TV, surround set up etc.
04 January 2003, 11:48 PM
#1
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You could indeed buy an AV amp and use it to decode the digital multi-channel audio stream from a DVD player. Then get it to amplify for output to a surround pair, a front centre and maybe even a rear centre. Then because the amp has decoded the digital signal, use the front pair pre-outs to feed your 'proper' amp to supply the signal to be amplified for your front 'proper' speakers.
There are of course a multitude of combinations of the above all depending on whether you have a DVD player with a built in decoder or not etc.
Of course, keeping the levels matched using two amps can be fun
In all, if you are not really interested in movies (and going for a 4:3 aspect TV, you really are not bothered), then using a quality TV with its internal speakers is good enough IMHO.
Cheers
Ian
There are of course a multitude of combinations of the above all depending on whether you have a DVD player with a built in decoder or not etc.
Of course, keeping the levels matched using two amps can be fun
In all, if you are not really interested in movies (and going for a 4:3 aspect TV, you really are not bothered), then using a quality TV with its internal speakers is good enough IMHO.
Cheers
Ian
05 January 2003, 08:36 AM
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Having just brought a home cinema system, I can appreciate the problems you`ve got choosing the way to go.
When choosing your TV either widescreen or 4:3 just pick the one that you like the picture on. As you are going to have to look at it all the time.
If you are more interested in the music than films etc, why not put most of your money into a HiFi system instead, most decent systems have Dolby decoders within them now, so Tv will have some sort of Surround Sound when plugged into it. Your current TV maybe all you need if its just a picture your after.
Another option for you maybe to go for a complete audio/visual package from one of the cataloque type shops. widescreen TV 28-32in - Dolby Pro-Logic midi system - VCR - DVD £600 - £1000.
We looked into Sony and they offered us a 600watt 5.1 system with built in DVD for around £600-£800 depending on speakers. If you were to spend out on this type of system you maybe able to get an ex-rental 4:3 tv cheap.
Its hard to suggest actual systems for people as everyones tastes are different, take a day out in the scoob and look in every shop that sells audio/visual equipment and have fun seeing just how loud they go.
good luck.....
When choosing your TV either widescreen or 4:3 just pick the one that you like the picture on. As you are going to have to look at it all the time.
If you are more interested in the music than films etc, why not put most of your money into a HiFi system instead, most decent systems have Dolby decoders within them now, so Tv will have some sort of Surround Sound when plugged into it. Your current TV maybe all you need if its just a picture your after.
Another option for you maybe to go for a complete audio/visual package from one of the cataloque type shops. widescreen TV 28-32in - Dolby Pro-Logic midi system - VCR - DVD £600 - £1000.
We looked into Sony and they offered us a 600watt 5.1 system with built in DVD for around £600-£800 depending on speakers. If you were to spend out on this type of system you maybe able to get an ex-rental 4:3 tv cheap.
Its hard to suggest actual systems for people as everyones tastes are different, take a day out in the scoob and look in every shop that sells audio/visual equipment and have fun seeing just how loud they go.
good luck.....
05 January 2003, 03:19 PM
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You are prolly better getting something like the Denon DVD/Multi channel amp combo,for about £700 i think,and then getting the centre and rear speakers to add to the system.I tried like hell to get a decent 2 channel sound from a multi channel system and i failed.So i kept my separates for Hifi and pissed the wife off with having 7 seven speakers in the room.
05 January 2003, 04:02 PM
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Can i ask why you only want a 4:3 aspect tv??
Consider....Most films are wdescreen, most TV is 4:3 (there is some tv that is w/s, but it will take many many years until everything is w/s). Most stuff I watch is TV so a 4:3 is the best way to go.
It'll be a bigger screen so even with letterbox style for movies, I'll still get almost the same viewing area as a 28inch w/s. With a 28' w/s normal tv is more like having a 26 inch tv so I'm loosing viewing area by having w/s which ever way round I go!
This is unless I can find a good value 32inch w/s so I can have best of both worlds as I don't believe you can get bigger than 29inch 4:3 aspect TVs.
28 w/s is too small, 32 w/s is good size but too much ££ (unless someone can recommend a good 32 w/s??) and 29inch kinda is the best cost option.
Denon DVD/Multi channel amp combo,for about £700
[Edited by Dracoro - 1/5/2003 4:04:12 PM]
05 January 2003, 04:45 PM
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By a "DVD with built in decoder" I mean the following.
Many DVD players have the video output (as you would expect) and then maybe a couple of digital audio outputs, usually a digital coax (looks like an RCA) and/or and optical output. These outputs are used to stream the audio stream (undecoded) to an AV amplifier. The AV amplifier the decodes the stream into say Dolby Digital 5.1 and then distribultes the discrete signals to the internal power amplifiers that then pass via speaker cable to your various speakers.
On the other hand, there are DVD players with a built in Dolby Digital 5.1 (some also have DTS) decoders. These DVD players have the usual outputs but also have a stack of pre-outs (RCAs) for the discrete signals that have already been decoded. You just pass these signals direct to a standard power amplifier and then on to the speakers. I.e. you can do without a dedicated AV amplifier.
To answer some other questions:
AV Amplifier = Multi-channel amplifier with decoding circuits for Dolby Digital, DTS etc. Also usually has some video switching functionallity.
AV Receiver = As above but with built in radio tuner.
AV Processor = Decoder for Dolby Digital, DTS etc. but with no amplification. You could then use what ever quality amplifiers you have.
Cheers
Ian
Many DVD players have the video output (as you would expect) and then maybe a couple of digital audio outputs, usually a digital coax (looks like an RCA) and/or and optical output. These outputs are used to stream the audio stream (undecoded) to an AV amplifier. The AV amplifier the decodes the stream into say Dolby Digital 5.1 and then distribultes the discrete signals to the internal power amplifiers that then pass via speaker cable to your various speakers.
On the other hand, there are DVD players with a built in Dolby Digital 5.1 (some also have DTS) decoders. These DVD players have the usual outputs but also have a stack of pre-outs (RCAs) for the discrete signals that have already been decoded. You just pass these signals direct to a standard power amplifier and then on to the speakers. I.e. you can do without a dedicated AV amplifier.
To answer some other questions:
AV Amplifier = Multi-channel amplifier with decoding circuits for Dolby Digital, DTS etc. Also usually has some video switching functionallity.
AV Receiver = As above but with built in radio tuner.
AV Processor = Decoder for Dolby Digital, DTS etc. but with no amplification. You could then use what ever quality amplifiers you have.
Cheers
Ian
05 January 2003, 04:46 PM
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sorry mate,din't realise it was including TV.
I don't really kinow what you mean by wanting toi stick with 4:3 though.The widescreen teles have anamorphic abilities and afaik many progs are broadcast in widescreen and most movies certainly are.Won't you regret not getting a cheap 28" w/s from somewhere like Empire?
look,http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...DE=PAN-TX28DK1
a TV for around £300,28" w/s and then the rest on a decoder and speakers.I also have the Quad 11ls so i was particulalry fussy with the 5 surround speakers,but i didnt have worried,for watching films every one i tested sounded a damn site better than the crappy noise than comes from the TV itself.I ended up with the Mission NXT FSAV
they do one even cheaper http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...=DAE-DWX28W5GB
In fact,Ive just checked Ebay,and somone is trying to sell a set of Mission NXT Avs for £300!! They are quite simply superb! (I paid £600!!).
So a Tele for £350,the Missions for £300 and you then have £350 left for a decoder/DVD player combo.Sony do some corkers.I went with Teac,but tbh,on your budget Ebay makes a lot of sense.
I don't really kinow what you mean by wanting toi stick with 4:3 though.The widescreen teles have anamorphic abilities and afaik many progs are broadcast in widescreen and most movies certainly are.Won't you regret not getting a cheap 28" w/s from somewhere like Empire?
look,http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...DE=PAN-TX28DK1
a TV for around £300,28" w/s and then the rest on a decoder and speakers.I also have the Quad 11ls so i was particulalry fussy with the 5 surround speakers,but i didnt have worried,for watching films every one i tested sounded a damn site better than the crappy noise than comes from the TV itself.I ended up with the Mission NXT FSAV
they do one even cheaper http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...=DAE-DWX28W5GB
In fact,Ive just checked Ebay,and somone is trying to sell a set of Mission NXT Avs for £300!! They are quite simply superb! (I paid £600!!).
So a Tele for £350,the Missions for £300 and you then have £350 left for a decoder/DVD player combo.Sony do some corkers.I went with Teac,but tbh,on your budget Ebay makes a lot of sense.
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05 January 2003, 04:50 PM
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And to add to what ian has just said,if you go for the DVD/decoder route and use your hifi amp,make sure you get RGB scart compatibility AND a digital connection for connecting to Sky,as some films are now broadcast in both w/s and DD (another reason to get a w/s tele).
TBH i thonk all decent tvs have rgb and most DVDs are RGB,but on your budget its possible they wont.
TBH i thonk all decent tvs have rgb and most DVDs are RGB,but on your budget its possible they wont.
05 January 2003, 05:05 PM
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I think my 1st stage is to get the TV (dvd & speaker setup to come later), test the speakers with their auxillary ones or through my amp in the standards way to see how it all sounds (gotta buy the TV regardless so no extra cost to me).
anamorphic abilities - isn't this the thing that stretches the screen and makes everyone look fat? this is one of the things I disklike about w/s. Surely a good 4:3 can do the same thing (but the other way round of course!) Or is it something else?
Regardless, I think 28" is too small given that most my viewing will be on 4:3 broadcasts (i.e. TV progs). as in normal mode it'll be like having a 26" or 28" but with stretched/fat people. I can live with the letterbox for movies that the 29" 4:3 would give me. As I said before, I'd rather a 32" w/s but they seem costly. Can I get a decent one for, say £5/600?
DVD's with decoders - still not sure about this. does this mean I still need a separate amp as my amp will only have 2/4 normal speakers with 2 channels. 2nd amp for the other 2 channels etc.? Or do the rear/centre/mid speakers wire straight into the dvd with the fronts being amplified by the amp/speakers?
Many thanks for the reply though chaps! most useful
anamorphic abilities - isn't this the thing that stretches the screen and makes everyone look fat? this is one of the things I disklike about w/s. Surely a good 4:3 can do the same thing (but the other way round of course!) Or is it something else?
Regardless, I think 28" is too small given that most my viewing will be on 4:3 broadcasts (i.e. TV progs). as in normal mode it'll be like having a 26" or 28" but with stretched/fat people. I can live with the letterbox for movies that the 29" 4:3 would give me. As I said before, I'd rather a 32" w/s but they seem costly. Can I get a decent one for, say £5/600?
DVD's with decoders - still not sure about this. does this mean I still need a separate amp as my amp will only have 2/4 normal speakers with 2 channels. 2nd amp for the other 2 channels etc.? Or do the rear/centre/mid speakers wire straight into the dvd with the fronts being amplified by the amp/speakers?
Many thanks for the reply though chaps! most useful
05 January 2003, 06:07 PM
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hmmmmm,right I'm no expert,but i will start again!
Its all about compromises.
Like me,you want decent stereo sound,so you want to keep your separates.But there are questions to be asked first.
can you arrange your lounge properly? ie can you get your hifi cabinet near to the tele,without wires all ove the place? etc etc.
If you can then thats fine,and you are obviously keen to use the Quads and your Arcam to drive the sound.So you need a dvd with an in built 5.1 channel decoder to go via your amp and then to the speakers.
So the following has to be given consideration.I thought the Denon ws still £700!! but nope,Empire are doing it for £400!!
http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...ode=DEN-ADV700
I have auditioned that product and it is fantastic at that price,dare i say even unbeatable.
Also,that leaves £600 for a TV,and you can get a 32" for just that!
http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...e=JVC-AV32T25S
Just over a grand,and you still haven't got the centre and rear speakers yet,but i reckon with your taste in stereo quality anything less than this will disappoint you. (save up for the rest)
6 months ago a 32" JVC tv and that Denon would have been £1700!
that has to be a stunning buy at that price,and you are still utilising the Arcam and the Quads,so no need for another amp and more front speakers.
As for anamorphic,yep,it makes the 4:3 pic bigger,but NOT fatter.The whole point is keeping the aspect correct.
I seriously think you will be hacked off you did not get a 32" w/s,if you like DVDs that is!
happy hunting,and you are one lucky sod if you can arrange your lounge around the gear,the missus gave me many compromises,so i had to go for small nxt surround speakers and the hi-fi at the other end of the lounge.
Seriously though,I'm gutted about that Denon being that price,i nearly bought it for almost double that.Its a fantsatic deal.
all the best with whatever you go for
ps that Denon is very slim.You could put it on top of a Sky reciever and a VCR on the other shelf,job done!
[Edited by dba - 1/5/2003 6:13:22 PM]
Its all about compromises.
Like me,you want decent stereo sound,so you want to keep your separates.But there are questions to be asked first.
can you arrange your lounge properly? ie can you get your hifi cabinet near to the tele,without wires all ove the place? etc etc.
If you can then thats fine,and you are obviously keen to use the Quads and your Arcam to drive the sound.So you need a dvd with an in built 5.1 channel decoder to go via your amp and then to the speakers.
So the following has to be given consideration.I thought the Denon ws still £700!! but nope,Empire are doing it for £400!!
http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...ode=DEN-ADV700
I have auditioned that product and it is fantastic at that price,dare i say even unbeatable.
Also,that leaves £600 for a TV,and you can get a 32" for just that!
http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/produc...e=JVC-AV32T25S
Just over a grand,and you still haven't got the centre and rear speakers yet,but i reckon with your taste in stereo quality anything less than this will disappoint you. (save up for the rest)
6 months ago a 32" JVC tv and that Denon would have been £1700!
that has to be a stunning buy at that price,and you are still utilising the Arcam and the Quads,so no need for another amp and more front speakers.
As for anamorphic,yep,it makes the 4:3 pic bigger,but NOT fatter.The whole point is keeping the aspect correct.
I seriously think you will be hacked off you did not get a 32" w/s,if you like DVDs that is!
happy hunting,and you are one lucky sod if you can arrange your lounge around the gear,the missus gave me many compromises,so i had to go for small nxt surround speakers and the hi-fi at the other end of the lounge.
Seriously though,I'm gutted about that Denon being that price,i nearly bought it for almost double that.Its a fantsatic deal.
all the best with whatever you go for
ps that Denon is very slim.You could put it on top of a Sky reciever and a VCR on the other shelf,job done!
[Edited by dba - 1/5/2003 6:13:22 PM]
05 January 2003, 06:26 PM
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Hmm the Denon is a DVD, amp/reciever all in one? Am I correct? This sounds good. I could, theoretically plug a full set of SS speakers into this unit? My arcams/quads don't HAVE to be used for TV I suppose.
I like the sound of this idea. I've also seen 32" Panasonic for a good price too so further TV investigation required. I feel a search or another thread coming on. As i said 32" W/S or 29" 4:3 but not 28".
Does the keeping the same aspect mean that parts of the picture are lost off the screen?? My parents have a 28" w/s sony & it has 'modes'. Wide (for w/s progs), Smart (doesn't seem very clever to me but streched pics nonetheless), 4:3 aspect (too small picture area) and another mode (has bits lost off the screen which is crap). I can live with 4:3 on a 32" w/s as the pic is still big enough as the screen is larger in the 1st place.
Once again, many thanks for the advice. I'm much more 'clued' up on this now!.
I like the sound of this idea. I've also seen 32" Panasonic for a good price too so further TV investigation required. I feel a search or another thread coming on. As i said 32" W/S or 29" 4:3 but not 28".
Does the keeping the same aspect mean that parts of the picture are lost off the screen?? My parents have a 28" w/s sony & it has 'modes'. Wide (for w/s progs), Smart (doesn't seem very clever to me but streched pics nonetheless), 4:3 aspect (too small picture area) and another mode (has bits lost off the screen which is crap). I can live with 4:3 on a 32" w/s as the pic is still big enough as the screen is larger in the 1st place.
Once again, many thanks for the advice. I'm much more 'clued' up on this now!.
05 January 2003, 07:39 PM
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right,so you like the look of the Denon.Yep,it is a decoder DVd player all in one but from the p[roduct description it is n't an amp,you would still nee to feed the thing into your amp.If you want an all in one that includes amplification,then the Sony range is excellent,some for as little as £400 and they get great reviews.
But if you stick with the Denon,and try and get the Mission FS avs from Ebay,you still have £300 left.Imo it would be a great system if you got the £650 JVC from Empire.Ok so its £1350 plus cable and interconnects,so its way above at £1500,but its worth it imo.
On my tele,i just leave it on auto.The TV will select the most appropiate aspect depending on what is broadcast,and it usually selects full as many tv progs are now broadcast in w/s.
go on,you KNOW you wanna
But if you stick with the Denon,and try and get the Mission FS avs from Ebay,you still have £300 left.Imo it would be a great system if you got the £650 JVC from Empire.Ok so its £1350 plus cable and interconnects,so its way above at £1500,but its worth it imo.
On my tele,i just leave it on auto.The TV will select the most appropiate aspect depending on what is broadcast,and it usually selects full as many tv progs are now broadcast in w/s.
go on,you KNOW you wanna
05 January 2003, 07:49 PM
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I thought reciever meant amp and tuner else it'd be a dvd/decoder/tuner combo or a dvd/tuner combo etc.
Anyway part of the spec is '- 35 watts into 6 ohms ' which indicates that it is.
I shall investigate further.
Anyway part of the spec is '- 35 watts into 6 ohms ' which indicates that it is.
I shall investigate further.
05 January 2003, 08:02 PM
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oops,just checked the back of What HiFi and the Denon is a tuner,amp,decoder and DVd player all in one.And Empire are also selling the Mission FS2 av 5 speaker+sub set up for £360!! (I paid £600!!)
Seriously,the JVC 32",Denon and Mission for £1400 is a quality set up.Its £2300 worth of kit at 12 month old prices.Serious gear! And you would be getting all the gear new from empire,and i can vouch for them,cus i bought a vcr from 'em.
I can vouch for the Missions,cus i have them (look at What Hifis gold star review).
Seriously,the JVC 32",Denon and Mission for £1400 is a quality set up.Its £2300 worth of kit at 12 month old prices.Serious gear! And you would be getting all the gear new from empire,and i can vouch for them,cus i bought a vcr from 'em.
I can vouch for the Missions,cus i have them (look at What Hifis gold star review).
05 January 2003, 08:56 PM
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sorry forgot the Ebay link
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...4085&category=
at £250 they are a steal,as is the Denon.I make that £1300 for the JVC and Denon from Empire and the Missions from Ebay.A steal!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...4085&category=
at £250 they are a steal,as is the Denon.I make that £1300 for the JVC and Denon from Empire and the Missions from Ebay.A steal!!
07 January 2003, 04:58 PM
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Dracoro - get the Yamaha DSP-E800 processor to add to your existing hifi. It's the only affordable add-on processor I know of.
Should be about £250ish
It does the centre and rears and piggy-backs your stereo amp for the fronts.
Problem solved.
Should be about £250ish
It does the centre and rears and piggy-backs your stereo amp for the fronts.
Problem solved.
01 April 2003, 09:50 PM
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Spoke to a sony guy earlier, have pretty much decided on a 29 inch normal aspect TV.
Now the audio. I have Arcam amp, Quad 11L speakers which is fantastic for music.
Sooo, Should I A) buy a processor to feed the mid/rear sections (do these devices do everything? any limitations etc.?) thus using the good speakers coupled with some adequate speakers for the mid/rear as these are less important. OR B) buy a separate reciever/amp and full set of speakers (or output front channels to arcam/quads). Not sure what the price difference is but I thing A) may be cheaper.
OR will C) TV speakers + 2 auxilliary speakers that come with it do the job?
Budget £700-£1000 - to include the TV!! 29 inch.
I'm not after amazing quality as I'm not that into movies but would just like to enhance the experience a bit. Music is my thing & I'll spend serious money on that but not TV etc..
Many thanks in advance.
[Edited by Dracoro - 1/4/2003 11:19:39 PM]
Now the audio. I have Arcam amp, Quad 11L speakers which is fantastic for music.
Sooo, Should I A) buy a processor to feed the mid/rear sections (do these devices do everything? any limitations etc.?) thus using the good speakers coupled with some adequate speakers for the mid/rear as these are less important. OR B) buy a separate reciever/amp and full set of speakers (or output front channels to arcam/quads). Not sure what the price difference is but I thing A) may be cheaper.
OR will C) TV speakers + 2 auxilliary speakers that come with it do the job?
Budget £700-£1000 - to include the TV!! 29 inch.
I'm not after amazing quality as I'm not that into movies but would just like to enhance the experience a bit. Music is my thing & I'll spend serious money on that but not TV etc..
Many thanks in advance.
[Edited by Dracoro - 1/4/2003 11:19:39 PM]
01 May 2003, 12:36 AM
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Thanks Ian
DVD with built in decoder? tell me more. how do the speakers then get wired?
parents have a wide sony and has 2 auxillary speakers (dunno what they do exactly - guess they've got them in the wrong place as I just turn them off most the time)
I am happy to have a standard AV amp & full set of small speakers and not use my current amp but don't want to clog up the room with speakers. Also given that I've got top speakers anyway, would it be wise to take advantage of them?
Also everyone, what's the difference between a 'processor' and an standard AV amp?
[Edited by Dracoro - 1/5/2003 12:39:14 AM]
DVD with built in decoder? tell me more. how do the speakers then get wired?
parents have a wide sony and has 2 auxillary speakers (dunno what they do exactly - guess they've got them in the wrong place as I just turn them off most the time)
I am happy to have a standard AV amp & full set of small speakers and not use my current amp but don't want to clog up the room with speakers. Also given that I've got top speakers anyway, would it be wise to take advantage of them?
Also everyone, what's the difference between a 'processor' and an standard AV amp?
[Edited by Dracoro - 1/5/2003 12:39:14 AM]
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