car crash - insurance dispute!
23 May 2003, 01:50 PM
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*** mods - please give this some air time 
***
in feb of this year when i was making a right hand turn on a main road the person following decided to undertake me only to see parked cars, pulled back out, skidded and clipped the rear of my car.
he didn't report the accident to his insurance co. now i've been fobed off for months by them saying he wont fill out an accident form etc. now he has and they say he claims i wasn't indicating. (i was almost stationary when he hit me). so, neither of us have wittnesses, he hasn't claimed for the damage to his car (another young driver who didn't want a claim and is hoping this will all go away).
today they asked me if i was fully comp (i'm TPFT) as they said i could get the repairs done while the dispute goes on. well, i could see a knock-for-knock coming on! now she said they might settle on a proportion basis but are awaiting written stuff from their insured. i bought a disposable camera, took photos, annotated them, drew diagrams etc. this claim is only for 600 quid FFS, not exactly rocket science.
so, while i wait to hear back does anyone know where i stand? i.e. if they come back and don't admit liability etc what can i do? the way i see it is that he says one thing, i say another and no-one can prove it. what i can prove are the facts, he ran into the back of me. surely that's him down for not following at a safe distance, etc?
i'm really pissed off as only last week they said they thought it won't go to court etc coz he ran into the back off me. now a dispute team are saying something totally different.
i wish i wasn't so honest and had of claimed whiplash and all that crap that everyone else does. even the 600 quid repair was cheap as i didn't demand a new bumper @ 200 quid (though now i will as the assesor said he was happy to authorise it). and i did get other quote for new panels etc @ 1500-2000. i do my best to help these people and they just **** me over. this has been 4 months FFS - i'm just too soft, that will change now.
any advice greatly appreciated
cheers
steven
***in feb of this year when i was making a right hand turn on a main road the person following decided to undertake me only to see parked cars, pulled back out, skidded and clipped the rear of my car.
he didn't report the accident to his insurance co. now i've been fobed off for months by them saying he wont fill out an accident form etc. now he has and they say he claims i wasn't indicating. (i was almost stationary when he hit me). so, neither of us have wittnesses, he hasn't claimed for the damage to his car (another young driver who didn't want a claim and is hoping this will all go away).
today they asked me if i was fully comp (i'm TPFT) as they said i could get the repairs done while the dispute goes on. well, i could see a knock-for-knock coming on! now she said they might settle on a proportion basis but are awaiting written stuff from their insured. i bought a disposable camera, took photos, annotated them, drew diagrams etc. this claim is only for 600 quid FFS, not exactly rocket science.
so, while i wait to hear back does anyone know where i stand? i.e. if they come back and don't admit liability etc what can i do? the way i see it is that he says one thing, i say another and no-one can prove it. what i can prove are the facts, he ran into the back of me. surely that's him down for not following at a safe distance, etc?
i'm really pissed off as only last week they said they thought it won't go to court etc coz he ran into the back off me. now a dispute team are saying something totally different.
i wish i wasn't so honest and had of claimed whiplash and all that crap that everyone else does. even the 600 quid repair was cheap as i didn't demand a new bumper @ 200 quid (though now i will as the assesor said he was happy to authorise it). and i did get other quote for new panels etc @ 1500-2000. i do my best to help these people and they just **** me over. this has been 4 months FFS - i'm just too soft, that will change now.
any advice greatly appreciated
cheers
steven
23 May 2003, 02:11 PM
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Push them all the way and get your insurance company involved. Your insurance company will handle it for you (and cannot accept knock for knock without your permission). Tbey always bottle it and pay out in full the day before the court case (I had two separate cases about 5 years ago).
Very clear in law that it's his fault - whether you were indicating or not, he ran into the back of you, therefore his fault.
Good luck!
Gordo
Very clear in law that it's his fault - whether you were indicating or not, he ran into the back of you, therefore his fault.
Good luck!
Gordo
23 May 2003, 02:26 PM
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as my cover was TP only my insurance company wont handle it - up to me 
i just think i'm gonna get shafted and want to know what my options are when they turn round and say "nope, we're not accepting liability" - i.e. can i take them to court?
i just think i'm gonna get shafted and want to know what my options are when they turn round and say "nope, we're not accepting liability" - i.e. can i take them to court?
23 May 2003, 02:29 PM
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Primary liability lies with the other driver regardless of whether you were indicating or not, and to use the official jargon, the other driver (the defendant) "failed to keep a proper lookout" and "failed to drive in an appropriate manner".
Unfortunately because it is under £1000 value this is a small claims case and if it went to court the third party would not be required to pay any out of court costs such as legal fees etc. However, your insurers could still issue proceedings and let a District Judge decide on liability. Normally once proceedings are issued this often has the required affect, but if the insurance company won't do it, then you can do it yourself and claim for your out of pocket expenses as well as the cost of issuing the summons.
If your insurers are switched on, they can appoint an accident reconstruction expert who will have no trouble proving liability, but it will cost which if you are paying out of your own pocket is not particularly attractive, but if your insurers foot the bill then it may again have the desired affect.
As an alternative, you could issue proceedings against the other driver directly, making him personally liable for all of your costs, and this also often helps in the claim being settled quickly and without too much hassle.
Unfortunately because it is under £1000 value this is a small claims case and if it went to court the third party would not be required to pay any out of court costs such as legal fees etc. However, your insurers could still issue proceedings and let a District Judge decide on liability. Normally once proceedings are issued this often has the required affect, but if the insurance company won't do it, then you can do it yourself and claim for your out of pocket expenses as well as the cost of issuing the summons.
If your insurers are switched on, they can appoint an accident reconstruction expert who will have no trouble proving liability, but it will cost which if you are paying out of your own pocket is not particularly attractive, but if your insurers foot the bill then it may again have the desired affect.
As an alternative, you could issue proceedings against the other driver directly, making him personally liable for all of your costs, and this also often helps in the claim being settled quickly and without too much hassle.
23 May 2003, 02:33 PM
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thanks TC. i just want to be prepared to be knocked back. as a student (about to graduate and be unemployed!) i have no way of funding any sort of legal case (and it's only 600 quid!). can the CAB or whatever help me? i.e. can i take him to small claims court somehow with legal aid?
23 May 2003, 02:43 PM
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Legal Aid is no longer available for Traffic Accidents, it was replaced by a conditional fee agreement which can only be done through solicitors, and the value of the case has to be over £1000 for injury accidents and £5000 for damage only. Because your claim is under these values, they would not be able to recover the cost of the premium that is taken out on your behalf, and as I said legal fees cannot be claimed either.
The cost of issuing proceedings will be around £50, and CAB will certainly be able to assist you, however, check with your insurance both car and house contents and see whether you have a legal expenses policy attached. Many policies do come with such cover, and this may provide the funding for you to at least seek legal advice and assistance butpaid for by the insurance.
The cost of issuing proceedings will be around £50, and CAB will certainly be able to assist you, however, check with your insurance both car and house contents and see whether you have a legal expenses policy attached. Many policies do come with such cover, and this may provide the funding for you to at least seek legal advice and assistance butpaid for by the insurance.
23 May 2003, 04:23 PM
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Well if it is small claims does not Midget have the upper hand? He wants £600 or £800 including the bumper. He can take action against either the other driver or the other drivers insurance company, without employing lawyers etc.
Even when it goes to court Midget represents himself (herself), so has no costs. The insurance company will be wanting to emploty lawyers, but can't get their costs back. £600-£800 does not buy much lawyer time therefore insurance company will not want to go to court, and will therefore pay up when push comes to shove!
Even when it goes to court Midget represents himself (herself), so has no costs. The insurance company will be wanting to emploty lawyers, but can't get their costs back. £600-£800 does not buy much lawyer time therefore insurance company will not want to go to court, and will therefore pay up when push comes to shove!
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23 May 2003, 04:46 PM
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District Judges always look more favourably towards the little guy than those who employ solicitors and the like in small claims cases. Providing he is happy to represent himself and can ensure that he gets all the key points over, then he has every chance of success.
The only reason I mention LEI is for the very reason that many people do get nervous when appearing before a court or in a legal enviroment, and sometimes cases are lost for that very reason.
I spend a lot of time in Court, and I see cases lost so often because of the claimants nervousness, but you are right he can represent himself, which is what I thought I said when I mentioned seeing the CAB for assistance.
The only reason I mention LEI is for the very reason that many people do get nervous when appearing before a court or in a legal enviroment, and sometimes cases are lost for that very reason.
I spend a lot of time in Court, and I see cases lost so often because of the claimants nervousness, but you are right he can represent himself, which is what I thought I said when I mentioned seeing the CAB for assistance.
23 May 2003, 04:59 PM
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thanks for the info guys. i guess i would be nervous, but no more than at a job interview (etc) so i could certainly make my point.
i guess i just have to wait to see what the insurance co say. is it them or their insured i take legal action against? (i promise i'll go talk to the CAB for more info!)
cheers
steven
i guess i just have to wait to see what the insurance co say. is it them or their insured i take legal action against? (i promise i'll go talk to the CAB for more info!)
cheers
steven
23 May 2003, 05:06 PM
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Your action is against the third party as you will ask it will be their name that appears on the summons, but they will probably pass it straight over to their insurance companies with a request that a defence and representation be prepared.
23 May 2003, 05:19 PM
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go to your doc now complaining of a niggling back pain that started after the accident but is getting worse. Ask the other ins co to put the case on hold as you will probably want to make a claim for injury as well. They will fob you off, and the chances of you getting injury compo is slim, but it might make them try to settle it before you decide to add the injury claim.
23 May 2003, 06:31 PM
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fb - i would but i'm not the dishonest type. i've had whiplash before and didn't even claim.
the buggers where keen to know if there was any personal injury and now i can see why!
the buggers where keen to know if there was any personal injury and now i can see why!
23 May 2003, 07:19 PM
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guys - another thing...the insurance company (Zurich) haven't contacted me *once* in 4 months, it's all been me. and they blamed their client for not filling out an accident report as a 2 month delay - now they say they want more info from him, well, what if he never replies. i.e. how long can this go on for? how long can they **** me about? (is there a law regarding sorting these things out in a certain time frame?)
last week they said they had all the facts and it should be sorted out in days...*******s. wonder if they have a complaints department (though i guess they'll be no more helpful).
i'm really beginning to get very pissed off!
last week they said they had all the facts and it should be sorted out in days...*******s. wonder if they have a complaints department (though i guess they'll be no more helpful).
i'm really beginning to get very pissed off!
23 May 2003, 08:25 PM
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2 points to make really.
A. Do you have Legal cover on your policy, if you do you can use it to pursue the case in court.
B. If you don't get anywhere with the guy's insurance company you could always take it to the Financial Ombudsman or ABI. The info for them should be in your policy booklet. If not you can write to them at:
Insurance Division Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza
183 Marsh Wall
London E14 9SR
Tel: 0845 080 1800
Email: enquiries@financialombudsman.org.uk
They might be able to help as they did with a previous claim I had.
A. Do you have Legal cover on your policy, if you do you can use it to pursue the case in court.
B. If you don't get anywhere with the guy's insurance company you could always take it to the Financial Ombudsman or ABI. The info for them should be in your policy booklet. If not you can write to them at:
Insurance Division Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza
183 Marsh Wall
London E14 9SR
Tel: 0845 080 1800
Email: enquiries@financialombudsman.org.uk
They might be able to help as they did with a previous claim I had.
23 May 2003, 09:16 PM
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Write to the ABI @
51 Gresham Street
London EC2V 7HQ
Tel: 0207 600 333
or web
http://www.insurance.org.uk
Wifey is the expert in insurance. She works for an insurance company.
51 Gresham Street
London EC2V 7HQ
Tel: 0207 600 333
or web
http://www.insurance.org.uk
Wifey is the expert in insurance. She works for an insurance company.
23 May 2003, 10:29 PM
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arent there special third party claims companies that chase this stuff up for you and bill it all to the other peoples insurance company, making them much more keen to solve it quickly?
24 June 2003, 05:48 PM
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well at last i've received a letter from the insurance company, and, get this...they offered me 50/50 liability!!! hahahaha for someone running into the back of me.
i guess there is no point writing back etc, and saying, please wise up and admit full liability. i guess this will need to go to court. off to speak to the CAB tomorrow if i get time.
i guess there is no point writing back etc, and saying, please wise up and admit full liability. i guess this will need to go to court. off to speak to the CAB tomorrow if i get time.
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