Mice_Elf

Wonder if anyone can help... At home I have a corner Jewel tank with 4 coldwater fish in it - 2 goldfish and 2 shubunkins (well, and 2 loaches, but that's not important at the moment! ) and basically they have outgrown the tank. It's not a small tank by any means but the size they are (about 7 - 8") means that with just a couple of flicks of the tail, they are across the other side.

Does anyone have or know where I can get a long aquarium, preferably with a stand. Can't really afford to go out and purchase one, much as I would like to blow £400+ on a decent tank! Am looking at ideally 3 feet+, if possible.

Thanks.

David Lock

Have you thought about putting them outside in small pond if you have appropriate facility (don't say you are in flat 3 floors up!). Both Goldfish and Shubunkins would survive outside I would think although you had probably better wait until warmer weather for the move. We face similar problem and trouble is you soon run out of work surfaces as indoor tanks get larger and larger. But to answer your question there are usually some cheapish tanks going in local papers and free local sales mags. Don't feed 'em so much! David

Mice_Elf

We could indeed build a pond outside, but with 4 cats and a preponderance of herons outside, I don't think they'd last long.. They're only 6 years old as well, so still plenty of time to live.

LOL @ the food comment....they get fed once a day if they're lucky! Love cucumber though...

Devil's Refugee

You'll find mate that in no time the goldfish will outgrow a 3ft tank.
I had a goldfish (converted to tropical because it was hard as nails!), pleco (huge ******), gourami, 2 aquatic frogs, black widow (not the spider!) and a silver shark in a 3ft tank. Plenty of room most of the time, but like you said, not enough to keep them occupied.
See what you can find 2nd hand from the local rags, new they can be expensive.
Have you enquired at the local aquarium whether they can make a tank up for you also ?

Mice_Elf

Not yet inquired, no... I have removed most of the objects in the tank, apart from the plants, to give them some more space but I think that I will have to look at getting a huge tank...hmmm...

Need to view the local papers, I think.

EvilBevel

Start digging, you know it makes sense

Cats are usually not a problem BTW, herons certainly are. But there are ways to minimize the risks (like not building plant shelves, some invisible tripping wire etc)

super_si

There a pond near me, its at least 30ft across and 10ft deep.

To the water level alone theres a 4ft drop.

its huge!!!

SI

muppet paster

A fake heron on a stick is alledged to stop herons, but having never kept a pond, i couldn't really say if they work proper.


Please Note:

A live heron on a stick would probably not last long, die, decompose and start to smell in not much time at all really. So a fake one would be the way forward!

HTH

Mice_Elf

But I'm a soft sap and don't want my fishes outside. I like to look at them, not stare into the murky depths of a pond to see a flash of colour!

Mice_Elf

Evil Bevel....if I had time to sit, it would be a first... Besides, I'm so fair skinned that I *can't* sit outside for long...

Even if I did, I'd be sitting chatting to whomever, not face down over the pond.

EvilBevel

OK, OK, I'm a sad person

Still, can't call this merky can you ?

Mice_Elf

Ahhh...I see you keep swimming pigs! Looks good and no, it's not murky.

Bottom line, though - no pond!

Mungo

Without a vast pond, the goldfish will pretty much grow to fit the size of any tank you put them in. People with big tanks generally make their own - I'll find out if it's special glass.

Mice_Elf

Cheers Mungo!

Toerag

How about putting extra powerheads in the tanks to create a current for the fish to swim against? I've got a 96 litre juwel normal shape jobby with tropical marines in it, and they just love swimming into the current waiting for tasty morsels to float downtide to them.
PS. Have you ever tried moving your tank? Bloody difficult it is, even if you take all the water out to gravel level!

EvilBevel

On a more serious note... make sure the glass you use is thick enough, it's amazing how much pressure there can be in a large volume of water. Last thing you want is a crack & a flooded living room

Also, filtration becomes more & more important as they grow bigger. Check ammonia levels regularly (cheap kits @ pets store). The wool thing won't work as it will clogg up, you need a decent (volume) filter (but you can hide that under the large tank) with enough "material" for the good bacteria to grow upon (use the dried bacteria bottles for startup). Aeration stones are pretty much a must as well.

Further more, consider regular (2 weekly) water changes of about 20 %, and try to foresee how you will do that.

Last note before coat: when you finally have the larger tank, and you are anything like me you will want to put in more fish... make sure you get some that don't grow too big either.

<grabs coat & shoots out the door >

banshi

No need for special glass, thickness and bracing increases depending on size.

Not difficult to construct one once you learn that silicon is to be applied to glass and not fingers

Local merchant will cut to size and away you go

One w/e with:-
Glass and silicon (aquarium not DIY stuff which contains a mould inhibitor that will kill the fish) for tank
Steel and welder, for frame.
Wood saw and plane for cabinet
Wire and screwdriver for lights & installation

One month with :-
fingers and toes crossed to see if it's treat time for kitty when the seam fails


Grab a copy of Loot if you can get the right size and design 2nd hand tanks are cheap. Alternatively try contacting the local aquatic society, members may have kit or trade contacts.

banshi

Theo
Water change ever two weeks, no wonder that ponds like a mountain stream.
Always knew you were a control freak If you visit I'll have to remember to give the tanks a spring clean to avoid another lecture

Seriously, lots of checking/testing is needed when it's first set up. Our kitchen looked like Frankenstines' Lab at one time

But goldfish are pretty hardy once aclimatised. So unless your close to maximum stocking - surface area/size x no fish - I think only perfectionists would be undertaking water changes so frequently

Good idea on fltration though. I had a bloody great external unit in the cabinet with five layers of foam, wool, lava rock and other media in it. Then when I aquired those additional fishes I was "never going to buy" there were no problems.

Gordo

I'd echo the look in Loot idea. Last time I looked there were 4' tanks and cabinets for <£100 in there.

We're busy setting up another tank (it's addictive) at home - other half was very pleased (!) when I had a 450 litre one delivered last week (4'x2'x2' basically). £275 including a nice hand made beech (veneer) cabinet. We already have two 3' tanks and an 18" 'hospital' (i.e. where we have to put fish that are busy being slaughtered/ battered from the other tanks).

The problem is that you can spend a fortune on all the extras (air pumps, heaters, external filters, plants, lighting) etc. For your situation I'd recommend getting a cheap 4' tank with stand (and preferably hood/light) from Loot. You won't need to heat it in the house and as long as you don't add more fish (tricky not to!) you won't need air pumps. Goldfish are filthy fish, however, and very greedy (easy to over feed) - filtering is therefore key. I'd use a Fluval 404 (circa £80 at http://www.aquatics-warehouse.co.uk/) with regular carbon changes. Don't worry too much about water changes, I don't (too lazy) and we've got some allegedly very difficult to keep fish (cichlids etc) which are fine - overfiltering and plenty of airstones is key for them.

Good luck!
Gordo

muppet paster

Mice - I'll have to check, but i think there's a 48" x 15" x 15" and a 36" x 15" x 12" doing nowt, i'll phone me dad and check. I'm decorating the house at the mo, one will go into me lounge, you're welcome to the other if it has survived <counts on fingers how long it's been since moving out of my old mans> erm, <promtly runs out of fingers!> the last few years in me old mans shed!

muppet paster

Despite the temtation, i shalln't edit the above post...

EvilBevel

But I'm the control freak ?

Seems like Gordo is one as well !

No really, filtration & aeration are really key.

My pond is now about 40.000 litres, so I don't do water changes anymore, as there is enough water/space to act as a "buffer".

My filter is about 1.500 litres mind, with 6 compartments, air stones to feed the nitrifying bactaria.... Pump is about 20.000 litres/hour/ The other filter is smaller.

No water changes anymore, but a constant drip of tap water into the filter on an air stone to dissipate the chlorine. In a tank, water changes are a very good idea, not for the clear water ("gin clear" in aquatic terms is equivalent to "twisties" for Scoobs ) but for the sediments/chlorine etc...

Mice, don't let that Banshi dude fool you... I always disagree with him anyway

I am not a control freak. In fact, when I started out with the pond (but tanks are just the same, only even more critical) I just dug a hole & thought "all that filter nonsense, nature will sort itself out". Just marketing bull**** and what have you...

Only, nature doesn't usually sustain small ponds with overstocked fish. They die. That's nature.

First time you see them gasping for air, you rush out and buy airstones. First time you notice the pond looks like 30 people poo'd in it, you start thinking about filters.

The lab comment... I remember that so well LOL. But it's a good thing to do when you build a new tank/pond, it really is. After a while, you start to look more at the fish behaviour.

I haven't tested my water for 3 years now, I just watch the pigs... erm fish, and see if they are happy. They are a living lab test.

Goldfish are strong critters, live up to 25 years etc... but no fish can deal with high ammonia levels. So filter, and aerate, they will thank you for it by growing very old

muppet paster

Okay, 20% every 2 weeks is too much IMHO. 20-25% every 4-6 weeks sounds more like it to me(with freshwater fish). Use a gravel cleaner to syphon it off, and disturb no more than 50% of the gravels surface. Can't think of a reason to do it fortnightly unless you're over-feeding or overstocking the tank.

I used to run a fishroom in a shop, and the only reason most of the tanks got a weekly waterchange was due to overstocking, or diease breakouts.

EvilBevel

Agreed, I was being a bit over-zealous there.

banshi

But why change the habit of a lifetime

- Down at the dealership last weekend and the screensaver showed a wr blue scoob with what appeared to be Evil Bevil across the rear bumper what have you been up to ??

BOT
Thought you wer considring something larger, but if MP doesn't deliver and you're stuck I've a 3' tank in the loft.

Mice_Elf

LOL...uhm...thanks for the "looking after fish" advice, but I have been looking after the coldwater fish for 6 years now!

Basically if I get a larger tank I'll get an external filtration system but no more fish. I just want somewhere they can swim about rather than the getting-too-small tank they have at present.

Jase - very kind of you - I'll gladly take one off your hands!

Dougster.

Fishy stuff

Some good stuff here.

Toerag

Have you tried an undergravel filter? That's what I have in mine covered by an inch and a bit of crushed seashells, then a layer of mesh to foil the burroing creatures, then another inch or so of coral sand. This allows me to 'gravel clean' all the coral sand without knocking back the nitrifying bacteria. Coral sand is quite light though, and burrowers will take great delight in stirring it up. Also, as there's a powerhead sucking water down through it the water will get crystal clear within 30 minutes of a major stir up (like moving the tank).

muppet paster

I can safely say MP won't be delivering a 3ft aquarium on the back of the bike!


I'll phone the old chap tonight Mice and see if his still got my 3' there. If so, i'll try and talk him into dropping it at mine and let you know!

Mice_Elf

Ahhh...and there's me thinking it would be such fun seeing you arrive with a 3' tank on the back of the bike...

OK - let me know what he decides. Cheers.