 4 times over 3-4 sets?"

yes... feeling the pump is not necessarily an indication of a good workout.. and not feeling the pump isn't a good indication of a poor workout. how many sets total are you doing for each body part, and what does your split look like?

essentially you have to find what works for you. i pyramid during my work sets, and go as close to failure as i can on each set (i workout alone, so this is more difficult on bench press of course). so suppose im doing 4 sets, i might do 10 reps, 8 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps.. each with an increasing weight which takes me to failure (AFTER warming up correctly of course).

"I don't need to do much if any leg work at all as my legs get all the work they need at kuk sool and my training goal with them is to keep them flexible, fast, nible and with very high endurance."

No, no, no and no! you MUST do squats. they will pack on muscle on YOUR WHOLE BODY. these are one of the three basic compound movements that are imperative to do no matter what your goals. you need to have a leg day - or you'll end up looking unbalanced. squatting will cause your body to pack on muscle all over - including your arms.

"My immediate goal is to get the bulk (and I understand the fat will come with it) and then my next phase will be to develop those muscles at their new size to be strong and well defined and hopefully fast and flexible too."

definitely the right approach - bulk up bigger than you want to be, and then cut after that to remove the fat whilst still maintaining the muscle.

getting your bodyfat percentage periodically measured is a good way to stay on track.

milo

i HOPE this is a joke.

advising someone who is clearly nowhere near their natural limit that juicing is a good idea is irresponsible at best.

[Edited by milo - 8/21/2003 1:58:55 PM]

milo

not only are you advising him to run a cycle WAY WAY WAY too early on, but there are MUCH better beginners cycles.

not to mention the fact that he seems concerned about erections - deca is NOT what to use in that case.

[Edited by milo - 8/21/2003 1:58:12 PM]

joni

That would have been so much "harder" if you had spelt bulletin correctly

TelBoy

What's Deca got to do with erections milo?

Personally i always found anabolics increased my sex drive...

LG John

Some good advice there Milo, cheers How does squats built your arms though??

Also, how can I develop monster wrist strength? Having strong wrists is very important to kuk sool

I quite like the idea of putting the weight up and the reps down over 4 sets - might give that a go

milo

you'll have trouble getting them (aka deca-dick).

test will. i assume thats probably what you used?

the problem with test comes from if you use too much and your body then shuts down it's natural production.

TelBoy

Ah, so we're dipping into the realms of abuse then?

Didn't want *another* steroid myth to start circulating.

milo

squats are one of the most anabolic movements. they will cause your body to product more test, which will of course pack on muscle all over.

deadlift heavy WITHOUT straps or wraps. (use chalk tho!). you could do behind the back wrist curls.. but i find that doing most of my lifts without any assistance from wraps etc has caused my wrist and in particular grip strength to increase considerably.

works for me.. so for example on back day, you might do:

deadlifts (10,8,6,4)
weighted pullups (10,8,6,4)
bent-over rows (10,8,6,4)

after warming up with lighter weights of course

milo

absolutely. since this thread is intended for lifters, i'd assumed that it was common knowledge that the correct use of juice can give massive gains. abuse is wherer the problems come.

correct use means the proper coming off of a cycle... proper knowledge of sides... and the fact that beginners should not be doing cycles - even light ones.

LG John

Interesting I'd never thought of it like that!

ChrisB

After you've done a heavy work out (to the point you can't lift another rep on your last set on the various exercises), do you always ache?

I sometimes find it'll be 24 hours before I feel a bit of ache (ie the in bi's or tri's), where as the guy I go with can be stiff a lot sooner?

All done to individual bodies?