Zapped by Camera ....how long to wait ?
26 February 2003, 02:27 PM
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Travelling to Maidstone from the Dartford Crossover/M25 I got zapped by a Gatso doing roughly 55-60 in the 40 limit on an A road at 5-6AM in the morning (no one else on the road) on 13th Feb.
Any ideas how long it'll take before I get my picture in the post ?
Any ideas how long it'll take before I get my picture in the post ?
26 February 2003, 03:18 PM
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I presume I'd get points and a hefty fine to help fund the War against Saddam ? Or buy John Prescott a few more full English breakfasts ?
30 quid must buy quite a few boxes of 5.56mm, though I'm sure the fine will be more than that.
30 quid must buy quite a few boxes of 5.56mm, though I'm sure the fine will be more than that.
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26 February 2003, 06:09 PM
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Not arguing just pointing out what I found.
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/crimertonip.htm
What form must the notice take?
It can be :-
a) given verbally at the time of the offence, or
b) by a summons being served on the offender within 14 days of commission of the offence, or
c) a notice of intended prosecution, specifying the nature of the offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, must be served on the offender, or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence, within 14 days of the offence.
These provisions are deemed to have been complied with unless or until the contrary has been proved (ie you will have to raise it).
If you have not been given the notice within 14 days (ignoring the day of the offence) then they cannot proceed against you unless an exception applies (see below).
However -
Exceptions & Get Outs
A notice sent by post must be dispatched so that it would reach the driver within the 14 days within the ordinary course of the post. If this is the case then it will have been deemed to have been served even if it is delivered outside the 14 day period.
That would realisticly give them 15 days max as first class post should be next day.
Stu...
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/crimertonip.htm
What form must the notice take?
It can be :-
a) given verbally at the time of the offence, or
b) by a summons being served on the offender within 14 days of commission of the offence, or
c) a notice of intended prosecution, specifying the nature of the offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, must be served on the offender, or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence, within 14 days of the offence.
These provisions are deemed to have been complied with unless or until the contrary has been proved (ie you will have to raise it).
If you have not been given the notice within 14 days (ignoring the day of the offence) then they cannot proceed against you unless an exception applies (see below).
However -
Exceptions & Get Outs
A notice sent by post must be dispatched so that it would reach the driver within the 14 days within the ordinary course of the post. If this is the case then it will have been deemed to have been served even if it is delivered outside the 14 day period.
That would realisticly give them 15 days max as first class post should be next day.
Stu...
26 February 2003, 06:17 PM
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Quoting from www.5ive-o.com:
Section 1(1) (c) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 states that before certain offences can be prosecuted:
A notice setting out the possibility of a prosecution must have been sent to the driver or registered keeper of the vehicle within 14 days of the offence.
Section 1(a) of the same act states:
An NIP required by this section to be served on any person may be served on that person as follows:
1.By delivering it to him
2.By addressing it to him and leaving it at his last known address or
3.By sending it by registered post,recorded delivery service or first class post addressed to him at his last known address.
An NIP shall be deemed for the purposes of section 3 above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address,notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him.
The service of the NIP shall in every case deemed to have been complied with unless and until the contrary is proved.
Serving the NIP in person on the Spouse or Partner is enough(Hosier v Goodall) (1962).
Section 1(1) (c) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 states that before certain offences can be prosecuted:
A notice setting out the possibility of a prosecution must have been sent to the driver or registered keeper of the vehicle within 14 days of the offence.
Section 1(a) of the same act states:
An NIP required by this section to be served on any person may be served on that person as follows:
1.By delivering it to him
2.By addressing it to him and leaving it at his last known address or
3.By sending it by registered post,recorded delivery service or first class post addressed to him at his last known address.
An NIP shall be deemed for the purposes of section 3 above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address,notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him.
The service of the NIP shall in every case deemed to have been complied with unless and until the contrary is proved.
Serving the NIP in person on the Spouse or Partner is enough(Hosier v Goodall) (1962).
26 February 2003, 09:55 PM
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Quoting from the act itself which can be found at HMSO.gov.uk
"1.—(1) Subject to section 2 of this Act, where a person is prosecuted for an offence to which this section applies, he is not to be convicted unless—
(a) he was warned at the time the offence was committed that the question of prosecuting him for some one or other of the offences to which this section applies would be taken into consideration, or
(b) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a summons (or, in Scotland, a complaint) for the offence was served on him, or
(c) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—
(i) in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the [1988 c. 52.] Road Traffic Act 1988 (cycling offences), served on him,
(ii) in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.
(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)(c) above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him.
(3) The requirement of subsection (1) above shall in every case be deemed to have been complied with unless and until the contrary is proved.
(4) Schedule 1 to this Act shows the offences to which this section applies."
so has to be served in 14 days
"1.—(1) Subject to section 2 of this Act, where a person is prosecuted for an offence to which this section applies, he is not to be convicted unless—
(a) he was warned at the time the offence was committed that the question of prosecuting him for some one or other of the offences to which this section applies would be taken into consideration, or
(b) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a summons (or, in Scotland, a complaint) for the offence was served on him, or
(c) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—
(i) in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the [1988 c. 52.] Road Traffic Act 1988 (cycling offences), served on him,
(ii) in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.
(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)(c) above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him.
(3) The requirement of subsection (1) above shall in every case be deemed to have been complied with unless and until the contrary is proved.
(4) Schedule 1 to this Act shows the offences to which this section applies."
so has to be served in 14 days
LOL
26 February 2003, 10:32 PM
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I agree the law states it must be served within 14 days, but the definition of "served" says, "A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)(c) above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery..."
As far as I see it, that means if they send it by registered post or recorded delivery within 14 days, it's been served. It doesn't say it has to be delivered within 14 days, only that it must be sent within 14 days.
[Edited by TurboKitty - 2/26/2003 10:33:43 PM]
As far as I see it, that means if they send it by registered post or recorded delivery within 14 days, it's been served. It doesn't say it has to be delivered within 14 days, only that it must be sent within 14 days.
[Edited by TurboKitty - 2/26/2003 10:33:43 PM]
26 February 2003, 10:37 PM
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I've just had to go through this. The NIP must be proven to have been SENT within the 14 days, not received. This is to cover if you've moved or it's got lost in the post or whatever. Neither of these are allowed as excuses.
So yes, to say again, under Section 1 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, the NIP must be SENT within 14 days.
Do feel free to go over to 5ive-o for police advice which will say the same thing.
So yes, to say again, under Section 1 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, the NIP must be SENT within 14 days.
Do feel free to go over to 5ive-o for police advice which will say the same thing.
26 February 2003, 11:34 PM
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The act quite clearly states that the Notice has to be served within 14 days. It uses the word served, not the word sent. That means it has to notionally be received with 14 days. It is also law in this country that any Notice sent by 1st class mail is to be assummed as having been served the next day, whether it arrived or not.
Therefore to be valid a NIP has to be sent, if going by first class post, on or before the 13th day following the offense. It is them deemed to arrive on the 14th.
The legislation also states "(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)(c) above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him."
which makes me wonder if one could argue it wasn't received if it didn't come by registered post, or recorded delivery. However as I have said 1st class post is normally considered adequate for service of Notices.
Therefore to be valid a NIP has to be sent, if going by first class post, on or before the 13th day following the offense. It is them deemed to arrive on the 14th.
The legislation also states "(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)(c) above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him."
which makes me wonder if one could argue it wasn't received if it didn't come by registered post, or recorded delivery. However as I have said 1st class post is normally considered adequate for service of Notices.
26 February 2003, 11:41 PM
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Incidentially for further information on speeding see http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_...ge/The_Law.htm (hope its clicky!) where you will find the following quote
"Service of summons or notice of intended prosecution
In circumstances in which an oral notice is not given at the time, then either a summons or a written notice of intended prosecution must be served within 14 days. In reckoning a period of 14 days, the day on which the offence was committed is ignored. A notice sent by post must be despatched so that in the normal time of postal delivery it will arrive within 14 days. If it is so posted but is held up in the post and is delivered outside the 14 day period, it will be deemed to have been served in the 14 day period; consequently the driver can still be convicted."
"
"Service of summons or notice of intended prosecution
In circumstances in which an oral notice is not given at the time, then either a summons or a written notice of intended prosecution must be served within 14 days. In reckoning a period of 14 days, the day on which the offence was committed is ignored. A notice sent by post must be despatched so that in the normal time of postal delivery it will arrive within 14 days. If it is so posted but is held up in the post and is delivered outside the 14 day period, it will be deemed to have been served in the 14 day period; consequently the driver can still be convicted."
"
27 February 2003, 12:59 AM
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when you get the fine, if you do get it ask for a copy of the photo a friend of mine was sent a speeding ticket for doing 75 in a 50 zone when the photo came through it clearly said 65 on it i think he is going to get away with speeding because of the **** up by the police.
27 February 2003, 07:10 AM
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The reference to sent is just to confirm that the NIP can be sent to the last known address of the Registered Keeper and saying you didn't get it is not an a defence.
However that doesn't stop one arguing that it was sent too late,and therefore not served on time. I would assume that usually though the NIP is sent in plenty of time.
However that doesn't stop one arguing that it was sent too late,and therefore not served on time. I would assume that usually though the NIP is sent in plenty of time.
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