paulr

..which i will not be observing.
Instead i will save up all these 'minutes' and when i've accumulated an hour,i will go and see an elderly relative that i haven't seen for a while.

In short,i'll be exchanging something 'fake' for something 'real'

worley

Paul, I agree. We've had this debate at work. How many times can you have a minutes silence in a year?

OK we must remember the terror and the atrocities over the past one hundred years and learn from these events - but where do you draw the line on minutes silence?

1, 2, 3 minutes?
1st week / month / year?
5th ?
10th ?
25th ?

Do we make cards for such events? Clintons would make an even bigger fortune. Already have to buy enough cards to satisfy GF, family and friends, colleagues.

My boss wanted us to stop for the Queen mums minute. Fortunately I was on the phone at the time to someone in the US...who knew nothing about it! (scandalous).

I'll stop there.

medders

It's about showing respect to people who needlessly died. Something which is sadly lacking in this country any more......
Some would say that the growing lack of respect for others is why this country is turning into a big pile of sh1te.

Grottbags

Maybe it's got something to do with no-one showing our nation respect when the IRA were killing people.

Look at all the respect we got off the American Government, they actually gave them money so they could keeping bombing us.

TelBoy

Paul/Worley,

What's a minute of your time?

What are you proving, and to whom, by not observing it?

Please show some respect to those of us who lost colleagues this time last year. Thank you.

Terry

Pavlo

instead, you just wasted a minute writing your above post

medders

British people died too grottbags......

Foot_Tapper

'ere we go.. I think if you wanna have the mnutes silence its a personal thing. But for NOT observing the multitudes of them
that countries have organised, people should not be branded
disrespectful due to peer pressure.
I observed the original..back along, but will not be observing the rest. What about Lockerbie (for those that remember) or the
London tube & rail disasters.

A dit on terrorism
I used to be in the Royal Navy, when the the IRA was in more of a swing. I visited the US east coast (Savanna in Geogia).
Whilst in a pub with some mates; these guys come in rattling tins.
Collecting money to give to the IRA.
One of them asked a lad in our company to shell out.
The lad was actually a member of the Royal Signals, attached to us.
Not suprisingly he took umbridge at this, and promptly decked him.

So much for the US against terrorism.

Nuff said... too much coffee

paulr

Telboy....you obviously had a *real* connection to some of the people that died and i can understand you wanting to show your respects today................but for most people they have no connection at all,so IMO a minutes silence,and all that goes with it, is OTT.

Jon1T

The two minutes silence should be held only to remember the dead from two wars - the millions of dead from two wars. However righteous all these other silences are they just denigrate this - soon they'll be silences for any tragic event - and where do you draw the line?

TelBoy

After one year, imo. The one year anniversary is as much as this needs.

I certainly don't intend to have a minute's silence this time next year, i think it becomes a personal thing thereafter.

And i agree that Rememberance Day is the best way to commemorate the cumulative casualties of all wars.

Terry

And Pavlo, go spin on it mate.

Grottbags

Medders - Don't get me wrong, I do feel for those who have lost loved ones, British or otherwise.

I'm just saying lets put this into perspective. British have been dying at the hands of terrorists for years. Does anyone observe a minutes silence for them anywhere out of this country?

Yeah, I thought not.

medders

My apologies to you. I'm in argue mode today for some reason.
I agree it all gets too much, and it takes away the meaning of the BIG events (war etc), but i stand by the respect thing.

cheers

Paul

Tiggs

its weird isnt it how if you die needlessly in a car wreck..hit by a drunk you are just a number. But if you die in an event that makes the news and is good for TV then you get all the trimmings at national cathedrals.

not right or wrong...just weird.

T

ps- good point about visiting a granny! wonder how many people who do the quuen mum, soham, etc spend time with their own family???

if they set up a Diana memorial i would refuse entry to anyone that cant prove they have visited their grandparents grave within the last 6 months!

MarkO

Bit unfair on all those whose grandparents are still alive.

Tiggs

well im just tough like that

paulr

3.8 million children under 5 died in Africa last year which has a child mortality rate of 15%.Europe has a rate of 2%.

And how many of those that observe the minutes silence,lay flowers at some Diana memorial,etc,etc will be among the first to complain about the governments level of foreign aid.

Like i said,its the *phoneyness* of it all that i object to.

TelBoy

Paul,

I think the clear distinction is that one is a natural disaster; Diana's death, 09/11 and the World Wars were not.

Humans cannot dwell on the vaguaries of nature, but we can express emotion when something unexpected like the above happens.

Sure, for a majority of people it might be a "phoney" sense of grief, but that doesn't make it wrong, or give anybody the right to criticise it. You probably do lots of irrational things in your personal life, and don't expect to be moralised about them. Live and let live.

Terry

Tiggs

paul, those kids are to far away (geographicaly, culturaly and race) for most ppl in the west to care, grim but true.

T

MarkO

I beg to differ. Most of the deaths caused by famine in 3rd-world countries are not 'natural disasters', in as much as they are entirely preventable. Enough food is produced in the world to feed every man, woman and child - it's just that it's not distributed fairly. Also, a large number of the famine deaths in the world come as a direct consequence of the wars being fought in the areas (stopping crop production) and of the dictatorship governments using the country's resources to pay for weapons and so on. To assume that the 3rd-world mortality rate is 'natural' and unalterable is just naive and blinkered.

I think the point here is that the silences are being imposed on people, which makes them meaningless. The whole point of the minutes' silence is that it should be a voluntary period during which the participants can reflect on the event.

However, as soon as the silence becomes imposed, people for whom the event has no relevance will find it impossible to show the 'required' respect, and will be villified. A classic example of this was the 'Nick Wild' situation, where I was slated for posting at the wrong time despite me not knowing Nick, and not knowing about the planned silence.

I would also suggest that mentioning the UK general public's hysterical lemming-like media-fuelled irrational reaction to Diana's death in the same breath as those killed on 11/9 and during the two world wars is insulting to all involved. Not to mention the fact that Diana's death was a simple accident, and not an intentional destruction of life like the other two events.

People in this country really need to get a grip on their own opinions and emotions, and do what they think is right, rather than just pandering to the media and the expected reactions of their peers. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

EvilBevel

As an aside, lots of the firefighters (the majority apparently) and family of the victims didn't go to ground zero yesterday, just because of the press/pressure.

Some people prefer to grieve/reflect when they want to, how they want to. The time of day, even the date, can be highly irrelevant.

For me, watching the Naudet brothers documentary all alone in the house yesterday was such a moment. The minute silence wasn't.

TelBoy

Mark, whatever.

I don't want to get into a debate about artificially keeping every conceived human being on this planet fed and watered.

But i think the anti-reaction to the call for a minute's silence is overblown. If you were personally involved in any of these sort of incidents, i think you would like to know that others cared, and were sharing your grief, just for 60 seconds of their lives. It comforted me. Thankyou.

Terry

MarkO

Pfffff. Boring.

Diablo

I agree with MarkO on this one.

By all means have your own minutes silence, but it should not be imposed on all. Grieve in your own way if it is relevant to you.

And don't get me started on Princess Bl**dy Diana. She died in a car crash while out on a date with her bit on the side. Plain and simple. Certainly not a national disaster, thats for sure. And ceratinly not worthy of all the hysteria.

I didn't know her, so it was just another road death as far as I was concerned.

9/11 was a tragedy for those involved, of that there is no doubt. There are many other equally (to those concerned) tragic events happening all the time. Ok, not on that scale, but still tragic nevertheless.

Don't think for one minute that the whole UK memorial service thing was anything other that political. It was simply a show in support of Bush and those who orchestrated the idea will have had no thought for those who died.

That sucks, but that, unfortunately, is life.....

D

MarkO

I think that's pushing it far too far. A large number of British people died in the towers, to it was fitting to have a memorial here for them too. Also, many of the people killed were work colleagues of UK companies or were somehow related via business...

Diablo

I appreciate that many Brits died as well, but as many brits have died in other terrorist attacks and no such memorial service has been organised......

OK, call it a show of solidarity then, but the concept will have been political to begin with.

D

MarkO

Fair point. But the issue here is that there should, perhaps, be memorials for other deaths - not that there shouldn't have been a memorial for these ones.

Diablo

I'm cool with that

there is too much inconsistency

MarkO

Couldn't agree more.

Perhaps we should start campaigning for more silences. How about we start with Dec 2nd, for the Bhopal gas disaster? The 20th anniversary is in a little over 2 years' time...

MATTeL

It has been 20 years since Bohpal?!

I remember seeing that on TV... it doesn't seem to be that long ago.