mega_stream

Joint decision not to have the MMR jab on our 1 year old yesterday, I asked the nurse what the options were to get single jabs, she said she "wasn't allowed" to give me advice

I then rang round some local private hospitals and they also all took the same stance, said that they are only licensed to do the MMR.

Has anyone else taken their sprogs for seperate jabs? how much are they?

Where do I go to get them done, I'm in Kent if anyone knows of someone local.

Cheers

J

robski

MS,

nightmare eh?

You wont get sensible answers out of anyone attached to the NHS as they *** sing from the same song sheet.

We eventually had the MMR done on our daughter at 18 months old

we took the following precautions:
- she didnt show even the remotest sign of being ill (had read reports that suspected that being ill at the time of the jab could be what caused the problems)
- after reading a lot of stuff realised that the incidence of problems seemed to be mainly with the second jab (if there is any at all) so we had time to look into alternatives for dose 2.

doesnt answer your original question but maybe this helps I dunno

robski

MattW

Megastream - Mail me off line - I have loads of info, my daughter had the separate jobs.

ChrisB

This is related:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2993588.stm

brickboy

There's an incredible amount of FUD on this issue: we read the evidence backwards and forwards and just had the normal 3-in-1 jab done on our two, as evidence seemed to be inconclusive (IMHO et etc, I'm not gonna argue about it with anyone )

However, it's your decision, just make sure you're informed.

But whatever path you choose, make sure your child has the jabs -- I've heard more than one parent saying "Well, it doesn't matter if they get measles / mumps / rubella, it'll be NATURAL immunity ..."

It will be natural, if the child survives without being left deaf, sterile, brain damaged or dead!!! These are killer diseases FFS ...

TopBanana

There's no evidence that MMR causes any damage at all

Alpine99

bb...
interesting point and as my little one is due her MMR I've been trying top find out about measles, mumps, rubella etc.. with little joy..

I know measles can be a killer but mostly in the 3rd world surely? We presented Chloe at the Dr's with suspected measles when she was 6 months old.. the dr's all thought it was measles but no-one was panicing... Then the old guy of the practice pronounced that it wasn't and sent us home.. I had mumps when I was 18, painfull but I wasn't brain damaged.. Rubella.. can't find anything about this...

mega_stream

Matt YHM

I'm not thinking of missing the jabs altogether, just finding it tricking so far getting info

MattW

John

YHM back. Hope it helps.

Matt

brickboy

Alpine, it varies in seriousness but measles can be a killer, it isn't the "a few days in bed with spots and a bit of a fever" that it's often portrayed as being.

In the West we are reliant on "herd immunity" to keep these diseases in check. This is where a sufficient number of the population has immunity to stop any real chance of an infectious outbreak. In the UK right now, immunisation rates against measles etc are falling quickly, and there are concerns that overall immunity will be low enough to risk a real measles outbreak.

Bravo: one of the arguments against Andrew Wakefield's research is about whether the measles virus isolated in the gut of autistic children is there because of the MMR jab, or if it just happens to be there because of environmental factors. Lots of arguments on both sides.

But you're right: it can look like Russian Roulette. Might be worth talking to your GP about the risks now he's 5 (your son, not the GP )

POSHBIRD

It is very confusing all the talk about linking MMR and autism, but at the moment talk is all it is.

These diseases are very serious and its the children who are not being vacinated against them that are bringing them back into schools etc.

When you think about it, you cannot even take your dogs and cats to kennels if they have not been vacinated due to risk of spreading diseases!.

I had both my children vacinated at 15 months and they have a booster before they start school as well.

I think the choice should be there for single jabs, but the jabs need to be done one way or another.

robski

Regarding measles.

Our GP said if you have ever seen the results that measles can leave........you would have the jab done.

He also said the area you live in makes a big difference. Apparently we live in a "good" area where there is high take up of MMR and thereby less chance of getting Measles if you dont get jabs done. However, some won't be so lucky and will be in hot spots of low takeup.

I guess the thing that sunk it for me was if we got it done we were going with the recommended practice of the professionals there to advise us (I mean the GP certainly not the government).

If Ellie had a reaction thats a bloody nightmare, but there is more chance of catching it naturally anyway, which maybe would have left exactly the same problems?

Damned if you do, damned if you dont

robski

Alpine99

I think the problem is there's a general dis-trust of public information.. B Liar didn't help by not telling the public what he'd chosen to do.. My worry is that EVEN IF there was a link between autism and MMR that it would never be publicly acknowledged as it would no doubt open the litigation flood gates..

It feels more of a political issue than a public health debate.

chrome

worrying stuff....

altho tbh Measles/mumps/rubella never hurt us lot as were were growing up did it??
not me or anyone I know..

HOWEVER:

My daughter had MMR when she was small (shes now six)

Alpine99

Chrome that's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of..

I had measles when I was a kid as well as mumps in later life.. I'm fine.. I know these diseases can be killers but so can the
***** but, rarely in this country.

I'm certainly against giving an injection to guard against diseases which won't cause her any long term ills.

scoobymoo

My brother had measles as a kid and he nearly lost the sight in one eye and was left with a terrible squint which took two operations to correct. Even now 25 years later he can't see very clearly through that eye. Also as a trained molecular biologist with over 15 years of experience most of which was spent on working on vaccine research for HIV I can tell you that Wakefields theories are from a scientific point of view fundamentally flawed or if I was being less polite absolute bullsh*t. The list of flaws in his work is too long to go into now but IMHO he is just a man who saw a way to get famous by playing on parents fears.

[Edited by scoobymoo - 6/17/2003 2:03:00 PM]

alter_ego

GPs are not impartial. See the fourth paragraph of news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2987186.stm "GPs said parents were unwilling to take their advice to allow their children to be given the jab because of the fact that part of their income is linked to MMR uptake."
AIUI, unless they reach a certain % takeup of MMR, their NHS income is docked.

As to comments in the thread about children surviving rubella unscathed; the danger is not to the child who gets rubella, the danger is to the unborn child of a pregnant mother to whom the rubella infected child comes into contact; AIUI severe deformities etc.

scoobymoo

Bravo 2 zero what about all the children who don't have autism but you can detect the virus in their gut. In fact its not even the virus that is detected but fragments of its genetic material detected by PCR there is no proof there is any virus there. Also if there was any virus there this in no way proves a link to autism. Wakefields central arguement is that having a triple vaccine in some way is too much for the immune system, hogwash we fight of multiple infections all the time,a common cold will involve the main causitive virus usually rhinovirus and several secondary bacterial infections. He also argues that the gut becomes infected with the measles virus causing it to become leaky and this allows something (he can't specify what)to enter the brain. Again hogwash,the brain is protected by the blood brain barrier which does not allow infectious agents to pass. There is alink between bowel problems and autism but these bowel problems are found whether or not the child has had the MMR jab and are usually autoimmune in nature such as Crohns disease. The bottom line is do you want to take the very real chance your child could go blind or worse or trust one scientist who says don't have the MMR or the thousands who say its fine.

brickboy

There is increasing evidence of a genetic link to autism / Asperger's and similar conditions.

A friend of mine has two profoundly autistic children. When his wife was 6 months pregnant with the second child, a consultant was surprised that no-one had told them there was a 50%+ risk of the second child being autistic. Apparently it's more to do with the gene combination from mother and father, rather than an individual thing.

It is fair to say that Andrew Wakefield's findings are being treated with increasing scepticism by the medical community. Also, the researchers who worked on the same project from which Wakefield took his findings disowned his conclusions.

However, that's medical PR for you. If a doctor says it, no matter how untrue, it's news. And it doesn't matter how untrue it is, there will always be a doctor that will say it

mega_stream

Oh well, my dad spoke to his Dr today while he was having an appointment, she advised go to France for the jabs!

Go to France, move to France more like, I'm getting more and more p1ssed off with living in this p0xy country run by t0ssers [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

wheelwright

MattW YHM

MattW

YHM back

Leslie

I agree with Bravo2zero. I would be very suspicious of the risk of the MMR multi vaccine, especially after the evidence which has been presented with regard to the risk of Autism. I keep thinking of the damage to Gulf War Vets by the combined vaccinations they were expected to have at the time and I don't care that the Government says as usual that there is no evidence to prove it was dangerous. Its seems commonsense to be concerned about the effect of the immune system on a multiple vaccination. Lets see some positive evidence to say that it can't happen then!

I can only assume that the Government is so insistent on MMR because they have a "job lot" of MMR vaccine in stock and their "risk engineers" have told them that the risks to children are outweighed by the costs of the single vaccinations. What else can we expect from such a mean and selfish bunch of people? Rather like the education advice being touted by a Prime Minister who did exactly the opposite for his own children.

RichiW

So where can the seperate jabs be bought from in this (sh!te hole of a)country then??