The Euro???
15 August 2003, 08:35 PM
#1
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Don't shoot my head of about this, if it has already been done, but I would like to know peoples real views rather then what the media want us to believe
[Edited by ianmiller999 - 8/15/2003 8:36:00 PM]
[Edited by ianmiller999 - 8/15/2003 8:36:00 PM]
16 August 2003, 07:26 PM
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16 August 2003, 08:03 PM
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If we can benefit mankind by everyone having enough to eat, drink and a home then great !
If that means a gradual movement towards an integrated Europe then so be it. We look different, speak different and sometimes think different. We shoud celebrate the differences and learn from each other.
The Euro is a means, in part, to reduce the differences that should not be celebrated. My country could do so much more if we try - let's make the foreigners those who destroy our future by shallow, selfish and immoral means.
Fight for all our futures !
Baz
If that means a gradual movement towards an integrated Europe then so be it. We look different, speak different and sometimes think different. We shoud celebrate the differences and learn from each other.
The Euro is a means, in part, to reduce the differences that should not be celebrated. My country could do so much more if we try - let's make the foreigners those who destroy our future by shallow, selfish and immoral means.
Fight for all our futures !
Baz
16 August 2003, 09:11 PM
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Our current government is corrupt enough at the moment 
Put our currency in the hands of an even bigger bunch of crooks, and all but the elite classes are doomed
The Euro is not just about money, but about power. Trouble is that it is a one-way process
mb
Put our currency in the hands of an even bigger bunch of crooks, and all but the elite classes are doomed
The Euro is not just about money, but about power. Trouble is that it is a one-way process
mb
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16 August 2003, 10:56 PM
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For Euro and EU just take a look at Checzkoslovakia and the USSR... look what happened there..oh and Yugoslavia...... is that what we are headed for? You cannot make people of differing cultures live together in harmony. Won't work, we'll all be killing each other before long.
17 August 2003, 01:23 AM
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If we can benefit mankind by everyone having enough to eat, drink and a home then great !
If that means a gradual movement towards an integrated Europe then so be it.
If that means a gradual movement towards an integrated Europe then so be it.
17 August 2003, 02:31 AM
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The economies of the countries involved are too different for it too work IMO. Just look at the problems Eire have had in controlling inflation as the exchange rate set centrally is too low.
God only knows the problems Poland and other east europeans will bring.
Switzerland has in right in my opinion, and the perceived lack of trade opportunities doesnt affect them.
God only knows the problems Poland and other east europeans will bring.
Switzerland has in right in my opinion, and the perceived lack of trade opportunities doesnt affect them.
17 August 2003, 09:26 AM
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Surely you are talking about communism, not an integrated Europe?
17 August 2003, 11:01 AM
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It kinda makes you wonder how much money there is to be made from cheese, penknives and cuckoo clocks though
The Swiss have it all sorted, they only joined the UN this year so joining in with the rest of the EU is a long, long way off !
17 August 2003, 11:27 AM
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Adopting the Euro means eventual federation with Europe. That means that our whole lives would be controlled by the commissioners. Those are the ones who were caught out having lost immense amounts of European money without trace so they sacked themselves, took the severance pay, carried on doing the job because they said there was no-one else to do it, and then reapppointed themselves,keeping the severance pay of course. Our votes would mean nothing since we would be part of the Euro government and our MEP's would be only a fraction of the size of the rest of the parliament.
So we have to remember that being part of Europe means being told how to live by the commissioners, can you trust them?, and being effectively disenfranchised. We should not be conned by that superficial argument of being able to influence Europe. The only influence would come from the small group in absolute power and that would be for their own benefit-certainly not ours.
Fill your boots Big Sinky, I cant help being cynical about it all! It seems like our only defence against the con artists.
Les
[Edited by Leslie - 8/17/2003 10:23:35 PM]
So we have to remember that being part of Europe means being told how to live by the commissioners, can you trust them?, and being effectively disenfranchised. We should not be conned by that superficial argument of being able to influence Europe. The only influence would come from the small group in absolute power and that would be for their own benefit-certainly not ours.
Fill your boots Big Sinky, I cant help being cynical about it all! It seems like our only defence against the con artists.
Les
[Edited by Leslie - 8/17/2003 10:23:35 PM]
17 August 2003, 01:38 PM
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I have no wish to join the Euro until all countries in the system at the moment obey the rules completely for a minimum period of five consecutive years, and then just maybe I'll consider it. But seeing as they have only have the Euro for two years and Germany, France and Italy, are all currently braeking the rules governing national spending defecits, I'll have to wait at least another 5 years.
20 August 2003, 09:01 PM
#19
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that's it we are totally in their hands , whoever THEY are
Currently the UK's economy is the strongest in Europe and is thus being used as the main argument to stay out! But in the longer term, once everything settles and the world gets used to it) then the Euro zone will undoubtedly become one of the top 3 world economies (if not #1) and little old Britain will gradually sink lower and lower until we're worthless!
Then we HAVE to join the Euro (or Dollar) and our say in Europe will be negligable and 'THEY' will control us... If we join now, while out economy is so strong, then yes, in the short term our economy will take a hit to support the weaker countries in the Euro zone, but overall, 'WE' will be in the driving seat behind the Euro economy and it will almost certainly be the #1 world economy!
Just my €0.10 worth
21 August 2003, 05:38 PM
#26
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Lets face facts - there is currently no fecking way the government would win a referendum
Thats why we haven't had one yet!
When we do (if!) it will be on their terms so win or lose they ultimately win....
And who says we dont trust the government...LOL:P
Thats why we haven't had one yet!
When we do (if!) it will be on their terms so win or lose they ultimately win....
And who says we dont trust the government...LOL:P
22 August 2003, 01:14 PM
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a few points from the "no" camp.
from a logical standpoint, the euro will only be as strong as the weakest economies in the chain. italy, greece, portugal etc etc. stronger econcomies will have to take up the slack at their own expense. that means us.
from a trading perspective, 53% of our trade is with the US and the RoW; 47% is intra-EU (DTi figs), suggesting that our economic centre of gravity performs best as a bridging point between the old world and the new.
from a sovereignty point of view, entering the euro will mean we give up independent economic governance, particularly over taxation and interest rates. this is naturally a very thick, thin end of an even thicker wedge. economic union will inevitably integrate foreign, health, education, defence and law & order policies in its slipstream.
from an independence point of view, power will gradually become transferred from the house of commons to the EU, an undemocratic body well documented for its a) incompetence b) secrecy c) lack of accountability d)profligacy and e) corruption.
from a practical point of view, it will take at least 20 to 30 years to see if the euro can work. to see what kind of cycle it has and to see if it can deliver what the politicians say over the long term.
ask yourself: would you voluntarily take a seat on the test flight of an experimental new aircraft that had been cobbled together from components of variable quality, piloted by individuals of questionable probity and prone to say anything to convince you otherwise? no. you wait and see if the thing crashes - or flies.
i'm all for being part of a mutual trading sphere within the EU - i think it would be madness to withdraw - but i do not want to be a sub-state in giscard d'estaing's grand vision of a federal europe. the whole thing stinks of a self-serving franco-german political axis: two nations who have an historical track record in the untrustworthy, the unbelievable and the unconscionable.
i value our independence, such as it remains.
the euro is a preposterously undemocratic exercise in political vanity as it stands.
we've been here before several times and much the same sentiments are being voiced. check out some of leslie's articulate posts on this (thread started by swaussie a few months back?): the key point is the underhand devolution of sovereignty that comes with it. labour do not like being questioned on the sovereignty issue because they know that it is the achilles' heel - so they just bleat "little englander" at anyone with a differing opinion.
the EU will have to be re-invented as a democratic body before i consider it. the negatives outweigh the positives. and the negatives are profound.
don't waste your vote when the referendum comes.
[Edited by Holy Ghost - 8/22/2003 1:18:22 PM]
[Edited by Holy Ghost - 8/22/2003 1:21:51 PM]
from a logical standpoint, the euro will only be as strong as the weakest economies in the chain. italy, greece, portugal etc etc. stronger econcomies will have to take up the slack at their own expense. that means us.
from a trading perspective, 53% of our trade is with the US and the RoW; 47% is intra-EU (DTi figs), suggesting that our economic centre of gravity performs best as a bridging point between the old world and the new.
from a sovereignty point of view, entering the euro will mean we give up independent economic governance, particularly over taxation and interest rates. this is naturally a very thick, thin end of an even thicker wedge. economic union will inevitably integrate foreign, health, education, defence and law & order policies in its slipstream.
from an independence point of view, power will gradually become transferred from the house of commons to the EU, an undemocratic body well documented for its a) incompetence b) secrecy c) lack of accountability d)profligacy and e) corruption.
from a practical point of view, it will take at least 20 to 30 years to see if the euro can work. to see what kind of cycle it has and to see if it can deliver what the politicians say over the long term.
ask yourself: would you voluntarily take a seat on the test flight of an experimental new aircraft that had been cobbled together from components of variable quality, piloted by individuals of questionable probity and prone to say anything to convince you otherwise? no. you wait and see if the thing crashes - or flies.
i'm all for being part of a mutual trading sphere within the EU - i think it would be madness to withdraw - but i do not want to be a sub-state in giscard d'estaing's grand vision of a federal europe. the whole thing stinks of a self-serving franco-german political axis: two nations who have an historical track record in the untrustworthy, the unbelievable and the unconscionable.
i value our independence, such as it remains.
the euro is a preposterously undemocratic exercise in political vanity as it stands.
we've been here before several times and much the same sentiments are being voiced. check out some of leslie's articulate posts on this (thread started by swaussie a few months back?): the key point is the underhand devolution of sovereignty that comes with it. labour do not like being questioned on the sovereignty issue because they know that it is the achilles' heel - so they just bleat "little englander" at anyone with a differing opinion.
the EU will have to be re-invented as a democratic body before i consider it. the negatives outweigh the positives. and the negatives are profound.
don't waste your vote when the referendum comes.
[Edited by Holy Ghost - 8/22/2003 1:18:22 PM]
[Edited by Holy Ghost - 8/22/2003 1:21:51 PM]
22 August 2003, 03:32 PM
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that's as maybe but you can't judge its viability on the exchange rate alone. the euro has insufficient track record as yet.
you also have to look at the implications for sovereignty and the devolution of our governmental powers.
eg, do you feel your taxes should be set by the prevailing conditions in the UK or the prevailing conditions across several disparate countries in the eurozone? should your mortgage rate be set according to the bank of england's interest rate and in turn, your lender - or be set by the european bank based on a multiplicity of pan-border social and political considerations that may not be in your favour?
did you have the opportunity to vote for romano prodi? did you have the opportunity to vote for the EU commissioners? what input have you been permitted to the EU constitution?
these are crucial considerations because they affect the fundamental fabric of our independence and the accountability to the electorate of parliament.
as long as the EU remains as undemocratic, stifling and corrupt as it is, the euro project will only ever be a fudge that is paid for by its strongest economic contributors - to the glee of the weakest members and the dismay of the rest.
we are already helping underwrite the economies of italy, greece and portugal. don't see why we should be expected to do more when we are already a massive net contributor to the EU.
just my thoughts: it'll be down to individual instinctive feel at the referendum ballot box.