pslewis

I see that the recomendations are 4% now and 7% next year if they agree to modernisation.

I would have LOVED 4% this year!!! Let alone 7% NEXT!!!

It is true that they only are called to work for 5% of their time

It is true that they have NO recruitment problems

It is true that they need to modernise their working practises - move them out of the comfort zone - and then give them 7%

Seems fair to me? what do you think?

Pete

blair

Seems very fair

If they don't like it then recruit more firemen who do want to do the job, with modern conditions at the rate being offered.

I do have some sympathy for those working in and around London and other property hot spots - but not that much

MattN

I agree, i only got a 2.5% pay rise this year and next year looks to be the same - even talk of cut-backs in staff!!

MooseRacer

I think it is a fair offer. I guess it's the modernisation aspect that the union doesn't like.

Saw a quote from that Red Devil Gilchrist today saying that it looked like an offer from an employer hellbent on confrontation.

Urm, hello, what is demanding 40% then, if not confrontational?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Odds on that they won't go for this. Not when they might have to give up some of the "easier" things about the job.
Note that I am NOT saying it's an easy job, BUT: "no recruitment problems" rather speaks volumes doesn't it?
Sack the lot of 'em if they don't go for it, they'll not be without firemen for long.
Or they could always do what the Tories did to teachers in '88, bring in a law to change their contracts whether they like it or not, remove their negotiating rights,(teachers still don't have any), and impose a pay deal .
Alcazar[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

jasey

Trotty Gilchrist will not go for that - check your batteries in the old smoke detectors everyone

Dracoro

And the quality of education/teaching has probably fallen since then so was this actually a good thing?

AnDy_PaNdY

They should accept the deal and be grateful.
The firefighters have lost my support over this.

Chip

Ive just been offered 1.6% . Would love to work only 5% of the time then retire at 50. 4+7 % next seems a very good deal to me.

Chip.

pslewis

Their BIG mistake was claiming 40%!!!

No-one EVER is going to think that is justified - a job that is paying 40% below what it is worth is a job that is UNFILLED!!

There are NO such recruitment problems!!

I would tell them to strike - NO time limit - just starve them out!!

Pete

uncle buck

Sack the strikers [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] Who needs these thick Militant Trots anyway [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

YOU do, next time your house catches fire. £30k sounds very reasonable to me given the nature of the job - I wouldn't risk my life for that.

Tube drivers on the other hand, now there's an overpaid no-brainer of a job if ever there was one. I think I just worked out where to get the fire fighters their money...

A.

pslewis

I have an idea - lets pay them when we need them??

Call them out - pay them, what? they actually work for 2 hours per shift, 104 hours a year - thats £202/Hour

So, we pay them:-

£15 an hour for getting a cat out a tree

£40 an hour for cutting open a car

£85 an hour for a house fire

and

£150 an hour for an industrial fire (Paid for by insurance)

We will get a Miss Mop in to clean the station and engine brasses

We will employ some apprentice mechanics to keep the engine running

All sorted!!

If anyone dies because FIREMEN are on stike they will be hated

Pete

uncle buck

No I don't, because there are another 40 to take the place of each sacked militant

LeighF

I'd kill for 11%, metphorically speaking your honour, thats about the same as all my rises totalled from 1996, 1.5% last year, probably sod all this year. I consider myself skilled, but 40%, their taking the wee wee. As far as I'm concerned they lost the support of anybody with more than two braincells as soon as they said 40%. As for the danger bit, just like the forces, they are volunteers nobody conscripted them or press ganged them, if they can't handle the heat (sorry couldn't resist it)!!

LeighF

Yes I know I cant spell metaphor-whatchamacallit

Dracoro

The %age rise they want it rather irrelevant, it's all down to economics and what 'we'(govt) can afford to pay them, whether that be £15k, £30k or whatever.

But, life sucks as we all know. I'd be happy to pay them (& docs, nurses, police etc.) £50/£100k per year if we could afford it, but unfortunately we can't. Let the powers that be review the economics & hopefully we can give them what they deserve.

C'mon, lets face it, many of us on here get paid much more than the aformentioned people and we certainly DON'T put our lives on the line for the general public.

Before I get flamed (no pun intended), I don't support striking as lives (theoretically) are put at risk etc. but something ought to be done.

jasey

yes - they should accept 11% offer. Forget wether we can afford it or not - inflation running at approx 1-2%, interest rates the lowest for 40 years - they want 20 times the rate of inflation payrise and wont stop until they

A. Get it
B. Bring down the Government
C. Strike broken by the armed forces getting access to the equipment

Any firefighters out there - public opinion is already turning and once people start to die and Andy Gilchrist comes out saying "Blair only has to give us our 40% and there will be no more tragic deaths" I think you'll find only your families supporting you !

jasey

Just found this;

Based on life assurance company premiums using actual stats for liklihood of injury or death at work

Formula 1 Driver
Bomb Disposal Officer
Test Pilot
SAS Employee
Circus Performer
Film Stuntman
Commercial Driver
Oil Rig Worker
Scaffolder
Fisherman
Miner
Dockworker

So - it looks like we should be paying the firemen less than we pay clowns

Scooby Snax

If they think they are not getting paid enough and dont like it! Get another job. The list of people wanting to get in the fireservice must be endless.

If they strike for 1hour im sure someone will suffer or die!

Ru$$Rip

Just think they can afford even more Gym equipment now - this ontop of the extras for posing for calendars. Its a dangerous job but so is crossing the road. If they strike who will get our cats out of the trees?

Alpine

My problem with this is the 'we put our lives on the line for the public' statement. They make it sound like an everyday occurrence which clearly it isn't.. Why don't we pay them a basic of what they get now plus 5% then give them an extra allowance each time they attend a potentially life threatening incident.

Gordo

cheeky b4st4rds. every half wit in the country with the potential to hold the country to ransom will try it on if they're offered any more (evidence the airport workers, teachers etc etc).

stop the socialist nonsense now and bring back Maggie!!!

G

Luke

Firemen just love their uniforms.......So next time one asks you if you want a go on "His greasy pole" walk away.

Ghost WRX

Here Here to this thread. Good comments all.

One more, we don't have enough Teachers and Nurses in the UK. If we could afford giving them more then let's do it. Teacher/Nurse training courses are always undersubscribed, the professions are not attractive enough. Firefighters vacancies are 40 times oversubscribed. Seems we should be cutting their pay by 40% to give to the teachers/nurses not increasing it by 40%.

Gilchrist is on a miltant mission to further his own extreme left wing agenda. How long will it be before your community fire officer is being barracked in the street by the public who are scared and angry? They now have no choice but to get rid of him if they want to rebuild public trust and respect.

G

pslewis

Well they are going out - just let one of them hold a bucket for money under my nose!!!

Pete

jasey

Just watch the rest of the unions come out as it's no longer safe to work with their comrades being out on strike - WINTER OF DISCONTENT II - Could be a film

MooseRacer

An extract from the BBC website, can't see anything outrageous in it:



Here are the main points of the interim review:


Two stage pay increase totalling 11%.
This would be made up of 4% with effect from November 2002 and 7% by next November - all dependent on accepting the reforms and implementing them swiftly

Introduce flexible and "family friendly" shift patterns alongside the traditional two days on, two nights on, four days off
Abolish "quasi-militaristic" discipline regulations and bring in modern personnel management practices

Allow voluntary pre-arranged overtime

Introduce "specialist" payments to reward scarce skills
Accept the Fire Service's role extends to public safety beyond just putting out fires

Maybe consider changing name from 'The Fire Brigade' to reflect this

Abolish single level entry to encourage graduates or people from other professions to join the service

Reform the pay and promotion structure to allow staff to move "laterally" and achieve pay rises within their grade
Pay retained (part-time) firefighters the same, pro rata, as full time staff

Encourage more women and people from ethnic minorities to join the service

Allow staff to work off front line duties beyond current retirement age if they wish

Allow firefighters to train as paramedics

Absolute Shower

If they strike and someone dies...Bang out of order and they'll loose the support of the whole country! They do the type of job which shouldn't strike anyway.

The pay deal is good I think. Trouble is, cost of living is mad at the moment with house prices sooooo bloody high - you need a 30 - 40% payrise to take a mortgage, or get one of those nightmare 50 year mortgages - what a joke!

pslewis

Is this the start of a strike ridden winter?

I cant see it - but .......................................?

Pete

[Edited by pslewis - 11/13/2002 9:50:41 AM]