I'm not one for politics, but...
12 September 2002, 11:57 AM
#1
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12 September 2002, 12:16 PM
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LOL
Did you hear the muppet on Radio 4's today program @ 08:45 this morning?
Reckoned that a) The planes were drones b) The flight recorders should've been destroyed in the building (despite the fact that the planes came out the other side
) c) that the buildings were destroyed by the Americans after the crashes in order to perpetuate the myth of Islamic terrorism in order to keep arms manufacturers in business after the cold war 
He refused to condemn murder and terrorist activities & more besides. If it wasn't that he'd been serious, it've been derisable.
Needless to say, he got ripped by the presenter & slated by the muslim MP on at the same time.
There are facts and propaganda on both sides but at least most people can work out the majority of the truth - this chap was in complete denial!
Did you hear the muppet on Radio 4's today program @ 08:45 this morning?
Reckoned that a) The planes were drones b) The flight recorders should've been destroyed in the building (despite the fact that the planes came out the other side
) c) that the buildings were destroyed by the Americans after the crashes in order to perpetuate the myth of Islamic terrorism in order to keep arms manufacturers in business after the cold war He refused to condemn murder and terrorist activities & more besides. If it wasn't that he'd been serious, it've been derisable.
Needless to say, he got ripped by the presenter & slated by the muslim MP on at the same time.
There are facts and propaganda on both sides but at least most people can work out the majority of the truth - this chap was in complete denial!
12 September 2002, 12:18 PM
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<Rant mode on>
These ******* make me wanna puke. They spout their cr@p and then when challenged they pull the racial card.
I have no love forthe BNP as I think that they are small minded, ignorant fools. However, protests like this one serves only to stir these idiots into action.
We can all benefit from multi racial and cultural communities. We just need to find a way of getting rid of the extreamists that keep spreading their hatred.
Laws need to be passed to stop these groups. What they are saying is condoning the actions of the 9/11 cowards and is nothing short of incitement to further acts of terrorism.
They have a right to voice their opinions but not here. They are guests in our country and should be forced to behave in the proper manner or be expelled
<Rant mode off>
These ******* make me wanna puke. They spout their cr@p and then when challenged they pull the racial card.
I have no love forthe BNP as I think that they are small minded, ignorant fools. However, protests like this one serves only to stir these idiots into action.
We can all benefit from multi racial and cultural communities. We just need to find a way of getting rid of the extreamists that keep spreading their hatred.
Laws need to be passed to stop these groups. What they are saying is condoning the actions of the 9/11 cowards and is nothing short of incitement to further acts of terrorism.
They have a right to voice their opinions but not here. They are guests in our country and should be forced to behave in the proper manner or be expelled
<Rant mode off>
12 September 2002, 12:24 PM
#4
Jason
Indeed, but at what point is "the proper manner" determined? & by whom? Its a two-edged sword, let 'em speak - outrage, don't let 'em speak - restriction of human rights.
I'd say let 'em get on with it, but don't report/sensationalise it in the media as it only goes to promote their cause to a wider audience.
Indeed, but at what point is "the proper manner" determined? & by whom? Its a two-edged sword, let 'em speak - outrage, don't let 'em speak - restriction of human rights.
I'd say let 'em get on with it, but don't report/sensationalise it in the media as it only goes to promote their cause to a wider audience.
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12 September 2002, 12:47 PM
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Just my 2p worth.
If you think about it we in the west are a soft target for these idiots. Let me elaborate.
Britain welcomes muslims in and we setup communities for them and we build them mosques etc and schools for their kids and we accept that the Koran is the bible to these religions and we don't complain, can anyone tell me of a muslim country where there are Roman Catholic/Protestent communities setup with a church and school where the bible is taught and we all get on harmoniously???
I didn't think so. Westerners in muslim countries are treated like **** and have to abide by the rules and regulations of that country and if that means not drinking without having your head cut off so be it.
Muslims in western countries are treated like western citizens with all the right of the host country and all the religious needs of the muslim community.
In the UK Seikhs are allowed to carry knives with their seikh uniform as it is a religious thing, wouldn't we be arrested if we caried the same knife in our own country?
I have never read the koran but I would love for someone to point out the bit that says muslims must kill westerners? aparently the Islam religion is supposed to a peaceful one.
All these muslim leaders are claiming western persecution of muslims and islam but arn't most of the terrorist acts around the world caried out in the name of islam?
This was going to be a glowing speach but I have run out of stuff to say.
If you think about it we in the west are a soft target for these idiots. Let me elaborate.
Britain welcomes muslims in and we setup communities for them and we build them mosques etc and schools for their kids and we accept that the Koran is the bible to these religions and we don't complain, can anyone tell me of a muslim country where there are Roman Catholic/Protestent communities setup with a church and school where the bible is taught and we all get on harmoniously???
I didn't think so. Westerners in muslim countries are treated like **** and have to abide by the rules and regulations of that country and if that means not drinking without having your head cut off so be it.
Muslims in western countries are treated like western citizens with all the right of the host country and all the religious needs of the muslim community.
In the UK Seikhs are allowed to carry knives with their seikh uniform as it is a religious thing, wouldn't we be arrested if we caried the same knife in our own country?
I have never read the koran but I would love for someone to point out the bit that says muslims must kill westerners? aparently the Islam religion is supposed to a peaceful one.
All these muslim leaders are claiming western persecution of muslims and islam but arn't most of the terrorist acts around the world caried out in the name of islam?
This was going to be a glowing speach but I have run out of stuff to say.
12 September 2002, 12:56 PM
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wouldn't we be arrested if we caried the same knife in our own country?
12 September 2002, 01:04 PM
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The problem is that the leaders of the islamic world (incl other countries leaders + leading religious figures) are not coming out strong enough with their condemnation of terrorism. Nor is the media going out of their way to say that the leaders (that have so far) are condemning the attacks. This leads to impressionable kids not having any sort of strong leadership apart from the local mad fanatic.
Anyone notice that suicide bombers are never a bloke in their 30/40/50's etc. are they! only teenagers and people in their 20's.
Anyone notice that suicide bombers are never a bloke in their 30/40/50's etc. are they! only teenagers and people in their 20's.
12 September 2002, 01:17 PM
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Wurzel and Paul Habgood.....I couldn't agree more.
One day, when it's too late, we will pay the price for being too soft with these people............just hope it's not sooner than we think.
Steve
One day, when it's too late, we will pay the price for being too soft with these people............just hope it's not sooner than we think.
Steve
12 September 2002, 03:09 PM
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crawf8.
There is no justification in it all, but if the US or whoever start bombing some country without "real" reasons, then there are going to be fanatics who will want revenge.
There is no justification in it all, but if the US or whoever start bombing some country without "real" reasons, then there are going to be fanatics who will want revenge.
12 September 2002, 03:15 PM
#15
Its where you join the line.
Can anyone 100% say that bombing Iraq would be justified? No - I don't think so. Even if Bush baby bamboozles a UN resolution, there will be a large number of countries in the world opposed - therefore in their eyes not justified. 1990/91 was as near a "world" consensus as you're ever likely to get.
However, we'll never have a world where people live in total harmony, as there are always ar$eholes to cause trouble or out to get more (like my EX-boss [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] ).
Can anyone 100% say that bombing Iraq would be justified? No - I don't think so. Even if Bush baby bamboozles a UN resolution, there will be a large number of countries in the world opposed - therefore in their eyes not justified. 1990/91 was as near a "world" consensus as you're ever likely to get.
However, we'll never have a world where people live in total harmony, as there are always ar$eholes to cause trouble or out to get more (like my EX-boss [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] ).
12 September 2002, 03:20 PM
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I have no problem accepting other peoples faith(s)... What I do have a problem with is using 'faith' as a means to support violence.
I challenge anyone to show me an accepted religious text (Koran, Bible etc...) that condones violence against another person or their faith.
People using faith as a reason for violence are very twisted individuals and probably not much use to the rest of us (the majority) on this planet - therefor they should be 'removed' permanently like a leech off Tara's leg.
Mak.
I challenge anyone to show me an accepted religious text (Koran, Bible etc...) that condones violence against another person or their faith.
People using faith as a reason for violence are very twisted individuals and probably not much use to the rest of us (the majority) on this planet - therefor they should be 'removed' permanently like a leech off Tara's leg.
Mak.
12 September 2002, 03:24 PM
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Like I said in the title, I don't follow politics much, and therefore wouldn't like to get into a debate about Iraq and the likes, as I would probably come off sounding stupid, as I don't know the facts. But what I do know is that what the people at this so-called conference were saying is very wrong and there beliefs are very dangerous to our way of life in this country. If they are citizens then there should be some law against it, if they aren't citizens then send them home!
12 September 2002, 03:42 PM
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lets imagine the flip side of the coin
I would like to go to Afghanistan/Iraq (is there any difference) & open a chip shop with my wife, who will be working in a short skirt & a see through topWhen we get over there I expect the authorities to adopt my culture & give me some grants to help get my new business under way.
Also I will hold a rally shouting that I fully support the bombing of both countries.
I wonder what the response would be
I would like to go to Afghanistan/Iraq (is there any difference) & open a chip shop with my wife, who will be working in a short skirt & a see through topWhen we get over there I expect the authorities to adopt my culture & give me some grants to help get my new business under way.
Also I will hold a rally shouting that I fully support the bombing of both countries.
I wonder what the response would be
12 September 2002, 09:12 PM
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The conference was called 'September 11 : A Towering Day in History' - WTF!!! How ******* devoid of reality or just plain sick are these people?!
What ever possessed the authorities to allow such a conference? I just don't understand this country anymore. I am NOT racist but it's about time we stopped bending over backwards for fear of offending some minority or other when there is a legitimate and common sense approach to say NO!
I don't want to start a religious argument but how many Fatwahs (Holy Wars) have been declared by Muslims, are other 'peace-loving' religions quite so quick to take up arms whenever somebody disagrees or opposes their view point.
DP.
What ever possessed the authorities to allow such a conference? I just don't understand this country anymore. I am NOT racist but it's about time we stopped bending over backwards for fear of offending some minority or other when there is a legitimate and common sense approach to say NO!
I don't want to start a religious argument but how many Fatwahs (Holy Wars) have been declared by Muslims, are other 'peace-loving' religions quite so quick to take up arms whenever somebody disagrees or opposes their view point.
DP.
12 September 2002, 10:14 PM
#27
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Luke, if you're married to a muslim then you'll know that Islam is a moderate and temperate religion that does not promote violence or extremism.
quote:
"Any thucking person from anywhere who's relgion etc agrees with this sort of thing....Thuck off home. "
quote:
"Any thucking person from anywhere who's relgion etc agrees with this sort of thing....Thuck off home. "
13 September 2002, 07:42 AM
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IMHO
Simon with the greatest respect i do not believe anyone contributing to this thread has declared that all Muslims are the same or should be kicked out of the UK, only the extremests and trouble makers which is fair.
Quote
This has been blown way, way out of proportion by the media and by ill-educated and biggoted commentary. About 100 fruitcakes attended this which leaves about (2 million - 100) british muslims who didn't go. I think you'll find that the BNP can muster more than 100 people for one of their tolerant meetings/marches. end quote
I am more interested questioning and interning/deporting the 100 fruitcakes, these are the problem along with people like them, Muslim or not.
If people settle in the UK then they Must adopt its laws and fit into society, learnm it's language, etc if they find that it goes against their relligion/whatever then they need to think about going elsewhere. If i moved to say Spain then i would do the same.
The likes of the BNP (who make me sick) and such have the same rights under freedom of speech, if they decide to blow things up, and pose a danger to the UK population then lock them up.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/13/2002 7:54:35 AM]
Simon with the greatest respect i do not believe anyone contributing to this thread has declared that all Muslims are the same or should be kicked out of the UK, only the extremests and trouble makers which is fair.
Quote
This has been blown way, way out of proportion by the media and by ill-educated and biggoted commentary. About 100 fruitcakes attended this which leaves about (2 million - 100) british muslims who didn't go. I think you'll find that the BNP can muster more than 100 people for one of their tolerant meetings/marches. end quote
I am more interested questioning and interning/deporting the 100 fruitcakes, these are the problem along with people like them, Muslim or not.
If people settle in the UK then they Must adopt its laws and fit into society, learnm it's language, etc if they find that it goes against their relligion/whatever then they need to think about going elsewhere. If i moved to say Spain then i would do the same.
The likes of the BNP (who make me sick) and such have the same rights under freedom of speech, if they decide to blow things up, and pose a danger to the UK population then lock them up.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/13/2002 7:54:35 AM]
13 September 2002, 09:12 AM
#30
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Paul, please don't take my comments as being directed at the postings on this thread, the majority of which are level headed and balanced.
My gripe is with the sensationalist approach taken by the media to this bloke which has played right into his hands. He's a lunatic extremist who'd like a bit of publicity please. He turns up when the world is focued on the 9/11 comemorations and starts spouting off his lunatic claptrap. This finds sympathy with a couple of home grown halfwits who go along to his "conference". The press, however, go off at the deep end, splashing it across all the front pages and filling the news broadcasts with it.
Is this not doing his work for him? What does he want? Islamic revolution. How does he believe he's going to get? Whip up anti-muslim feeling which will precipitate anti-christian feeling and bob's your uncle.
So the front page of the Sun (or wherever) announces evil muslim conference. Average bloke in the street reads it and thinks "cor, them bloody muslims...". He's not going to look into the actual facts of the situation and chances are he'll be left with the opinion that most or all muslims are a bunch of terrorists....
Events like this need to be starved of the oxygen of publicity - this is unlikely as they sell papers.
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal. I fly in the RAF and have served in the Middle East, Boz, Kosovo and Afghanistan. I have very strong feelings about this governments woolly approach to the refugee problem. I fully agree that people emigrating into this country need to make an effort to fit in with our way of life and that the government probably is too afraid of offending people to clamp down on certain bizarre practices, religious or otherwise. I just to object, very strongly, to some of the narrow minded, bigoted horsesh1t that has spilt out across the media in recent days....
My gripe is with the sensationalist approach taken by the media to this bloke which has played right into his hands. He's a lunatic extremist who'd like a bit of publicity please. He turns up when the world is focued on the 9/11 comemorations and starts spouting off his lunatic claptrap. This finds sympathy with a couple of home grown halfwits who go along to his "conference". The press, however, go off at the deep end, splashing it across all the front pages and filling the news broadcasts with it.
Is this not doing his work for him? What does he want? Islamic revolution. How does he believe he's going to get? Whip up anti-muslim feeling which will precipitate anti-christian feeling and bob's your uncle.
So the front page of the Sun (or wherever) announces evil muslim conference. Average bloke in the street reads it and thinks "cor, them bloody muslims...". He's not going to look into the actual facts of the situation and chances are he'll be left with the opinion that most or all muslims are a bunch of terrorists....
Events like this need to be starved of the oxygen of publicity - this is unlikely as they sell papers.
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal. I fly in the RAF and have served in the Middle East, Boz, Kosovo and Afghanistan. I have very strong feelings about this governments woolly approach to the refugee problem. I fully agree that people emigrating into this country need to make an effort to fit in with our way of life and that the government probably is too afraid of offending people to clamp down on certain bizarre practices, religious or otherwise. I just to object, very strongly, to some of the narrow minded, bigoted horsesh1t that has spilt out across the media in recent days....