pslewis

My feelings on this are well known - BUT, putting my opinions aside, HOW THE HELL can they turn down 16%!!???

The unions say they will accept 16% IF ITS NOT TIED to modernisation!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

As far as I am concerned They can all go shove their greedy heads right up their 4rses! I hope the government NOW say - 4% is IT, NO MORE AT ALL, EVER - and stay out until you want to come back. No 8 day here, 2 days there, we will ruin your Xmas you *****!!

God am I mad?!

Pete

Oh, yes, and I will go in and drive out the Engines - just give me the authority and I'll deliver one nice Red Fire Engine!!

[Edited by pslewis - 11/21/2002 11:16:29 PM]

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Hey, now compare the firemens pay to that of the soldiers that have taken over..... its considerably less for the soldiers than for the firemen (about 1/3 less if not more).

Tony

fatherpierre

It's only less for the lowest ranks that have been in the Army/Navy/Airforce for a short period of time.

Each Green Goddess has a Sgt or equiv in charge, earning £27k-£30k p.a.

turboteeth10

apparently not...

pslewis

We cannot get enough decent Soldiers - so their pay is too low

Firemen applicants are 40 a penny - so their pay is too high

Simple supply and demand logic .... end of story, £21k is TOO much!!

Pete

dicky ticker

bloody terrorists!!!!

we have to fight yearly campaign's to keep our pay in line with inflation. a few years ago we asked for a 10% pay riseto get us "back on track" with the price of living. i think we got 3.2%. did we strike? no we just shaved off our beards and carried on as normal.

bloody terrorists!!!!

rallycol

iTrader: (4)

Nice wind up Mr Lewis but this is serious

cryptwalk

I did some work at a firefighters house today. He said that they havent offerd 16%. He said alot of it's paper talk.

the_outsider

The only guaranteed amount offered to the fire-fighters by the local authority employers was 4% as of the newsnight programme
with the MP's awarding themselves a 40% increase last year they even have the cheek to say that any government in the world would not award that amount to public sector workers!
what are MP's then? Apart from hypocrites and leeches who happen to work considerably less than our so called "lazy firemen"
a 40% rise when you are on £18K pa is a drop in the ocean when compared to the trough that the MPs have their snouts firmly stuck in!
at least the fire-fighters are earning their pay and not just sitting on some committee or going on some fact finding mission in some far flung paradise

when people say that they want firemen to work more hours! do they really want a knackered fire fighting team turning up to rescue them after doing overtime with no days off in three weeks?

AnDy_PaNdY

The strike will ultimately fail, firefighters will look like a bunch of money grabbing whingers with the blood of innocent people on their hands.
They should return to work now and be grateful they beat at least 40 people for the job they are in, with good wages and conditions.


SACK THE STRIKERS.

pslewis

Firemen EARN their money?? Do me a bl00dy favour!! working 5% of their time WORKING??

Pete

chiark

Fireman in Paris and Marseille are actually members of the armed forces themselves...

...so are forbidden from strike action

Interesting idea. Would get my vote right now.

Nick.

Jon1T

Sack all the striking firefighters......? Nice one. And repalce them with what? Oh, some of those 40 other people who apply for every place. Ok....so we have a completely inexperienced UK firefighting force for a few years - and the undermanned armed forces (who are supposed to be defending these isles/kicking Iraqi ***) carry on fighting fires ineffectuially while the newbies are trained up for 6 months or whatever.

And who deals with RTAs, chemical/oil fires, terrorist chem/bio threats, fire assesment, fire saftey certification, inter-service major incident planning etc etc. Oh that's right no-one -cos you've sacked em all.

Nice one.

Dream Weaver

Better than having no firemen at all, or striking ones.

Sorry, but I agree with pete - they should stop whinging and get back to work. They get paid enough, and the ones I know have far more money than I do. And I work hard in my job.

fast bloke

Count me in for the engine grab. Anyone else?

Scooby Snax

Count me in!

pslewis

What would they do if the public went and got the engines out to save their families?? They would then KNOW that we hated them!! and maybe they would start talking sense!!??

Pete

Jon1T

Right, so you grab the engines and assuming the firefighters let you, and the Police haven't arrested you, you travel to the fire/RTA.......and now what. Cos let's face it, you haven't got a clue what to do.

...and if someone dies from your negligence, you'll have your *** sued off.

Doh!

Daz34

Firefighters HAVE NOT turned down 16%. In fact the deal has been agreed with the employers but it requires the Govt to provide some cash in the short term to fund it. The firefighters & employers have compromised so why won't this Govt?

Regarding the proposed fire engine grab: Firefighters are still manning the majority of frontline appiances for fires & rta's that are persons reported & major emergencies.

andrew6321

my, there are lots of very brave people on this board. Grabbing the fire engines, gallantly rushing off to save lives that are being ignored by the 'evil' firefighters....

I wonder - have any of you 'real men' yet had the bottle to make your views clear to a group of striking firefighters? Face to face?

No, I thought not.....'armchair Hitlers'

[Edited by andrew6321 - 11/22/2002 12:45:56 PM]

Dave P

The government have said that any increases have to come from local government funds.

This country is currently in a precarious state. Do these people not understand this. It's all well and good taking a pop at the rich banker or director who takes his £200,000 bonus, but they forget this same rich banker pays £80,000 in tax on his bonus alone. Ok so that's enough to pay for 4 fireman.

The problem is the rich banker isn't going to get sweet f.a. this year so he isn't going to pay the tax. In fact he'll be lucky to have a job as he doesn't have a job for life!

So now he's not going to treat his wife (sorry no intention of being sexist) to the mini cooper as aren't a lot of other bankers, so BMW lay off some of their workers in the UK who now don't pay any tax so there's a further burden on the state.

Ultimately in the economic cycle this is simply the most ridiculous time to put in such a huge pay claim... and to be honest if I was a fireman I'd want Gilchrist sacked from his £42,000 a year job (oh I bet he still get's paid when the rest of the fireman are on strike and not earning!!) for letting my pay get so far behind in the first place.

Put new contracts in front of them all with the revised working practices and a 4% pay rise and say sign them or we let you go! It's happened to me on once or twice and when actually faced with the very real prospect of the dole queue it always seems a good idea to sign.

Dave

merkin

Actually Andrew, I have, I told the firefighters striking outside Shaftsbury Avenue fire station what I thought of their strike, and while I agreed a reasonable pay increase was deserved (i.e. around 10%) 40% was a complete joke, and also told them striking was a ridiculous thing for them to do.


I will admit this was after about 5 pints and a few vodkas at 11pm, so i don't suppose i was the only one

andrew6321

Merkin...

Good for you mate (genuinely). I'm all for intelligent debate. However, my comments were probably not aimed at you....

40% was indeed crazy. But I'd like to see them get the 16% they were originally offered by the employers in the summer, before the government stepped in.

banshi

Not quite correct the FBU agreed not to strike. The issue of modernisation was still to be resolved.
"We are very concerned about the loss of firefighters jobs and proposed reductions in nightime cover" union rep speaking on local news.

So why were their cars parked in front of the station doors last week and why was a driver trapped in his car for 55mins before the brigade arrived.

Scooby Snacks

I've just been approached by a fireman in Woking, asking me for my support - I said "the public's had enough mate, get back to work" and the abuse I got back was unmentionable!! I must admit, I wanted to smack him one, but I'm not that kind of person.

I've refrained from making any comments on scoobynet about the strikes, but I've been interested in the comments you guys/girls have given over the last few weeks and just wanted to have a whinge now!!

How dare they approach me and ask me for my support - working for an IT services company, we are entering our second year of pay freezes, but I guess they haven't thought of that. The vast majority of their salaries are above the average wage, but I guess they haven't thought about that. The vast majority have second job, which will mainly be cash in hand so they are stealing for the Revenue, but I guess they haven't thought about that. At that's without going into the "kidnapping" of fire engines (which are not theirs to own but in my opinion should be given to the army at this time) and the amount of holiday and sick leave they have to take!

They turned down 11%, and now they've turned down 16%.

Come on firemen, stop taking the P I S S.

P.S Anyone interested in setting fire to some firemans houses over the next 8 days??

camk

I'm amazed at how many people believe totally the trash spouted on the news and in the papers. 99% of it is pure drivel, the 11%or12%(depending on which paper) was over 3 years I believe(small print behind the headline). Now if my boss says to me I'll give you an 11% rise , I'm pleased, when he says I'm phasing it in over 3 years, I'm obviously not so pleased....If you're going to get brave and stroppy , please read beyond the headlines and at least make yourself aware of as many of the facts as possible. Unless your a Government stooge, if you are then just carry on as you are.

Regards
Cammy

Taff107

There are some credible points being raised here, however, when it all boils down, the firemen do not deserve the 16% increase for the work they do at the moment. 2 Day shifts followed by 2 night shifts (Which are sleeping duties) and then receiving 4 days off?
I am in the Army and, until recently worked 3 x 8hr training days, 3 x 12hr day shifts followed by 3 x 12hr night shifts and then recived 3 days off (The first of which is sleeping off nights).
True, I do receive more cash than they get however, holding the country to ransom is not the way to go about it. Everybody is aware of the state of the armed forces at the moment, especially with the possibility of a 'new' conflict looming and to employ the squaddies as firemen could do more damage to the country than they
think.
Oh and the " their work is so dangerous" argument does not wash either. As with the Armed Forces, they knew the score when they signed on the line.

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

If you read between the lines it looks like the deal was agreed at about 5.30am between union and local government after all night negotioations, with the strike due to start at 9am. Fatty Two Jags had to OK it all but was too lazy to get up and look at it so sent the message to wait until the morning, by which point the strike had begun. Fat Arsehole [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Grottbags

I wouldn't mind so much about them striking if they were actually stood on the picket line and protesting.

A load of them were just wandering around Norwich city centre this afternoon, drinking coffee, eating, generally having a good time. When I went past the fire station there were a handful of them actually picketing.

What is the point of them being out if they're not stood next to their placards.

Bl**dy holiday makers

ThePoorMansScooby

Trip to the firestation to voice my opinion then foot to the floor.