polarbearit

Sounds like an easy one but I have strange requirements and questions so if anyone can help I'd be grateful (or even suggest a forum where I may be able to get help I can understand). I've been round all the local audio shops and had entirely conflicting advice!

Here are my strange requirements and desires!

Required features/Questions!

1. I'm after a DVD player which will play all region DVD's including RCE and branching ones. Is there a list of such DVD's anywhere

2. Sound quality must be good, I am going to use it with a DD/DTS 32" widescreen TV. I don't know what feature I need the DVD player to have, I guess it just needs an digital optical or Coax input so I can plug that into the TV? Or must it have built in DTS/DD decoding on the DVD player as well?

3. Picture quality must be good I have watched a few DVD's and some seem grainier than others. I don't want it to freeze up at all and it need to be able to play any film (so no matrix problems etc!)

Desirable Features

4. Decent MP3 playback - ie play music in directories, I have 12gb of MP3's, and if I can get playing back on the DVD I will burn them to CD and buy an incar MP3 CD player too!

5. This is a reasonably long shot, but I have a few movies in ASF/MPEG and AVI(DivX) format, If possible I'd like to be able to burn these to disk and watch them on the DVD player! I'm not sure what I need to do to make these play, I believe most DVD's support VCD so any details on converting the above formats would be great.

Thanks in advance for the help...
I have looked at the Techtronics website, which is pretty comprehensive and answers most points, however I am reluctant to buy mail order as I have no idea what the quality of the playback will be like. Today I saw an LG3200 for £99.99 in Richer sound which does most of what I want, but I don't know if it does RCE disks? Anyway also saw if demoed against a £250 sony player which was really shamed by the LG. The Sony ??300 was blocky in comparison.

What should I look for, I am happy to spend up to £250 as long as there are definate advantages compared with spending less.

Scan seem to sell a couple of OK players, their SC2000 at around £150 and a Cyberhome 528 at about £120, both of which seem to do much of what I want and are fairly cheap, I'd be interested to know what the quality of these players was and how they compare to the Panasonic/Pioneer cheaper models interms of quality.

Anyway I think that is it for now,

Thanks

Jon

InvisibleMan

Jon, I'm looking into this as well so everyone is welcome to say whether i'm talking cr@p or not.

Firstly if you are using DD/DTS then you must get 6speakers, it would be soooo much better than the tv speakers. Not worthwhile getting a fancy TV otherwise.

The usual scenario is to get a WS TV with nicam stereo. Then get a home entertainment package - DD/DTS DVD & 6speakers.

The reason why DVDs fail, eg.Matrix, Gladiator,Disneys Fantasia is that there is not enough memory in the DVD player. I suspect this will be more of a case with a builtin decoder(DD/DTS), the transfer my also be much slower...i don't know. As the tv is a DTS decoder then the dvd doesnt.

Region1 films(USA) seem to be much grainier than UK, it all depends were they get the prints from. UK generally gets the better distributors.Though unfortunately UK are not as good on extras because of multiple languages so have to drop DTS(major bummer!) This is set to change because the UK now has a DTS coding house. (reissues iminant,again )

VCDs are quite easy to do, just need a fast computer. Quality ain't too hot but you can get 1 films worth on 1 cd. DVD quality can only take 20mins on 1 cd. If theres anyone that can improve on that i would like to know, ta

I'll be back if i've forgotten anything.

InvisibleMan

A note on the sony DAV300, its region protected so chipping it with sony will cost another £100. unless theres a hack out there.

polarbearit

I was really not impressed with the sony anyway (as I said back to back with LG, sony was much grainier!), but with regard to chipping, it seems much cheaper to buy the DVD chipped already from someone like

Mr.Cookie

Jon

Avi and asf will need to be converted to mpeg before writing to cd, i have a pioneer 525 and i would say it's not any better or worse than a friends sc2000 with the bonus of mp3 playback.

Si
Ps if you want any freeware asf/avi to mpeg converters mail me

Mr.Cookie

Ps LG is very good to and like you say for a ton why not just check the specs of mp3's they'll playback ie 192kb compression

polarbearit

Mr Cookie, you have mail!

Jon

InvisibleMan

Checkout

polarbearit

bugger, it appears that particular LG doesn't play CDr's ****, back to the drawing board, I thought it was too good to be true...

I'll keep watching the scan player I think!

Jon

M_D_B

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by InvisibleMan:
<B>Firstly if you are using DD/DTS then you must get 6speakers, it would be soooo much better than the tv speakers. Not worthwhile getting a fancy TV otherwise.

The usual scenario is to get a WS TV with nicam stereo. Then get a home entertainment package - DD/DTS DVD & 6speakers.

The reason why DVDs fail, eg.Matrix, Gladiator,Disneys Fantasia is that there is not enough memory in the DVD player. [/quote]

I'd go with the seperate Amp, 5 speaker and subwoofer option, the TV speakers are never going to be as good as seperates.

From all the sites I visit, I'm not sure you can blame the players for all disc problems. The Matrix caused problems because it pushed the boundaries of the DVD Video specification, which is why Samsung upgraded their 709, The Gladiator Disc 2 didn't conform to the specs, so it was re-issued correctly. Disney DVDs don't meet DVD Video specs either (and don't apparently carry the DVD Video logo), can't blame the players unfortunately.

I've seen a hell of a lot of criticisms for Techtronics flying about, both on the uk.media.home-cinema newsgroup, and the BBS at

polarbearit

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GavinP:
<B>Jon,

I have a SC2000 which is good but not superb in the picture quality/sound stakes. Where it is very good is the net support:

MarkQ

Check out the what Hifi awards -
Toshiba SD-210E at £230 one its class

GavinP

Jon,

I have a SC2000 which is good but not superb in the picture quality/sound stakes. Where it is very good is the net support:

APJ

Check out:

GavinP

Jon,

The Scan is a good player but not class-leading. Again build quality is good (it doesn't feel cheap) but not as solid as the Pioneer I had.

The picture is better than the 606d and one of my mates Samsung 807 (both fairly old players).

The younger Sony 735 another mate has is better and the latest Pioneer (and Toshiba) players are apparently better still.

I bought mine as I wanted DVD Audio but wasn't willing to spend huge amounts of money (i.e. £500 or less) and it was a "stop gap".

On our three-year-old Panasonic 36" WS, the picture is good and due to the size, flaws are pretty obvious (some TV channels are awful quality) but the Scan chipset is the limitation compared to the latest players.

The launch of these "clone" players is good as it has made the big players go away and spend serious time improving their newer models quality so they can justify a price premium.

I would go for the Pioneer...

Thanks

Gavin

InvisibleMan

I've been looking on the webpages on these 2 topics & have noticed that all the pioneer dvd players/amps have stopped the ones with THX,DD-EX & DD-ES. Have they stopped making them?

polarbearit

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GavinP:
<B>I bought mine as I wanted DVD Audio but wasn't willing to spend huge amounts of money (i.e. £500 or less) and it was a "stop gap".[/quote]

Ok, more confused than ever now! What is the point of having a DVD player with built in dolby decoding? Surely if the DVD player has this you still need a 5 channel amp in order to hear the sound... so you may as well just get a 5.1 amp and any old DVD?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I knew what I wanted, it turns out I still don't understand!!

Thanks

Jon

Richiehash

have a look at

InvisibleMan

DVD/Dolby Digital/home entertainment with loads of speakers -
the guide to make it more confusing.


You dont need an amp with DD decoder if the dvd player has DD5.1/DTS decoding. Example the Sony DAVs300 is a complete dvd player/radio/amp all in one very slim case, thats why its popular & does sound damn good.

1.connect coaxial cable to digital out from DVD player to Amp with DD5.1 for decoding.
or
2.dvd internal decoder (DD5.1/DTS/ES/EX logos on front) to an amp WITHOUT DD/DTS decoder. Decoded audio is sent from dvdplayer via phono outputs into 6inputs on the amp.

Sounds:

Dolby digital 2.0/stereo

Dolby pro-logic 2.0/stereo (4 channels but rears are mono) thats why its pointless spending more on a tv with DPL.

Dolby Digital 5.1 6 seperate channels

DTS less compression than 5.1, greater channel seperation means sound can be "heard from the empty space between each speaker", also clearer sounds and less hiss. Only have it if your a sound buff.

Dolby Digital 6.1 EX(tended)
DTS ES(extended surround) 6.1
These are 5.1 with a centre channel between rear speakers (Star Wars I has this)

THX a mark where the film print & soundtrack is of equal clarity whereever it seen/heard from.

7.1 out now

Hope this helps




[This message has been edited by InvisibleMan (edited 30 September 2001).]

polarbearit

Thanks Invisible, it's all a little clear!

Just out of interest what does the 7th speaker do in 7.1 then??

Jon

InvisibleMan

To add (its gonna confuse everything )

TVs are coming with a new form of surround sound which expands the stereo seperation using the 4 speakers in the tv but are not as good as 6 seperate speakers:

Virtual Surround
Virtual Dolby surround
Spatializer
TruSurround
Virtual 3D sound

oh and now theres Sony 4D Digital Cinema Sound which has the normal 6 speakers but act like 10 virtual speakers

[This message has been edited by InvisibleMan (edited 30 September 2001).]

InvisibleMan

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by polarbearit:
<B>Thanks Invisible, it's all a little clear!

Just out of interest what does the 7th speaker do in 7.1 then??

Jon[/quote]

It just makes it sound better ok, you muppet

GavinP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by polarbearit:
<B> Ok, more confused than ever now! What is the point of having a DVD player with built in dolby decoding? Surely if the DVD player has this you still need a 5 channel amp in order to hear the sound... so you may as well just get a 5.1 amp and any old DVD?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I knew what I wanted, it turns out I still don't understand!!

Thanks

Jon[/quote]

Jon,

Dolby Digital(DD)/DTS/Pro-Logic are all Film sound formats. They have various new flavours which include additional rear "centre" speakers.

DVD Audio is the new replacement for CD (which uses DVD disks) and is much higher quality than CD. Not used for films at all.

DVD Audio decoders are usually in the DVD player but are not the same thing as having built-in Dolby Digital or DTS decoders.

Built-in decoders for DD/DTS are a waste of time now as buying a home cinema amp nowadays includes a much better quality decoder built-in. They were popular a few years ago when people had Pro-Logic amps with a six channel input. As you've said, some TVs also have decoders built-in now.

On my setup, I have a co-axial digital lead from the Scan to the Sony amplifier (which has built-in DD/DTS decoders). This carries DD/DTS/Pro-Logic from DVD to the amp.

If I get a DVD audio player, the same lead will be used for the same purpose but I will also have six phono cables leading to the Sony 6-channel input used just for DVD Audio.

DVD Audio and SACD are in the middle of a format war (a bit like Betamax and VHS all those years ago). They are both fighting to be the replacement for CD so the smart move is to wait a year to see who wins....

I hope this helps...

Thanks

Gavin

polarbearit

Thanks for all the help,

OK, I don't need DD/DTS in the DVD just a decent Amp or TV to do the decoding.

And as for DVD player, then Scan SC2000, Toshiba SD210 or Pioneer 444s are the shortlisted candidates. Will they all do DVD audio?

See the more I know, the more I want to know I'm afraid!

Anyway Thanks to everyone with the suggestions, I have signed up to the Scan group, which looks to have a great support network as well as great features, but reviews suggest the Sound and Graphics are not as good others. Maybe the Tosh or Pioneer would be better...

Jon

SeanG

A DVD Audio disc is a completely different format to a DVD Video disc.

You need a DVD Audio player to play the best quality 7 channel (or stereo) music on these discs.

As most people have DVD Video players and the Audio players are expensive and less common at the moment, a separate DD5.1 track is included on DVD Audio discs to allow them to be played on DVD Video players. This is of the same quality that you would get on a traditional DVD Video soundtrack of, say, a music concert. DVD Audio discs also can include video clips but these will not play on DVD Video players

If you buy a DVD Audio player this can also play traditional DVD Video discs.

I have got DVD Audio discs of Metallica's Black Album and LA Woman by The Doors and play them on my Wharfedale 750 DVD video player no problem (but only the DD5.1 tracks). Much better sound quality than the CD equivalent even played in this format.

Clear as mud?

Sean

GavinP

Jon,

I think I may have confused you more than helped....

In a nutshell, don't spend a lot of cash on a new DVD player now as in 12 months time, DVD players with DVD Audio capability will be much cheaper.

Currently, only expensive players can play DVD Audio as well as films etc.

Go for a fairly cheap DVD Video player - Scan or 444S.

Thanks

Gavin

polarbearit

Well I've just ordered the Scan today!
Seemed to do everything, and play everything, I'm not expect amazing sound/video but I figure that in 18months I'll need a new one anyway!

£119 +VAT on the today only, not a massive discount but a cheap player, by all in at about £150 with VAT,delivered etc, seemed fine, I hope I like it when it arrives!

Jon

kevin stanton

i bought a wharfdale from tesco's in january. no problem with it at all. region selectable and will play copied vcd's