The Concorde Solution Cover Up
02 January 2001, 03:26 PM
#2
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Malcolm,
After reading your article and your suggestions for voting, your claims remain unsubstantiated.
You clearly state that during combat, it was common practice to line the fuel tanks of military aircraft with rubber to prevent fuel loss after penetration, then go on to say that BA have obviously stolen your idea!
Is it not inconceivable that BA/BAe have ex-military staff who were also privvy to this information?
You also state that this theft of your "idea" is well known to even the highest levels within BA. How on earth do you expect to prove this, even if it were true?
Your website shows that you are a specialist in video editing and encoding for the internet, yet you claim that a company thats sole business is aeronautics, who have probably been designing aircraft since you were a twinkle in your fathers eye, have stolen your idea which you admit is common knowlegde amongst the flying world anyway?
Hmm.
Geezer
After reading your article and your suggestions for voting, your claims remain unsubstantiated.
You clearly state that during combat, it was common practice to line the fuel tanks of military aircraft with rubber to prevent fuel loss after penetration, then go on to say that BA have obviously stolen your idea!
Is it not inconceivable that BA/BAe have ex-military staff who were also privvy to this information?
You also state that this theft of your "idea" is well known to even the highest levels within BA. How on earth do you expect to prove this, even if it were true?
Your website shows that you are a specialist in video editing and encoding for the internet, yet you claim that a company thats sole business is aeronautics, who have probably been designing aircraft since you were a twinkle in your fathers eye, have stolen your idea which you admit is common knowlegde amongst the flying world anyway?
Hmm.
Geezer
02 January 2001, 03:31 PM
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Hang on a second, lining a fuel tank with rubber isn't rocket science and isn't your patent.
Surely someone at BA may have been thinking along these lines. They may know something to be able to run Concorde, which is still rather a nifty piece of kit despite its age.
Can you prove that they visited your web page? Did you alert them to its presence?
How can you be sure that they didn't independently come to the same conclusion?
You should be congratulated for your idea, but I think you could be attacking the wrong people here and those people could be innocent of any wrong-doing or moralistic debt to you. Look what Branson went through...
Surely someone at BA may have been thinking along these lines. They may know something to be able to run Concorde, which is still rather a nifty piece of kit despite its age.
Can you prove that they visited your web page? Did you alert them to its presence?
How can you be sure that they didn't independently come to the same conclusion?
You should be congratulated for your idea, but I think you could be attacking the wrong people here and those people could be innocent of any wrong-doing or moralistic debt to you. Look what Branson went through...
02 January 2001, 04:04 PM
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[anorak mode]
The alterations which have been made to the inner surfaces of the fuel tanks on Concorde are similar to those used on the fuel tanks of Formula 1 cars. However, the substance being used is Kevlar (the stuff they make bulletproof vests out of). The self-sealing rubber will be placed on top of the new Kevlar surface. How can you say that a technology that has existed in Formula 1 for several years and in aircraft for longer is your idea??
The wiring alterations you have mentioned were made because the French AAI's suspect the spark which caused the kerosene to ignite was caused by dubious wiring in the undercarriage bay which was live as the aircraft had passed V1 and was raising its gear.
No alterations have been made to the tyres - for GoodYear to change the slightest thing on the specification of the tyres would require the entire fleet to be grounded and result in many, many hours of exhaustive testing being carried out to ensure the tyres met the CAA regulations. The proving flights for the tyres were one of the biggest delays to the original project.
[/anorak mode]
Why haven't you put up a website accusing the Forumla 1 teams of stealing your idea? Some proof is needed - not just accusations!
(Shame my muppetiser button doesn't work in here!!)
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 02 January 2001).]
The alterations which have been made to the inner surfaces of the fuel tanks on Concorde are similar to those used on the fuel tanks of Formula 1 cars. However, the substance being used is Kevlar (the stuff they make bulletproof vests out of). The self-sealing rubber will be placed on top of the new Kevlar surface. How can you say that a technology that has existed in Formula 1 for several years and in aircraft for longer is your idea??
The wiring alterations you have mentioned were made because the French AAI's suspect the spark which caused the kerosene to ignite was caused by dubious wiring in the undercarriage bay which was live as the aircraft had passed V1 and was raising its gear.
No alterations have been made to the tyres - for GoodYear to change the slightest thing on the specification of the tyres would require the entire fleet to be grounded and result in many, many hours of exhaustive testing being carried out to ensure the tyres met the CAA regulations. The proving flights for the tyres were one of the biggest delays to the original project.
[/anorak mode]
Why haven't you put up a website accusing the Forumla 1 teams of stealing your idea? Some proof is needed - not just accusations!
(Shame my muppetiser button doesn't work in here!!)
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 02 January 2001).]
02 January 2001, 04:20 PM
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Shortly you will be able to visit my web-site which will describe my invention for an electrical device in which you can place sliced bread. The bread is then exposed to a heating element to make toast. Its my idea and those, so called, boffins at Tefal can jolly well pay up.
For my next venture I will sue the relations anf family of Charles Babbage for blatantly stealing my idea for the computer. And that Bill Gates can look out too.
In short sir, I am not sure I agree with you..........so there
For my next venture I will sue the relations anf family of Charles Babbage for blatantly stealing my idea for the computer. And that Bill Gates can look out too.
In short sir, I am not sure I agree with you..........so there
02 January 2001, 05:05 PM
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I accept that it is not a new idea, all I did
was point out a possible option for them at a time when all they had come up with was using solid tyres, the web article was easy for all the parties involved to view and it merely helped them to come up with the final solution.
The Concorde page was heavily accessed by the
various aviation bodies in France and also in the UK, there is a tracker on the site
that logs hits.
It would just have been nice if they could have said thank you!
was point out a possible option for them at a time when all they had come up with was using solid tyres, the web article was easy for all the parties involved to view and it merely helped them to come up with the final solution.
The Concorde page was heavily accessed by the
various aviation bodies in France and also in the UK, there is a tracker on the site
that logs hits.
It would just have been nice if they could have said thank you!
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02 January 2001, 05:15 PM
#8
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Malcolm
I agree with you 100%. Let me know when the court case starts so I can come and watch your *** get fried (remember the Hamiltons).
BTW - If you had ever fired a shotgun or knew anything about them you would know that at 3 feet range the shot spread would be about 3" or less - and a solid mass of about 500 pellets not a scatter effect (maybe you are thinking about a blunderbuss??) - hardly representative of what you suggest.
I agree with you 100%. Let me know when the court case starts so I can come and watch your *** get fried (remember the Hamiltons).
BTW - If you had ever fired a shotgun or knew anything about them you would know that at 3 feet range the shot spread would be about 3" or less - and a solid mass of about 500 pellets not a scatter effect (maybe you are thinking about a blunderbuss??) - hardly representative of what you suggest.
02 January 2001, 05:16 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ChrisB:
<B>I'll vote for the legal option if we split the £20m payout 60/40 in my favour....[/quote]
ROTF!
<B>I'll vote for the legal option if we split the £20m payout 60/40 in my favour....[/quote]
ROTF!
02 January 2001, 05:23 PM
#10
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Golden rule #1 of suing someone - make sure they haven't got more money/resources than you before you start.
George Carman has retired. Should he come out of retirement for this case, whose side is he going to work for??
Solid tyres LOL - I had them on my pram in 1955!!!!
George Carman has retired. Should he come out of retirement for this case, whose side is he going to work for??
Solid tyres LOL
- I had them on my pram in 1955!!!!
02 January 2001, 05:41 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dave T-S:
George Carman has retired. Should he come out of retirement for this case, whose side is he going to work for??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dave, he's retired
George Carman has retired. Should he come out of retirement for this case, whose side is he going to work for??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dave, he's retired
02 January 2001, 06:19 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Malcolm RC:
<B>......it merely helped them to come up with the final solution.[/quote]
So where is the proof of this??
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 02 January 2001).]
<B>......it merely helped them to come up with the final solution.[/quote]
So where is the proof of this??
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 02 January 2001).]
02 January 2001, 07:39 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Malcolm RC:
<B>...there is no such thing as truth only circumstance and opinion ....[/quote]
Thank Christ you're not a magistrate!!!
MT - Strange it was working earlier on.......just as the lawyers were rubbing their hands together!!
<B>...there is no such thing as truth only circumstance and opinion ....[/quote]
Thank Christ you're not a magistrate!!!
MT - Strange it was working earlier on.......just as the lawyers were rubbing their hands together!!
02 January 2001, 08:51 PM
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Stuart says: No alterations have been made to the tyres - for GoodYear to change the slightest thing on the specification of the tyres would require the entire fleet to be grounded and result in many, many hours of exhaustive testing being carried out to ensure the tyres met the CAA regulations. The proving flights for the tyres were one of the biggest delays to the original project.
Malcolm says:
Stuart, in case you hadn't noticed the entire fleet is grounded at the moment!
As I understand it they are modifying the tyres so that in the event of a blow-out the tyres break into small bits. In the case of the tragic accident last Summer, Air France
were using remoulds!! and a large chunk of tyre penetrated the wing and fuel tank.
Stuart also says: The wiring alterations you have mentioned were made because the French AAI's suspect the spark which caused the kerosene to ignite was caused by dubious wiring in the undercarriage bay which was live as the aircraft had passed V1 and was raising its gear.
Malcolm: The fire had started before the aircraft left the runway! I know when I am flying my Yak52 I don't tend to raise the undercarriage until the aircraft has left the ground, but I must remember next time I fly to follow your advice and raise the undercarriage while I am still halfway down the runway!!
Malcolm says:
Stuart, in case you hadn't noticed the entire fleet is grounded at the moment!
As I understand it they are modifying the tyres so that in the event of a blow-out the tyres break into small bits. In the case of the tragic accident last Summer, Air France
were using remoulds!! and a large chunk of tyre penetrated the wing and fuel tank.
Stuart also says: The wiring alterations you have mentioned were made because the French AAI's suspect the spark which caused the kerosene to ignite was caused by dubious wiring in the undercarriage bay which was live as the aircraft had passed V1 and was raising its gear.
Malcolm: The fire had started before the aircraft left the runway! I know when I am flying my Yak52 I don't tend to raise the undercarriage until the aircraft has left the ground, but I must remember next time I fly to follow your advice and raise the undercarriage while I am still halfway down the runway!!
02 January 2001, 09:14 PM
#19
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ChrisB
George Carman - OOPS, so busy looking at Scoobynet I hadn't seen the news - not the best piece of timing eh??
Stuart
Do you think this bloke Malcolm owns a motorised frame tent??.....MP5 at the ready M8!!
George Carman - OOPS, so busy looking at Scoobynet I hadn't seen the news - not the best piece of timing eh??
Stuart
Do you think this bloke Malcolm owns a motorised frame tent??.....MP5 at the ready M8!!
02 January 2001, 09:28 PM
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Malcolm,
I have attempted to have a reasoned discussion regarding this with you as have some of the other members of ScoobyNet. I am not a pilot, I do not have a pilots licence, therefore my knowledge of aircraft and their various functions comes from my own quest for knowledge (alright, I'm an anorak!! ) The information I have used in my argument has been sourced from (IMHO) reliable sources.
I have asked you to clarify <I>why</I> you think that you are solely responsible for suggesting lining the tanks of Concorde with this kevlar/rubber lining? So far you have not done this. Unless you can prove that you were <B>solely</B> responsible for the use this technology on Concorde I fear you will not find anyone on here (or anywhere else for that matter) who will take your claims seriously.
DTS - ROTFL
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 02 January 2001).]
I have attempted to have a reasoned discussion regarding this with you as have some of the other members of ScoobyNet. I am not a pilot, I do not have a pilots licence, therefore my knowledge of aircraft and their various functions comes from my own quest for knowledge (alright, I'm an anorak!!
) The information I have used in my argument has been sourced from (IMHO) reliable sources.I have asked you to clarify <I>why</I> you think that you are solely responsible for suggesting lining the tanks of Concorde with this kevlar/rubber lining? So far you have not done this. Unless you can prove that you were <B>solely</B> responsible for the use this technology on Concorde I fear you will not find anyone on here (or anywhere else for that matter) who will take your claims seriously.
DTS - ROTFL
[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 02 January 2001).]
02 January 2001, 09:50 PM
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Stuart: It is common knowledge in the aviation industry where the suggestion came from to use a self sealing rubber lining, but at the end of the day all I can do is present the facts and you have to draw your own conclusions.
If you go to
If you go to
02 January 2001, 11:36 PM
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Boomer, I was a bit cheesed off that BA and
BAe Systems were not going to give me a credit, but then I only suggested the self sealing rubber lining bit, not the Kevlar so it was only part of the puzzle (although quite an important part).
It is obvious they (BA, Air France and BAe Systems) are never going to give me an official credit, and to be quite honest with the new year arriving I feel I need to get on with running my business.
The
BAe Systems were not going to give me a credit, but then I only suggested the self sealing rubber lining bit, not the Kevlar so it was only part of the puzzle (although quite an important part).
It is obvious they (BA, Air France and BAe Systems) are never going to give me an official credit, and to be quite honest with the new year arriving I feel I need to get on with running my business.
The
03 January 2001, 08:53 AM
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Malcolm,
Firstly let me apologise for what were flippant comments on what was your first post. I have seen from subsequent posts that you have a reasoned argument whether I agree with it or not.
The one thing that I would do if I were you would be to drop any thoughts of action against BA. If you are truly concerned about your business ventures I would back down before they take you to the proverbial cleaners, in a similar way to Freddie Laker and Richard Branson. You cannot hope to beat these people.
PS - I still invented the Toaster though!!!!
Firstly let me apologise for what were flippant comments on what was your first post. I have seen from subsequent posts that you have a reasoned argument whether I agree with it or not.
The one thing that I would do if I were you would be to drop any thoughts of action against BA. If you are truly concerned about your business ventures I would back down before they take you to the proverbial cleaners, in a similar way to Freddie Laker and Richard Branson. You cannot hope to beat these people.
PS - I still invented the Toaster though!!!!
03 January 2001, 09:10 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Malcolm RC:
<B>Did you know that BA have 7 Concordes, whereas Air France used to have 7 but actually broke one up a few years ago!!! so now obviously they
only have 5 left.[/quote]
7 - 1 = 5 ?
<B>Did you know that BA have 7 Concordes, whereas Air France used to have 7 but actually broke one up a few years ago!!! so now obviously they
only have 5 left.[/quote]
7 - 1 = 5 ?
03 January 2001, 01:05 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malcolm RC:
In the case of the tragic accident last Summer, Air France were using remoulds!!
Malcolm, don't sound so suprised - most of the world's airline fleets use retreads (not remoulds) and have done so for years. This is no big deal - especially in the aviation world, where there are no major lateral forces on the tyre, only vertical impact and acceleration issues.
In the case of the tragic accident last Summer, Air France were using remoulds!!
Malcolm, don't sound so suprised - most of the world's airline fleets use retreads (not remoulds) and have done so for years. This is no big deal - especially in the aviation world, where there are no major lateral forces on the tyre, only vertical impact and acceleration issues.
03 January 2001, 03:36 PM
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I had the pleasure in my mis spent youth of driving an old E type Jag, which was when I purchased it equipped with re-treads. Always
remember the Motor Mechanic who did the Mot check saying: 'You do realise your Driving
a death trap' sold it shortly after that...
(after spending a fortune on new tyres!)
remember the Motor Mechanic who did the Mot check saying: 'You do realise your Driving
a death trap' sold it shortly after that...
(after spending a fortune on new tyres!)