MarkO

Why is it that people don't seem to understand that businesses are for profit, and market forces dictate prices?

There's a rant going on in General at the moment - Ru$$ip seems to think that just 'cos the price of a new WRX dropped by £3k a couple of weeks after he bought his new, he's entitled to some sort of recompense from IM or Subaru UK.

There was also some publicity during this year's Big Brother given to a forum set up for people who believed that Ch4/Endemol were wrong to have the gall to charge for the live streaming of the BB footage.

And of course people are consistently sniping at Microsoft for doing everything it can to maximise profits, despite the fact that it's the competition regulators who've failed in the US, and MS are only doing what is basically part of the US capitalist constitution.

Why can't people understand that the world doesn't owe 'em a living, and that just because the price dropped after they bought XYZ, that doesn't mean they're entitled to a refund!!!?!? [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

NotoriousREV

MarkO, basic rule: people are stupid, selfish and hypocritical.

When they get ripped off they want something done about it, if they're getting away with ripping someone off, it's market forces.

If anyone turns up in this thread and announces that if they owned a car company they would sell their cars at a small profit etc. (or other similar analogy) I'll simply remind them of my basic rule.

TomM

Agree with MarkO - You lost out so swallow it!

Subaru wouldnt be to clever as a business if they did that!, where would they draw the line??

I cant see that hapenning at all. I feel for him as he as lost some money but such is life!

Brendan Hughes

Market forces may also operate the other way. If you show goodwill to your customers, they may come back again. If you **** on them, they may well go elsewhere.

Please note that the value of shares can go down as well as up...

krankyd

>>Agree with MarkO - You lost out so swallow it

This seems to be an attitude that is more apparent in the UK...

Why should I feel that if I have had bad service / a bad deal the solution is just to `shut up and take it`??

This is not the way to go!

I think that if he feels that he is justified, and other people the same, then good luck to him...

TomM

He never had bad service, he never had a bad deal, its just that he bought the car before the 3k offer was made!! - thats why I think he should swallow it!!

Iam all for him trying to get some money back but I dont fancy his chances, and I would full understand Subaru if they told him that its not going to happen.

If I went out and bought a car which soon after was dropped by 3k then I would right a letter yes, but I would also accept that Subaru dont owe me anything, they supplied a product at a price I agreed on - anything they give me would be a bonus but I wouldnt be bothered if they told me to go sing for it.

Thats how I see it, the guy cant expect Subaru to just cough up, they must have known this would happen and imagine the cost of giving every owner 3k back who bought one!! - where do you draw the line??

Tiggs

if it was a bad deal he was dumb to buy it. is my P3 computer a "bad deal" because its now cheaper? is my Big Mac last week a bad deal if McChucks run a 2 for 1 promo?

do these ppl go round town at xmas in the sales, making a note of any purchases they bought during the year that are now "bad deals".

T

TomM

Exactly!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

What about the "If you can buy this product anywhere else cheaper within 14/21/28/42 etc days, we'll refund the difference, and GIVE you 10%/15%/25% of the difference extra for your trouble" deals?
Dealers/IM, are you listening??:
Alcazar:

RaZe-=Buzz=-

well I want some money from Subaru cos the 96 Ive got is only worth probably about 7.5k, through no fault of mine, so I reckon they owe me about 13k

Hand it over IM! Or send me a brand new my03 right now!

[/righteous wrath off]

Ya boo sux for buying a new car. How much did it cost him to turn the key for the first time and make it "second hand"?
Two grand or so?

melpaul2002

What about X-Box they just about did the right thing and kept customer loyality.

MarkO

LOL. 'Did the right thing'. MS knocked a hundred quid off the price of the X-Box, and 'compensated' existing full-price owners by giving them a few games 'to the value of the price drop'. Except that MS probably actually pay £2-3 for each game - the markup before they get to the shops is HUGE.

Dave P

MarkO, agree entirely. If you receive bad service complain away, as a nation we don't do it enough so we get bad service.

But what has happened is no different to buying a designer top and seeing it three weeks later in the sales. Discounts were floating about anyway, I got a couple of grand off mine coz I found it cheaper else where and my dealer matched them.

It's just bad timing. Personally I leased mine on a two year lease hedging my bets against a new model, looks like a good move now.

Dave

Ru$$Rip

Marko you are making this very personal. You really dont know anything about me other than that I dont like to walk into a reputable main dealer drop my trousers and bend over. I suggest that you email me off-line if you would like to discuss this further.

Ru$$Rip

MarkO

Ru$$, I'm not making it personal, you're taking it personally. Just because I don't agree with your POV, doesn't mean you should take it as a personal attack.

Your 'plight' provoked a thought which reminded me of other similar scenarios where customers have questioned companies' behaviour and attempted to change it, despite the fact that the companies in question have simply been working as a profit-making organisation (i.e., a business) in a capitalist market. In my opinion, that is their right (and their raison d'etre).

So I thought I'd engage in a discussion about it, away from the General forum. If you take that as a personal attack, then I suggest you shouldn't be participating in a discussion forum (which is, after all, what a BBS is).

And as for emailing you privately, I've nothing to say to you, so what would be the point? I've made my opinions perfectly clear on the subject, without insulting, belittling, or attacking you personally. If you have an opposing view and care to debate it, I'm prepared to join in. If you're just going to take an opposing view as a personal insult, then I'm afraid I'm not interested.

Edited to say, Ru$$, that you should never attempt to ridicule somebody by linking to an image on a site which they own.


[Edited by MarkO - 10/17/2002 1:53:33 PM]

ChrisB

Caveat Emptor

hail-hail

A quick question to everyone:

Say you buy a car for £20K, then 3 weeks later the price goes up to £22K.

How many people call into the dealer with an extra £2K saying, "have this, I didn't realise you were going to raise the price".

I know I would


edited for tooreble speeling

[Edited by hail-hail - 10/17/2002 1:51:47 PM]

chiark

First off, all is my opinion

Market forces are at work, very true. But, if IM are so proud of their loyal Subaru enthusiasts, as they admit they are in their press release, why do they ask the very same enthusiasts to grab their ankles and bite hard on something?

P1 limited to 500, then 800, then 1000...
UK300 price vs STI VII...
MY02 price drop...

For years, IM has been suffering from the EU trade laws limiting the amount of cars that they were allowed to import. This allowed them to set premium pricing as the brand became popular as supply was inherantly limited. This expired in 2000 (I believe) and the limits are off.

Couple this with examples of people (like me) importing the very same car from holland and saving 7 grand.

With the limits removed, the market is flooded.

In my opinion, I believe IM have in some ways been victims of their own success. They realise that they cannot premium price what is actually a mass-marketed car.

So the price needs to come down

However, it was known that bugeye was not "greatly received" by the community in general, and also it was one of the industry's worst kept secrets that there was a major restyle, so I guess there was fair warning. Though nothing official...

To do this without any apparent thought of their "loyal enthusiasts" is, IMHO, strange.

Mark: I disagree that you're not making this personal - you single out Russ by name. The next post reads "people are selfish, stupid and hypocritical". Now, if I was Russ, I'd take that as someone saying that straight to my face.

There was a point to this, but once again I've forgotten it.

MarkO

Erm, and who wrote the next post? Not me. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

And for somebody to accuse me of making a personal attack, and then to post a completely unrelated picture of me (taken during a charity event, I might add) in order to attempt to ridicule me, smacks of massive hypocrisy, IMO.

[Edited by MarkO - 10/17/2002 1:57:26 PM]

chiark

Yes, I know you didn't write the next post. But it still reads quite badly, especially as you single out Russ by name. That's probably the point I was trying to make

I thought Russ was being lighthearted in the face of things. It made me grin... Perhaps everyone's taking this too seriously again?

MarkO

I knew exactly what he was intending, and in most instances (e.g., the REWARD thread in general the other day) I'd have taken it in the same spirit.

However, for him to get all arsey about me 'attacking him', and then to try and be funny and take the **** out of me, frankly pisses me off. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Ru$$Rip

Marko, you raise my name once again as a direct reference for yet another debate. I would say thats personal.

And because you dont know me you wont know the nature of why I published that lurvely piccy of you.

[Edited by Ru$$Rip - 10/17/2002 2:08:20 PM]

MarkO

Yes, I was responding to a point you made, and using it as a starting point for a debate. Perhaps I should have linked to your thread instead of naming you?

Fact is, I wasn't rude about you - unlike your intended use of my image.

chiark

MarkO, LMFAO at the piccy.

Ru$$Rip

U gotta admit that its quite funny though ......!!

MarkO

You're implying that something about you (of which I have no knowledge) made it okay? In which case perhaps you'd like to share the joke?

Oh, and you didn't publish the piccy, I did.

[Edited by MarkO - 10/17/2002 2:10:38 PM]

Diablo

Ok, who wants the last word before this thread gets locked?

D

MarkO

You'r locking it on what basis, exactly?

Diablo

Mark,

On the basis that this is now an issue between you and Russip and has absolutely no value to the BBS.