Chip

For gods sake we rely on these ppl tp protect us when theres a war.
They tell us they can fire a missile from 1000's of miles away and hit a target 2ft wide.

They can fly multi million pound jets,drive tanks, stay underwater undetected for months, operate spy satellites etc.

But they cant use a bloody hosepipe on a fire engine. Why is this?
To much training they say. I dont think. More like Tony Blair too frightend of going to far and upsetting the unions even more than he has already.

Chip.

RON

I think it comes down to the fact that there's too much equipment that they're not trained to use, for example, the full time firefighters do 4-6 weeks training JUST on BA, that's without the cutting gear etc!!!!!
And also, I think you'll find the engines belong to the seperate brigades, not the councils like they used to.
Ron.

Chip

I use exactly the same BA in my job as a FF. You do not need 4-6 weeks training to use it. I am also certificated to maintain to the BA as well . This was a 2 day course. My refresher this year on the use of BA was a half day. This course was run by the training side of the fire service.

Chip.

jasey

No - I think you'll find they ******* well belong to us - the tax paying public soon to be left to fry

Chip

Doesnt matter who they belong to. The government has known that they would probably go on strike for a long time. Some sort of contingency poan should have been in operation long ago.

Chip

RaZe-=Buzz=-

Hang on Chip - you used the words "government" and "plan" in the same paragraph but missed out the words "tax" and "thieving scum"

Please edit your post to correct your obvious errors

RON

Chip,
I dunno who you work for, buit I was until recently a retained firefighter in Dorset, even as retained i did a 2 week course, the whole timers do a 12 week course, I got it wrong earlier, there is more involved than just putting it on and breathing.
And the engines may not even belong to the brigades, in Dorset some of them are leased to the fire service, so god knows who actually owns them!!!!!!

Chip

Ron,
Yeah but Ive got work to do as well.

12 Weeks. Please explain to me how anyone can justify a 12 week course on BA.Its just not feasible.

Like I said earlier I have done two manufacturers courses on BA (Draeger and Sabre). Both were 2 days.

Chip.

PG

Did a 16 week course 3 of which was BA this includes knowing the set, search procedures(room clearance), flashover / backdraught training, entry control, command and control during BA incidents, real fire training, silo, ship......trust me they can make it last 3 weeks no probs. As for the BAI (instructors) course

SimonH

12 weeks???
It took the RAF less time than that to teach me to fly a Hercules.....
And we learnt about/used BA (Draeger and aircraft specific stuff) during that time too.

Think I'll ask for 40% payrise on Monday. Think I know what the answer'll be though.....

SteveB

iTrader: (1)

Sack the bloddy lot of 'em.

If I did it, that's what would happen to me !

Steve.

PG

boomer

If the Army (Air Force or Navy) are so bloody clever, then how come they are still driving Green Goddesses that can't even break the speed limit on a B-road, and have to be escorted by the Police because they have no radio? Isn't it pathetic that our defence uses vehicles that are over 50 years old . Oh, and rifles that jam unless you clean then every fifteen minutes, and boots that melt in the sand!!

In the meantime, the Fire Brigade have had massive leaps in technology, which takes more skill and thus should be rewarded appropriately.

Also, wasn't it recently reported that due to ambulance shortages, the Fire Brigade were being sent to medical emergencies because they had appropriate training???

You can't compare a squaddie with a Firefighter!!

mb

CRAIGFIN

I'm a Marine Engineer in the Royal Navy and most of the people that I work with have been "stolen" to cover for the fire fighters. What does that mean for me?????? Endless weekends filled with doing their work, thats what!!!!!!!!

P***ed off having worked the last three weekends (that I normally get off, after a full working week also I ad).

Craig.

SimonH

lol lol lol boomer.

Yes, you're right, the army are tooling about in 50 year old Civil Defence Fire Trucks.
Do you know why that is?
It's because they're the Army and not the Fire Brigade.
All the money and training for putting out fires goes to the Fire Service so that they can put out fires and not ponce off on strike at the whim of their socialist union leader [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

And yes, a lot of our kit is sh*t. Do you know why? Because the Govt doesn't give a rats **** and buys most of our kit from cheapo crap companies to save money.
What do we about it? Flag up the problems to those in charge and then get on with the job we joined up and are paid to do, in a professional manner.

What we don't do is hold the country to ransom by threatening to go on strike.

But no, you are right. Your big shiny red truck is better than our crap green truck, so you win that one.
Now let's have a laser guided munitions contest.........

tw@t.

[Edited by SimonH - 10/27/2002 8:54:43 AM]

P1Fanatic

lol SimonH good response. I can just see it now "UK air defense missing as Iraq attacks....RAF on strike". I watch Londons Burning - god damn layabouts just eat all day, use the free gym, play pool or sleep

Simon.

ScoobyWon't

Lets hope you aren't involved in an emergency situation if they do strike.

That's Fire AND RESCUE Service.

Simple solution, give them the pay rise and they won't strike.

40% spread over the tax payers works out at a tiny price. I for one would rather give them if it means I'll be able to rely on a special group of people who are willing to risk their lives in order to save others.

(just to drop down to Simon's level...) No you're right, squaddies are too busy sitting in the barracks w@nking onto biscuits because they are too thick to go out and get what they want. Flame away....

Lets face it - the Fire and Rescue Service is the ONLY effective emergency service left.

pban

Interesting thread.

If I remmber correctly, I spent 1 week training on Ba's during my RAF Fire fighter training. The whole course was just 8 weeks (I think its slightly longer now) we specilised in aircraft fires mainly but BA use is the same.

If I also remember (from the guys I worked with that were old enough)the RAF fire crews provided the BA teams during the last fire strike. The army just man the green trucks

Paul

AllanB

I think if they get a 40% pay rise it will set a president that will lead this country to its own greedy ruin. Times are hard for most people but I don't go on strike because of that. I do think a pay rise may be necessary but a sensible one which 40% is not. Something in line or just over inflation is fair.

I'm sorry but whern you take a job you should know what you expect to earn and live on that and if it doesn't pay enough get a different job. Many people do jobs they don't love just because they pay better.

What with train drivers and firemen getting pay rises it make me wonder what many people in private companies feel like as the market have slowed and pay rises seem to be for the fortunate.


AllanB

pban

Agreed AllanB

And you never hear of fire fighter being made redundent!

SimonH

And therein lies the problem

I'm sorry, but I still can't believe that some people can be so blinkered over this strike.
I do not dispute that the Fireman may be deserving of a pay rise; there's a review in progress - why not let that report come out? Surely then the firemen will have the ammunition then feel they require to press forward with their claim. ?

I've said it on numerous threads before but this is a political strike. Andy Gilchrist is using the strike a political cudgel to beat the Government with, simple as that. The unions are miffed at losing their puppet-string control over the Labour Party and are using the poor bloody Firemen to do their dirty business and embarrass the Govt.
Fortunately for the poor tax paying public, the FBU have spotted that they have very low popular support and have seen sense to delay the forthcoming 48hr strikes and be a bit more grown up and negotiate.

I do not dispute that the fire service could possibly get an increase in pay. I am just in awe of the blinding crassness of those who think that paying 40% to Fire Service will be the end of it. Police, nurses, teachers etc etc etc will all have their unions clamouring for more cash This isn't the 1970s and there has to be some realism to public service pay rises. The fact that a 40% spread over the tax paying populace wouldn't amount to much doesn't cover the 40% pay rise for every other public service or the increased inflation etc that would result.

ScoobyWon't - I fail to see what point you are trying to make with most of your post. The vitriol in my post was directed at "boomer" for his crass outlook on the armed forces, of which I am a member.

To answer some of your “points” though –

Semantics

Hmmm, glad you're not running the country Perhaps if their claim was credible they might receive some support. Just paying them to shut them up is no way to run an economy

Thanks, I will. The reason people like you think that we in the armed forces spend our time kicking our heels about in barracks is because we get on and do our jobs professionally and quietly without whinging and bitching all the time and sulking because we don't get enough money for it.

As for us all being “too thick to go out and get what they want” I would suggest that most people in Armed Forces actually knew what the terms and conditions were when they joined up. Perhaps all the firemen have proven themselves by being thicker by complaining about their pay; did they not read the recruitment brochures before they joined? “Web monkey” eh? Sounds challenging

BTW if you can show me any servicemen who have the time to sit around doing f all I’d be delighted. Most of the guys I know (and me) spend the majority of their time overseas fighting crap little wars or “policing” the various screwed up countries around the world. We are hugely overstretched and underfunded. Our kit is, on the whole, old and decrepit but we have what is known as a “can-do” attitude. We take pride in our work and have the professionalism to get the job done no matter how crap our kit or how little the public back home cares.
No I don’t seek your sympathy or, frankly, your support. We joined the armed forces knowing what the job entailed and what we’d get paid to do it.
I, for one, do my job because I love it. If I went into civil aviation I could increase my salary by 50% pretty much overnight. But then who wants to fly aluminium tubes packed full of lager swilling shell suits to and from Majorka for a living?

Whoops, I’ve gone off on one again

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

SimonH: Hear,hear!
Our forces ARE the best in the world.
NOT because of their kit, munitions, training, etc, but simply because of that "can do" attitude.
I, for one, am proud of them!
Alcazar

MooseRacer

Ditto.

and you have made complete sense with your views on the firemen too.

P1Fanatic

Gotta hand it to SimonH he puts a good argument across. I also have utmost respect for the Forces. My dads a civvy (GCHQ) but works with the forces all the time and is ex-RAF himself. Ive also done a few work placements so I know a bit about what goes on.

Thats not to say I dont respect Fireman. Today I was coming back from lunch and a Firengine blasted down the road whilst my lights were on green - a firefighter in the back gave me a big thumbs up as they screamed past. I think they more than earn their money and deserve a pay rise but 40% is a **** take in anyone other than a politicians/fat cats book.

Simon (not H)

boomer

SimonH,

"ScoobyWon't - I fail to see what point you are trying to make with most of your post. The vitriol in my post was directed at "boomer" for his crass outlook on the armed forces, of which I am a member."

Simon,

sorry if you thought that my reply was "anti-forces" - it wasn't my intention, hence my comments about not having the tools for the job (such as working fire engines, guns and boots).

It is just that you can't expect someone from the forces (at whatever rank or experience) to be able to do the same things that a trained firefighter can do. It is not their fault - especially as they have such pre-historic kit!

Even the fire brigade would do a **** job driving Green Goddesses with a single wooden ladder and hose, and without radios and BAs!!!

Given the choice, i would much rather have you guys firing the laser guided munitions, and the firemen saving the cats in the trees


mb

ChrisB

A damn fine post there SimonH.

Absolutely bang on.

Chrisgr31

Must admit that whilst the fire service may deserve a pay rise the 40% they are seeking is plainly unaffordable. My understandiing is they do 4 shifts a week, 2 day 10 hours each and 2 night 14 hours each. However on the night shift they do get to sleep. Home Office figures state that they are on a shout for 10% of their time.

Their isn't a recruitement problem for firefighters, and they don't leave either. Most public sector employees are under paid, the departments have great recruitmement and retention problems. My guess is that if there was a real problem with pay there would be a recruitment and retention problem.

If there is a pay review body why not wait for its outcome?

beemerboy

Erm?
'scuse me butting in, but do you need 12 weeks training to get a cat down from a tree??

or, kick down a toilet door that some 1yr old has locked, or a whole host of other so-called fire-service related calls???

Oh, i must admit "Skittles" does require some practice though!!

WORKSHY TO55ERS, ALONG WITH UPSTART TEACHERS, The lot of them...


Just my opinion though!!

BB

SimonH

School's kicked out then.

dsmith

Either that or its Happy Hour in the mess