ID cards on the way. £40.
06 July 2003, 11:05 AM
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States in the Times today that David Blunkett will be introducing compulsory ID cards for which we will be forced to pay £40 for.These cards will carry biometric info.ie fingerprint.
The will be able to be updated as you get older for a small charge.
I can see the cards having to be presented at Doctors, hospitals etc to able you to get treatment. That way you will have to get one rather than say that you wont bother.
I have got no objection to having a card as I ve got nothin to hide but I do object to being forced to pay for it.
I also think it wont take long for the criminal fraternity to produce a passable copy of the cards.
Chip.
The will be able to be updated as you get older for a small charge.
I can see the cards having to be presented at Doctors, hospitals etc to able you to get treatment. That way you will have to get one rather than say that you wont bother.
I have got no objection to having a card as I ve got nothin to hide but I do object to being forced to pay for it.
I also think it wont take long for the criminal fraternity to produce a passable copy of the cards.
Chip.
06 July 2003, 11:14 AM
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Another Labour feckin Tax. £ 40. No way am i paying that. This country is completly bxxxxed. Long live a peoples revolt because enough is enough. I supose we have to pay for asylum seekers some how. Jesus im feckin angry ,
Blunkett, shove it up your ***
06 July 2003, 12:02 PM
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we the Tax payers would pay anyway! if not direct then through income tax or petrol Tax and of course the Asylum seekers will pay probably about £100 for a fake on down the Pub!
A total waste of time and money they will never invent a system that can't be beaten and they know that! It is just another bit of Big Brother.
That is also the reason we get no say because once the Public know that it will be undermined with Fakes and only Genuine people will be monitored they wouldn't let it in.
Just think get to Doctors and you have forgotten you card so they send you away and then you need another 3 week wait for a new appointment.
Still if it "saves one life it is worth it" damn that is the wrong slogan for this stupid idea now what is this spin doctors slogan?
A total waste of time and money they will never invent a system that can't be beaten and they know that! It is just another bit of Big Brother.
That is also the reason we get no say because once the Public know that it will be undermined with Fakes and only Genuine people will be monitored they wouldn't let it in.
Just think get to Doctors and you have forgotten you card so they send you away and then you need another 3 week wait for a new appointment.
Still if it "saves one life it is worth it" damn that is the wrong slogan for this stupid idea now what is this spin doctors slogan?
06 July 2003, 09:41 PM
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I have got no objection to having a card as I ve got nothin to hide but I do object to being forced to pay for it
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06 July 2003, 09:43 PM
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I don't see how they can force anyone to pay for it?
I think it's a good idea as long as it can't be forged easily - which, of course it will be.
I think it's a good idea as long as it can't be forged easily - which, of course it will be.
06 July 2003, 09:56 PM
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I bet the migrants will get them for free
06 July 2003, 11:17 PM
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Look you pay for it through tax if they don't take it direct!!!!!
You pay for ever thing they do when they give you Tax breaks it means they give you your own money back! When you get your Pension it is your money they have looked after and then given back to you!
It will be forged the amount of money in People traficing means what ever system they bring in will be beaten or corupted by the smugglers and it will be to cumbersome and inefficeint to work.
Also i don't want them knowing more about me, i am honest and i work and pay my tax i want them to leave me alone and deal with the criminal's. I am fed up with them spying on me and monitoring my Mobile calls, E-mails and Fax's and yet all the crimes that effect me go up and so do my Tax's and they legalise what they can't beat whilst subjecting the Tax paying public to more and more intrusion.
You pay for ever thing they do when they give you Tax breaks it means they give you your own money back! When you get your Pension it is your money they have looked after and then given back to you!
It will be forged the amount of money in People traficing means what ever system they bring in will be beaten or corupted by the smugglers and it will be to cumbersome and inefficeint to work.
Also i don't want them knowing more about me, i am honest and i work and pay my tax i want them to leave me alone and deal with the criminal's. I am fed up with them spying on me and monitoring my Mobile calls, E-mails and Fax's and yet all the crimes that effect me go up and so do my Tax's and they legalise what they can't beat whilst subjecting the Tax paying public to more and more intrusion.
07 July 2003, 09:51 AM
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[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3048386.stm
Dodgy as hell - what happens to all the information stored on the card? What will it be referenced against?
If one day I decide to join Greenpeace - will this information be used against me?
Will employers be able to access this information and make decisions against me?
How secure is the data?
What would happen if the data is hacked?
On the plus side I can see it easier to prevent benefit fraud which is costing £billions.
The main thing I find so hideously offensive is the fact that the government is assuming they are morraly correct.
Will there be a referendum on this? Last time I checked this was a democracy!
Another issue that is only half stated - yes there are other countries in Europe that have identity card schemes - they also have a written constitution, one thing we do not have!
anyway - my 2p worth of fury in a bag
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3048386.stm
Dodgy as hell - what happens to all the information stored on the card? What will it be referenced against?
If one day I decide to join Greenpeace - will this information be used against me?
Will employers be able to access this information and make decisions against me?
How secure is the data?
What would happen if the data is hacked?
On the plus side I can see it easier to prevent benefit fraud which is costing £billions.
The main thing I find so hideously offensive is the fact that the government is assuming they are morraly correct.
Will there be a referendum on this? Last time I checked this was a democracy!
Another issue that is only half stated - yes there are other countries in Europe that have identity card schemes - they also have a written constitution, one thing we do not have!
anyway - my 2p worth of fury in a bag
07 July 2003, 10:01 AM
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I think this is a fantastic idea. No more questions about who you are at the bank or when you go to collect a parcel etc - you have irrefutable proof its you, especially if there is a smart card with personal info on it.
Like a driving licence, it will have a picture - how can anyone steal yours and pass it off as them? The personal info stored on the card will be encrypted (in a similar way to smart card Visa etc) and therefore difficult (at least prohibitive) to hack. After a while, your ID card number will open windows of oppurtunity - like faster treatment under the NHS for NI paying british citizens, not bogus illegal immigrants. 18 year olds will ALWAYS be served in pubs, as they will have proof of their age (not everyone has a passport or driving licence at 18)
I think this should be compulsory. If a criminal robs a bank etc, a national comparison against DNA or picture evidence will be quick and hopefully painless - meaning the police have an easier job catching crooks.
I vote for RFID on the cards, and sensors in your home - if the crims have their ID cards with them, you will know who they are.
If you are innocent, and an upstanding non criminal person, you have nothing to fear from ID cards - its unlikely the government will ever want to track cars etc to reduce speeding, but ID cards are a good way of economising and cutting the bottom line.
Services to those who deserve them and have paid for them!
Damian
Like a driving licence, it will have a picture - how can anyone steal yours and pass it off as them? The personal info stored on the card will be encrypted (in a similar way to smart card Visa etc) and therefore difficult (at least prohibitive) to hack. After a while, your ID card number will open windows of oppurtunity - like faster treatment under the NHS for NI paying british citizens, not bogus illegal immigrants. 18 year olds will ALWAYS be served in pubs, as they will have proof of their age (not everyone has a passport or driving licence at 18)
I think this should be compulsory. If a criminal robs a bank etc, a national comparison against DNA or picture evidence will be quick and hopefully painless - meaning the police have an easier job catching crooks.
I vote for RFID on the cards, and sensors in your home - if the crims have their ID cards with them, you will know who they are.
If you are innocent, and an upstanding non criminal person, you have nothing to fear from ID cards - its unlikely the government will ever want to track cars etc to reduce speeding, but ID cards are a good way of economising and cutting the bottom line.
Services to those who deserve them and have paid for them!
Damian
07 July 2003, 10:18 AM
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>>its unlikely the government will ever want to track cars etc to reduce speeding, but ID cards are a good way of economising and cutting the bottom line.
soz mate, but a load of tosh. If you let the government allow 'sponsored' registration of all people, you have lost the battle. Do you really think they will just stop there? After catogorizing (sp) all people in the country, why not just erode a few more civil liberites?
Even the government acknowledge that benefit fraud will not be stamped out successfully by this. Far and away the biggest loss of benefit fraud is not through identification of people, but of people not giving correct income information, etc.
It won't do a rat's *** about terrorisim either. No national ID-Card system will stop terrorist attacks. FFS, we give terrorists assylum! they are fully paid-up members of our state!
Before reading anything else, please see this site. http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/idcard/uk/uk-idcard-faq.html
The most scary think will be identity fraud. The more secure the system is, the more people will trust it. the more people trust it, the better it is for fraudsters. People who trust are unlikely to check very well
Just look at credit card fraud. Identity theft. Passport fakes.
Doesn't take long before it all looks like a bit of a dogs dinner. And the best part? we pay 3Billion quid to find this out.
Why not spend 3Billion quid on customs officer, police, civil servants.
soz mate, but a load of tosh. If you let the government allow 'sponsored' registration of all people, you have lost the battle. Do you really think they will just stop there? After catogorizing (sp) all people in the country, why not just erode a few more civil liberites?
Even the government acknowledge that benefit fraud will not be stamped out successfully by this. Far and away the biggest loss of benefit fraud is not through identification of people, but of people not giving correct income information, etc.
It won't do a rat's *** about terrorisim either. No national ID-Card system will stop terrorist attacks. FFS, we give terrorists assylum! they are fully paid-up members of our state!
Before reading anything else, please see this site. http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/idcard/uk/uk-idcard-faq.html
The most scary think will be identity fraud. The more secure the system is, the more people will trust it. the more people trust it, the better it is for fraudsters. People who trust are unlikely to check very well
Just look at credit card fraud. Identity theft. Passport fakes.
Doesn't take long before it all looks like a bit of a dogs dinner. And the best part? we pay 3Billion quid to find this out.
Why not spend 3Billion quid on customs officer, police, civil servants.
07 July 2003, 10:22 AM
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Forced to pay- NO WAY!
The idea of taking money directly for a scheme that many don't agree with is an example of arrogance beyond belief. Pay for it through the treasury out of taxation is one thing but another "stealth" tax allowing them to make claims about not raising income tax is disgusting.
The idea of taking money directly for a scheme that many don't agree with is an example of arrogance beyond belief. Pay for it through the treasury out of taxation is one thing but another "stealth" tax allowing them to make claims about not raising income tax is disgusting.
07 July 2003, 10:27 AM
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Damian666:
I can't quite work out if your post is sarcastic or not.
Assuming it isn't: You highlight the scary part of relying on ID cards. I go in to my bank, withdraw £1000. But it isn't me, it's someone who has faked my ID. I will have a hell of a job proving it. As the ID card SAID it was me, so it must be.
In general, I don't mind ID cards. I just think that if society becomes reliant on them, then there are lots of problems with people faking them. I would give it a week after they are released before someone produces a hacked version.
Steve.
I can't quite work out if your post is sarcastic or not.
Assuming it isn't: You highlight the scary part of relying on ID cards. I go in to my bank, withdraw £1000. But it isn't me, it's someone who has faked my ID. I will have a hell of a job proving it. As the ID card SAID it was me, so it must be.
In general, I don't mind ID cards. I just think that if society becomes reliant on them, then there are lots of problems with people faking them. I would give it a week after they are released before someone produces a hacked version.
Steve.
07 July 2003, 11:41 AM
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Damian, I hope you're joking
ID cards will always be easy to fake. Wasn't the 'impossible to fake' theory wheeled out in respect of passports, cash etc? it's big brother by the back door - nooooooo!
ID cards will always be easy to fake. Wasn't the 'impossible to fake' theory wheeled out in respect of passports, cash etc? it's big brother by the back door - nooooooo!
07 July 2003, 12:52 PM
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We are talking encrypted information on a smart-card chip. AFAIK there hasn't been fraud based on smart card technology due to the encryption algorithm used to encode the information. You will find it hard to fake DNA for pete's sake! Along with fingerprints and a posible retina/iris scan on the card we would have to be talking seriously committed fraudsters.
An ID card is not an invasion of civil liberties. Why should people have the right to remain anonymous in a welfare state? We pay takes and national insurance to benefit other contributors and ourselves - not spongers. If I want to claim benefits, I would like it to be quick and easy - my ID card could contain my NI number, and therefore reference to the I.R. to when I was last paid. This would mean that I could start recieving benefits then not in a few weeks. How many banks are happy to wait six weeks (in my experience) for payment? Especially if its not the first time you are made redundant?
Trust is inherent in any system, that is why it needs to be made harder and harder to defraud and cheat. You are correct in saying that people will check less, but it only takes one of these items to be incorrect for a problem to arise. The biometric information that is proposed to be stored on these cards will disallow the majority of forgerys!
We pay taxes for us not anybody else - people who cheat the system deserve nothing. ID cards will help us along the way.
Damian
An ID card is not an invasion of civil liberties. Why should people have the right to remain anonymous in a welfare state? We pay takes and national insurance to benefit other contributors and ourselves - not spongers. If I want to claim benefits, I would like it to be quick and easy - my ID card could contain my NI number, and therefore reference to the I.R. to when I was last paid. This would mean that I could start recieving benefits then not in a few weeks. How many banks are happy to wait six weeks (in my experience) for payment? Especially if its not the first time you are made redundant?
Trust is inherent in any system, that is why it needs to be made harder and harder to defraud and cheat. You are correct in saying that people will check less, but it only takes one of these items to be incorrect for a problem to arise. The biometric information that is proposed to be stored on these cards will disallow the majority of forgerys!
We pay taxes for us not anybody else - people who cheat the system deserve nothing. ID cards will help us along the way.
Damian
07 July 2003, 12:55 PM
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In addition to my above post, we are talking about faking the ID of an individual, not the ability to withdraw cash. There is obviously the need to have a valid bank card for the bank, or some other proof of ID.
FFS, to join a video club you need 3 forms of ID. Its not going to change with ID cards - its just another, government endorsed ID scheme, of which we have none.
[Edited by damian666 - 7/7/2003 12:55:30 PM]
FFS, to join a video club you need 3 forms of ID. Its not going to change with ID cards - its just another, government endorsed ID scheme, of which we have none.
[Edited by damian666 - 7/7/2003 12:55:30 PM]
07 July 2003, 01:18 PM
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I don't believe for one minute that an ID card would facilitate the payment of benefits. It is in the interests of the govt to make these as difficult to obtain as possible and historically that's just what they've done.
A voluntary or free ID card is one thing, the compulsion aspect sucks.
I'm proud to be a citizen of one of the few "free" countries left in the world although I'm seriously starting to doubt that status as our freedoms are eroded.
A voluntary or free ID card is one thing, the compulsion aspect sucks.
I'm proud to be a citizen of one of the few "free" countries left in the world although I'm seriously starting to doubt that status as our freedoms are eroded.
07 July 2003, 01:29 PM
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>>AFAIK there hasn't been fraud based on smart card technology due to the encryption algorithm used to encode the information
pap. the cards can be frauded, it only takes a bit more nouce and equipment that costs a bit more.
>>Why should people have the right to remain anonymous in a welfare state
Why should I be catalogued by the system if I don't accept welfare? OF course civil liberties will be affected. You really think the government will just "lock up all the data" in a nice secure environment? bollocks. The government is notorousley (SP) terrible at implementing IT solutions, and they are usally nasty dinosours with a habit of being 'leaky'
Remember the furrora about the data privicy scheme that blind-man-blunket tried to impose, where private (citizen) data will be available to any government departments, local businesses and local councils? You really want to have your DNA catalogued and genetic-specific information about yourself being openly traded by companies?
>>Along with fingerprints and a posible retina/iris scan on the card we would have to be talking seriously committed fraudsters
wouldn't you consider yourself serious if you could fraud people for large sums of money, and no-one ever checks?
>>its just another, government endorsed ID scheme, of which we have none
well, 3 or 4 have been proposed over the years, but thankfully they have all been seed as the waste of time they are.
>>my ID card could contain my NI number, and therefore reference to the I.R. to when I was last paid
You've already got this form of identification. It's called a NI card. I don't see how this will be better than the 'ID card' when applying for benefits...
pap. the cards can be frauded, it only takes a bit more nouce and equipment that costs a bit more.
>>Why should people have the right to remain anonymous in a welfare state
Why should I be catalogued by the system if I don't accept welfare? OF course civil liberties will be affected. You really think the government will just "lock up all the data" in a nice secure environment? bollocks. The government is notorousley (SP) terrible at implementing IT solutions, and they are usally nasty dinosours with a habit of being 'leaky'
Remember the furrora about the data privicy scheme that blind-man-blunket tried to impose, where private (citizen) data will be available to any government departments, local businesses and local councils? You really want to have your DNA catalogued and genetic-specific information about yourself being openly traded by companies?
>>Along with fingerprints and a posible retina/iris scan on the card we would have to be talking seriously committed fraudsters
wouldn't you consider yourself serious if you could fraud people for large sums of money, and no-one ever checks?
>>its just another, government endorsed ID scheme, of which we have none
well, 3 or 4 have been proposed over the years, but thankfully they have all been seed as the waste of time they are.
>>my ID card could contain my NI number, and therefore reference to the I.R. to when I was last paid
You've already got this form of identification. It's called a NI card. I don't see how this will be better than the 'ID card' when applying for benefits...
07 July 2003, 01:31 PM
#29
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Freedom of identity should almost be a burden to a civilised community of people - whereas you can do and go as you please without control, so can criminals. I feel that this will be a good way of tracking down criminals, fraudsters (especially with benefit fraud) etc.
If there were less people claiming benefits fraudulently, then it would be easier for eligible people to claim. The government would love it if all the benefit fraudsters stopped claiming tomorrow. For those who actually need money it would be a godsend as well!
Damian
If there were less people claiming benefits fraudulently, then it would be easier for eligible people to claim. The government would love it if all the benefit fraudsters stopped claiming tomorrow. For those who actually need money it would be a godsend as well!
Damian
07 July 2003, 01:32 PM
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Damian666,
But haven't you seen Minortiy Report?? You just get a change of eyes....
Along with fingerprints and a posible retina/iris scan on the card we would have to be talking seriously committed fraudsters.