scoobyangel

once the contract is signed (but not exchanged) can either party still pull out?

prodriva

Yes, but once youve exchanged contracts no-one can pull out. They still can afterwards but would have to pay all costs involved as compensation to you. It is usually set out in the contract.

Its a nightmare isnt it. Just gone through the minefield of buying a house myself. I dont want to have to go through it again for a very long time.

[Edited by prodriva - 2/17/2003 2:46:57 PM]

chiark

Ask your solicitor, but if exchange has not occurred then my best guess would be that you're not bound. You need to stop your solicitor from exchanging though, and I'm unsure as to whether solicitors would advocate doing that.

scoobyangel

its my solicitors that have caused all the hassle and i have just about had enough after 14 weeks and am close to telling them that if the keys are not in my hands by noon tomorrow then they can shove it up their **** and we will pull out completely and look for somewhere else

mattstant

in the last 20 years of house selling the staggering level of incompetency of solicitors no longer amazes me .
its the first thing i tell any buyer that they must keep a constant check on their solicitor as the most frequent cause of last minute hitches and chains collapsing is solicitors.

scoobyangel

we are on the phone to them every day.... already have had costs reduced by 50% but this does not help.... they have so far promised us that we would be in by xmas... didnt happen... by the time our baby was born (jan 24th)... didnt happen...... last wednesday... again, didnt happen..... last friday... guess what??? yup.. didnt happen.... latest was monday, maybe tuesday... phoned them this morning... guess what... they are now saying friday [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

we are living in one room with a tiny baby and getting thoughrally pee'd off with it...

considering the property we are buying is empty we thought it would all be so easy [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

davyboy

I am sorry to hear your news, it can be terribly frustating!

However, my solicitor is fine, its the plank buying my house that's getting on my ****!

He put the offer in for my house on 7th December and still has not got his mortgage. How long does this take? (I know the answer to that, don't feel the need to reply)

I have warned the estate agents I will be pulling out of buying and selling on Friday if I have had no positive news by then.

[Edited by davyboy - 2/17/2003 3:08:17 PM]

prodriva

I know exactly how you feel. I had to keep chasing my solicitors constantly throughout the whole process and it would appear that its the only way your going to get anywere aswell. If the house your buying is exactly what you want then stick with it if its not then keep looking as the right house for you is out there. Happy Days!!!

chiark

Solicitors, in my experience and given what my brother-in-law is going through with a simple chain (him buying empty house, he's sold to first time buyers too) aren't the fastest things known to man and appear to my eyes to have no sense of urgency. Whether they have a sense of due diligence is another question entirely, but it nags at me occasionally.

Phone the estate agent, and get them moving. When we moved, it was the estate agent and not the solicitors that got things moving. My solicitor actually told me that they'd not phoned the other solicitor for a while "because I don't like speaking to them".

We ended up exchanging and completing on the same day. Giving an ultimatum of a date seems to focus their mind (or at least, focus someone's mind into giving the solicitors the appropriate kicking to actually do the work).

I appreciate it all takes time for some things, but other things merely rely on two solicitors communicating, which they don't appear to like doing.

Also, bear in mind your solicitor gets paid whether you exchange and complete or not. This may go some way to explaining the relative urgency in their mind.

Spleen vented. Phone your estate agent.

Nick.

chris singleton

Have they told you what the problem or reason for the delay is?

The only problems I usually encounter with other firms is that they are simply too busy. A bad firm will undercharge to get the work, but will need more work to make a profit and as a result don't offer a very good service as you can never get hold of them.

As with anything the less you pay the poorer the quality of service you will receive, IMHO.

With reference to earlier comments, Its not normally the solicitors who are to blame for chains collapsing, normally agents who fill the buyer/seller's head with nonsense and dates that are simply not feasible.

If you want to let me know a few specifics I might be able to point you in the right direction.

If you haven't even exchanged contracts yet, you will probably need a minimum of 5 working days between exchange and completion (if you a buying with a mortgage) to request the mortgage advance.

Cheers

Chris

Tiggs

solicitors are fine and most are good, the problem is that when it goes wrong ppl get very vocal and upset and it seems like everyone is useless!

in short, get a good one and you're fine...it amazes me the amount of ppl that obtain their legal advice without some sort of referal or recomendation from someone thats used them before.

T

Chrisgr31

Personally if I thought I was getting shabby advice or work from a solicitor I'd give The Law Society a call. Whilst I have my doubts that lodging a formal complaint would be successful an informat chat with The Law Society might mean a slow solicitor getting a kick up the backside.

As has been said even if you pull out you'll still have to pay the solicitor which is annoying if they caused the problem in the first place!

Chris

scoobyangel

ok.... have phoned estate agents... waiting for return call now!!!!



excuses so far are....



xmas eve.... solicitors "discover" they are acting for seller to and we have to switch solicitors...( took 8 weeks to discover this)

latest excuses... lost paperwork... sellers havnt removed their furniture ( removing it on last sunday)... mortgage people want to see buildings insurance certificate...( i aint paying for summat i aint got and dont look to be anywhere near getting).....sellers still not removed their crap...(?)... but the best one the solicitors have used so far,....... "not our fault" [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]



anyone work for countrywide here?? (just wondering of course... not remotely saying it is them we have been using ) will edit if i have to i guess!

scoobyangel

also.. we have phoned law society... waste of time... its a recorded message!!!!!

Clarebabes

I used Countrywide mortgage advisors when I bought my house. The woman I was dealing with went off sick for 5 weeks and I never got to speak to the same person twice from then on. Plus, she sold me a mortgage with the Bristol and West which probably wasn't the best idea in the world....... (All IMHO)

mattstant

ERRRRRm nope not where solicitors are concerned.
We recently used the services of a very reputable and expensive local firm as our previous one is retiring.
suffice it to say we are on the point of suing them over three separate cases of down right incompetency

scoobyangel

i hardley think £1000 is "cheap" especially for this level of incompitance!

3times

Unfortunatley in your case there are better conveyancers than Countrywide (did you buy through Bairstows?). I have found that there fees are high and service, at best, poor. They are a large company that will use administrators to do most of the work, the actual conveyancer will only get the case once all the donkey work has been done.

I deal with solicitors/conveyancers on a regular basis and find that the best are the ones that come recommended. My company has a tie up with a large national company but I do not recommend them to my own clients as I feel that their service is not as good as could be.

On the point of buildings insurance, you have to have this in place on exchange of contracts as you are legally responsible at this point. Best thing is to take out a policy with a monthly premium so you can cancel if need be. You can apply for buildings insurance prior to exchange so the policy is in place and have the policy put on risk on the day of exchange. A solicitor should accept a faxed copy of this to proceed.

Another point to note is that you should complete no longer than 28 days after exchange of contracts.

Most of this is probably no help to you now but hopefully you can get this sorted asap.

Law Society will always back a solicitor. Bit like the medical profession, they all stick together.


Best of Luck

Tony

chris singleton

Tony, is spot on re. buildings insurance.

Countrywide property lawyers, nuff said

Luke

Threaten to burn their office down. or give them a good slap. They a greedy lazy overpaid monkeys.

Clett

Is there any chance you lot will ever have anything like our (Scottish) system?

Once you've agreed to buy, it's legally binding and there's no backing out on either side! Hey presto, no gazumping, and much less stressfull for both parties. Any signs of a change to the system?

Luke

Clett

Too true. The WHOLE hose buying business in England is a farce. Bring in the Americans

chris singleton

The Scottish system is not without its faults though, IIRC, dont you have to fork out legal costs, survey/mortgage fees, search fees, etc then put in a sealed bid?

If so, you can spend a lot of money each time and be out bidded on several occassions.

I could be totally wrong on the above, someone please correct me if I am.

Chris

ProperCharlie

Scottish system has its down side like chris says. Try buying a flat in an overheated market (Aberdeen in the early 90s) You have to fork out for surveys etc, keep loosing properties as your offer is not high enough above the asking price, eventually have to offer waaay over the asking price to be sure of getting somewhere, cos of all the money you've lost on unsuccessful bids,. 10 years later the place is still only worth what you paid for it. I'll keep the english system, thanks.

Had some dealings with countywide before - found them absolutely ****. This time used a little tin-pot outfit up the road and they were fine. £600 all in for purchase, £400 for the sale. They took a little bit of reminding but at least you could phone up and speak to someone who was actually dealing with your purchase.

The Zohan

In my experience of Solicitors you may be lucky and find a good well motivated one or you may not.

my last house conveyancy was not without its problems mostly caused by mine and the other parties solicitor. I even went down to his office and read him the riot act which did seem to help and made me feel a lot better. Whilst you may employ a solicitor to look after your conveyancing they often have an assistant who does of the real leg work, the solicitor just checks and signs stuff. Solicitors seem to juggle many jobs at the same time and not always get it right.
Ad they say moving house if one of the three most stressful thing you go through, to many a solicitor it is just another job, so what.

Best to get a reccommendation from someone you trust.

BTW - The final insult was when we had exchanged contracts and waiting for the solicitor to move our money from his account to the other parties. I knew he had the money, what did he do, went to lunch for TWO hours before moving the money into the other account, we lost fous hours of moving time becase this **** could not be bothered!

I withheld and 'queried' his invoice/payment for three months and wrote a strong letter to the senior partner, heh made me feel better anyway!

scoobyangel

**update**


excuse for today is..... we are waiting for a copy of the buildings insurance to be faxed to us!!

i see an easy answer to this.. GET ON THE PHONE AND ASK FOR IT!!

after talking to countrywide myself.... to a very stroppy young lady whos name i will not mention.. yet... but she was unbelievably rude to me even though i was very polite to her... she suggest that i go to the insurance companys office to ask them to fax the policy to her.... (the policy is in the sellers name and nothing whatsoever to do with me until i move in)... i think not!!!!!

have now been on phone to the estate agents manager and aired my grievience with them all and the whole situation, and he has been told that if we do not have some sort of progress by the end of today then we will be very seriously considering pulling out of the whole thing.... funny enough he is trying to sort the whole thing out now.,.... we shall but see [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Dave T-S

I've bought and sold eight houses over the last 27 years, and you think you've seen everything, but every time something else comes out of the woodwork!

From experience, if you want it to happen, or at least quickly, you have to take control of the chain yourself.

Your solicitor acts on your instructions and has to do what you say (providing it's at least 99% legal ). Nothing is legally binding until you actually exchange contracts, and if you want to pull out just prior to exchange your solicitor is duty bound to take your instructions.

Again, from experience, if it's going to go t1ts up it's at this point, when people are are about to be committed to buying or selling.

One technical point, it's not strictly true that you are responsible for insuring the house from exchange of contracts. On a secondhand house, yes, but with most new houses the builder/developer is responsible for insuring it to completion - but always check first.

Buying or selling a house is a bit like banging your head on a brick wall - it's nice when its over

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

I'm using the same solictor I used 5 years ago for our current move, they aren't cheap (who is ?) but offer a faultless service, no "I'll find the file" stalling excuses or rustling of papers. They are incredibly aggressive & procative give the impression that yours is the only case they are dealing with.
(Although they can't answer the eternal "When will we exchange ?" question.)

D

chris singleton

Just to clarify a few points, Dave T-S is correct that on most new build properties the developer insures until completion (mainly due to the fact that completion is often on notice and some months after contracts have been exchanged).

On "second hand" properties you don't always have to insure from exchange. Most solicitors adopt the Standard Conditions of Sale (3rd edition) although some use the National Conditions but I wont go into that as this post will drag on long enough

Condition 5.1.1 states However, although the seller retains the risk he is under no obligation to actually insure (Condition 5.1.3).

Now any seller is pretty stupid if he cancels insurance as the buyer may rescind if the property becomes unusable for its purpose after exchange and before completion.

For those of you still awake..........read on.

Most solicitors remove standard Condition 5.1 because it causes problems when there is a chain, for instance, if the house you are selling burns down, the buyer may rescind, but you will still be contractually bound to complete the purchase which most cant do without the equity from the sale.

If you really want the property it is always best to insure from exchange (just to be on the safe side) however it is not essential. If Standard Condition 5.1 has not been removed (check the Special Conditions on the contract) then if you instruct them to exchange they should oblige.

Most mortgagees will insist on seeing a copy of your policy before releasing the loan but you can sort this out as soon as possible after exchange (and it sounds like you've already done that anyway).

Right, even I'm bored now

Chris

scoob_babe

Seems like we're not the only one having fun and games with solicitors and moving house. We thought ours would be relatively simple - we're selling to a first time buyer and there is no chain above us.
First a well known bank loses our buyer's cheque for the survey so all held up for 4 weeks then her solicitor 'a family friend' decides he doesn't want to move quickly - while the people we're buying from is threatening to pull out if we don't exchange by x date. Both sets of estate agents were brilliant at sorting them out (not bad considering we only pay for 1!), we got contracts exchanged and we should be completing on the 26th!
Will be very glad when its all over