Who thinks 70 mph is too low a limit?
09 January 2002, 10:19 PM
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Who has ever been nicked for doing 80mph on a dry clear motorway....
We already do have almost an 80mph limit 70 + 10% + 2mph = 79mph
I'm sure the thinking behind not officially raising it is 80mph is (as has been stated in a previous post) that people would then start doing 80 + 10% + 2mph = 90mph without actually thinking about the extra speed they are doing...
Edited due to stupidity!
[Edited by Mufasa - 9/1/2002 10:40:05 PM]
We already do have almost an 80mph limit 70 + 10% + 2mph = 79mph
I'm sure the thinking behind not officially raising it is 80mph is (as has been stated in a previous post) that people would then start doing 80 + 10% + 2mph = 90mph without actually thinking about the extra speed they are doing...
Edited due to stupidity!
[Edited by Mufasa - 9/1/2002 10:40:05 PM]
09 January 2002, 10:58 PM
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Said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again. Speed does not cause accidents, it only makes them worse.
The *cause* of accidents is bad driveing to reduce accidents we need to improve general driving skill.
Making the driving test more difficult was a good start, but it only affects new drivers. I'd be in favour of compulsary re-tests every 10 - 20 years. At least then the drivers I see who've quite obviously forgotten everything they've ever learnt about driving (especially lane discipline, the ability to follow road signs etc) would have to dreage up that knowledge from time to time to actually remain on the road.
Edited to say, I include myself fully in the above comments. If I had to take the test tomorrow, I'd have trouble passing. I probably would, but not if I drove the way I normally do. Tho I can at least pick the correct lane when given the choice of 3.
[Edited by Maddriver - 9/1/2002 11:29:35 PM]
The *cause* of accidents is bad driveing to reduce accidents we need to improve general driving skill.
Making the driving test more difficult was a good start, but it only affects new drivers. I'd be in favour of compulsary re-tests every 10 - 20 years. At least then the drivers I see who've quite obviously forgotten everything they've ever learnt about driving (especially lane discipline, the ability to follow road signs etc) would have to dreage up that knowledge from time to time to actually remain on the road.
Edited to say, I include myself fully in the above comments. If I had to take the test tomorrow, I'd have trouble passing. I probably would, but not if I drove the way I normally do. Tho I can at least pick the correct lane when given the choice of 3.
[Edited by Maddriver - 9/1/2002 11:29:35 PM]
01 September 2002, 07:34 PM
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I can't believe that in this day and age with the progression of moddern cars that the speed limit on our motorways is still only 70 mph!
even most 1 litre cars can do this speed comfortably. I know I for one would always do in excess of the limit if I wasn't such a law abiding citizen
85-90 mph is a nice crusing speed on my private road I except that conditions and traffic have a big part to play but on a clear day with low traffic 70 mph is a joke!! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
even most 1 litre cars can do this speed comfortably. I know I for one would always do in excess of the limit if I wasn't such a law abiding citizen
85-90 mph is a nice crusing speed on my private road I except that conditions and traffic have a big part to play but on a clear day with low traffic 70 mph is a joke!! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
01 September 2002, 08:33 PM
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Find 140 fine on my private road
Feel an 80-90 speed limit would much improve driving, also training on lane discipline should be given, that is surely one of the reasons our motorway network is crap.
Feel an 80-90 speed limit would much improve driving, also training on lane discipline should be given, that is surely one of the reasons our motorway network is crap.
01 September 2002, 08:38 PM
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This is what the ABD says:
They are calling for a 
speed limit and I agree. 70 is far too slow for modern cars. Most can stop up to 50% quicker than the offical figures in the highway code.
Have a look at there site here
The 70 mph speed limit on motorways has been in force since December 1965. It was introduced as an illogical reaction to a series of multiple accidents in poor weather conditions. That such accidents occurred and continue to occur is not surprising, since drivers have never been offered effective training in judging speed and distance within the unique visual environment of a motorway.
A 70 mph speed limit imposed in good conditions could not and has not prevented these accidents. The report on the 70 mph 'experiment' attempted to justify its continuation but provided no valid evidence that accidents had reduced.
In the last 35 years, substantial improvements have been made in vehicle and highway engineering. Drivers have become much more accustomed to motorway driving, even though training is still inadequate. In 1965, 70 mph represented more than 80% of the maximum speed of average cars. Now it represents only 60%. The result is that 56% of car drivers exceed the motorway speed limit.
The widespread lack of compliance with the 70 mph speed limit is an indication of its irrelevance to modern conditions and is detrimental to respect for speed limits in general. Other adverse effects of the outdated speed limit are the creation of traffic bunching, poor lane discipline and lack of driver concentration. It is also preventing the full economic benefits being achieved from the nation's investment in a high-standard motorway network.
A 70 mph speed limit imposed in good conditions could not and has not prevented these accidents. The report on the 70 mph 'experiment' attempted to justify its continuation but provided no valid evidence that accidents had reduced.
In the last 35 years, substantial improvements have been made in vehicle and highway engineering. Drivers have become much more accustomed to motorway driving, even though training is still inadequate. In 1965, 70 mph represented more than 80% of the maximum speed of average cars. Now it represents only 60%. The result is that 56% of car drivers exceed the motorway speed limit.
The widespread lack of compliance with the 70 mph speed limit is an indication of its irrelevance to modern conditions and is detrimental to respect for speed limits in general. Other adverse effects of the outdated speed limit are the creation of traffic bunching, poor lane discipline and lack of driver concentration. It is also preventing the full economic benefits being achieved from the nation's investment in a high-standard motorway network.
speed limit and I agree. 70 is far too slow for modern cars. Most can stop up to 50% quicker than the offical figures in the highway code.Have a look at there site here
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01 September 2002, 08:50 PM
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01 September 2002, 08:57 PM
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Problem is would a higher limit improve people's total lack of awareness of what they are doing? The amount of people I have seen recently in 70's who are totally oblivious to other cars is staggering (same in Germany by the way). No matter what the limit we'll always push it a tad further won't we? 
As an example no speed limit would have prevented the dosey cow who was shouting at her kids pulling out in front of me earlier today, yes I was speeding but thank **** I saw what was about to happen otherwise I could have been scoobieless now!
As an example no speed limit would have prevented the dosey cow who was shouting at her kids pulling out in front of me earlier today, yes I was speeding but thank **** I saw what was about to happen otherwise I could have been scoobieless now!
01 September 2002, 09:10 PM
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Wish we had the ABD out here in the land of Cheese & Chocolate (Switzerland).
The newspapers here were full of proposed 'zero tollerance' policy which would see speed limits REDUCED by 10kmph! from the already low 80kmph limit on national roads They recognise that this will not eliminate all accidents it should reduce the consquences of them ie. deaths. The fac is that 544 died on the roads here last year. A big improvement from 1700+ in 1971 but the next target is to reduce the total deaths to <300 by 2010.
They are even talking about the mechanical limitation of motorbikes to 80kmph max
Personally, I am anti-limits and pro-Darwinism!
The newspapers here were full of proposed 'zero tollerance' policy which would see speed limits REDUCED by 10kmph! from the already low 80kmph limit on national roads
They recognise that this will not eliminate all accidents it should reduce the consquences of them ie. deaths. The fac is that 544 died on the roads here last year. A big improvement from 1700+ in 1971 but the next target is to reduce the total deaths to <300 by 2010.They are even talking about the mechanical limitation of motorbikes to 80kmph max
Personally, I am anti-limits and pro-Darwinism!
01 September 2002, 10:12 PM
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dunno where this idea of france being a driving mecca comes from - they have two and half times the number of road deaths than the UK and anyone who's worked or lived in paris will tell you that their congestion is equal to Londons'. Sure out in the sticks its fine - but so is scotland or god knows, mid wales.
Anyway the 70 or 80 mph business has nothing to do with the cars we're driving, its to do with the drivers. Scares me sh*tless watching folk flying along, mobiles, music, cigaretts, maps on their laps, 2" off the back of the guy in front...
Anyway the 70 or 80 mph business has nothing to do with the cars we're driving, its to do with the drivers. Scares me sh*tless watching folk flying along, mobiles, music, cigaretts, maps on their laps, 2" off the back of the guy in front...
01 September 2002, 11:00 PM
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that report makes interesting reading.
Apparently if speed limits were removed, most traffic would travel under 95 anyway.
I think they should consider upping the limit to 90-95 or removing it alltogether. and the fact that speeding penalties are harsher is stupidity as the motorway is probably the safest place to go fast.
Which government is going to do this though? is anyone interested in motorists at all?
Apparently if speed limits were removed, most traffic would travel under 95 anyway.
I think they should consider upping the limit to 90-95 or removing it alltogether. and the fact that speeding penalties are harsher is stupidity as the motorway is probably the safest place to go fast.
Which government is going to do this though? is anyone interested in motorists at all?
01 September 2002, 11:44 PM
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I'll put my 2p worth in now...
Yes, I drive a Scoob - usually fast. But not always!!
I've travelled on the motorways at 60mph in it before now, as well as substantially faster (I'd rather not say how much).
When I had my old Pug, I used to stick to between 60 and 65 most of the time, as it was uncomfortable and probably not safe to run it faster.
Not everyone is out to fly as fast as the car will go - but we do need some speed differential on the roads to space the traffic out.
I try to base my speed on the conditions, the traffic and the capabilities of the car I'm driving. My Scoob feels safer at 120 than my Pug did at 70. (and the stopping distance is better in the Scoob)
I think that driver education for Mways is ESSENTIAL. There is none officially, so I had to learn from Dad (long distance HGV driver) and while he's a good driver, there should be a better way to learn about Mways - and it should be compulsory before you use them!
Yes, I drive a Scoob - usually fast. But not always!!
I've travelled on the motorways at 60mph in it before now, as well as substantially faster (I'd rather not say how much).
When I had my old Pug, I used to stick to between 60 and 65 most of the time, as it was uncomfortable and probably not safe to run it faster.
Not everyone is out to fly as fast as the car will go - but we do need some speed differential on the roads to space the traffic out.
I try to base my speed on the conditions, the traffic and the capabilities of the car I'm driving. My Scoob feels safer at 120 than my Pug did at 70. (and the stopping distance is better in the Scoob)
I think that driver education for Mways is ESSENTIAL. There is none officially, so I had to learn from Dad (long distance HGV driver) and while he's a good driver, there should be a better way to learn about Mways - and it should be compulsory before you use them!
01 September 2002, 11:49 PM
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Exactly, speed should always be relative to what you are driving and the conditions around you.
A blanket limit does not take this into account, it's just easy to enforce.
A blanket limit does not take this into account, it's just easy to enforce.
02 September 2002, 12:37 AM
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one of the reasons people mess around so much is that they are bored withy travelling at ludicrous speeds in cars that could safely do 50% more.
With unlimited speed limits or at least higher ones, the Police could spend more time pulling dangerous drivers and those using phones, tailgating etc. instead of someone who may be perfectly safe, but a little fast!
Dangerous drivers and driving cause accidents, not speed that is appropriate to the conditions.
With unlimited speed limits or at least higher ones, the Police could spend more time pulling dangerous drivers and those using phones, tailgating etc. instead of someone who may be perfectly safe, but a little fast!
Dangerous drivers and driving cause accidents, not speed that is appropriate to the conditions.
02 September 2002, 02:48 AM
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I have no quarms (??) driving at 120-130mph if I can see it's safe to do so. The govt. need to take their heads out from their ***** and do something about this. I also think there should be compulsory advanced driving tests, so this should wean all those crap annoying (and dangerous) drivers off the roads also coz they'd never pass.
One other thing which I feel is true, do you not find if some ars$hole infront of you is going really slowly it makes your blood boil and you have to end up screaming past them to show them they're out of order. I feel people like this actually cause alot of accidents inadvertantly.
One other thing which I feel is true, do you not find if some ars$hole infront of you is going really slowly it makes your blood boil and you have to end up screaming past them to show them they're out of order. I feel people like this actually cause alot of accidents inadvertantly.
02 September 2002, 09:19 AM
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"I have no quarms (??) driving at 120-130mph if I can see it's safe to do so."
this is exactly why NO gov will EVER allow it- you CAN NOT drive at 130mph around the UK. its a daft idea that will not be seen in our lifetime.
T
this is exactly why NO gov will EVER allow it- you CAN NOT drive at 130mph around the UK. its a daft idea that will not be seen in our lifetime.
T
02 September 2002, 09:48 AM
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70mph is too low. Nearly all drivers break this limit. Below are the results of a recent survey carried out on the M1 near J19...
As you can see, only one vehicle was clocked at doing less than 70 in the outside lane..
As you can see, only one vehicle was clocked at doing less than 70 in the outside lane..
02 September 2002, 09:55 AM
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Mad-driver!! Thank **** for your post
I really did believe that I was the only person on the planet that had grasped this concept. Your right, speed seldom causes an accident but it very often makes things a lot worse.
For example, think how few road deaths (through knocking down) there would be if people didn't walk out in front of cars!! Teaching people how to cross a road would make a big difference IMO
I really did believe that I was the only person on the planet that had grasped this concept. Your right, speed seldom causes an accident but it very often makes things a lot worse.
For example, think how few road deaths (through knocking down) there would be if people didn't walk out in front of cars!! Teaching people how to cross a road would make a big difference IMO
02 September 2002, 10:25 AM
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I agree, speed alone isn't the cause, but it makes a HUGE difference to the outcome to an accident.
Yes, if people didn't step out in front of cars road deaths would fall dramatically, but the chances of that happening are pretty slim.
People, by nature, switch off pretty easily especially when they're just bimbling along, minds in neutral. Makes much more sense to reduce the speed of the 1/2ton of metal driving towards them.
An careless idiot on the street is bad enough, bad a careless idiot behind the wheel is much worse.
So, no, I don't think speed limits should be increased.
Obviously with Motorways, you shouldn't have someone with a death wish stepping out in front of you, but what you do get is cars driving far too close to each other and the sudden need to jump on your anchors coz the half-mile of cars in front decide to all come to a stop.
Modern cars may stop quicker, but peoples reactions are just too slow and they're travelling far too close together for it to make any difference.
Nimbus,
Do you think if they raised the speed limit to 80 that those graphs would just take a jump by 10mph to the right? If the limit is 80, people will just drive above that; just like they already do.
It won't reduce accidents and won't reduce people constantly breaking the law.
So, do you all think the government (and ultimately us tax payers) are going to pay for everyone to get proper driver training or simply re-paint some road signs and continue the same policing methods?
Stefan
Yes, if people didn't step out in front of cars road deaths would fall dramatically, but the chances of that happening are pretty slim.
People, by nature, switch off pretty easily especially when they're just bimbling along, minds in neutral. Makes much more sense to reduce the speed of the 1/2ton of metal driving towards them.
An careless idiot on the street is bad enough, bad a careless idiot behind the wheel is much worse.
So, no, I don't think speed limits should be increased.
Obviously with Motorways, you shouldn't have someone with a death wish stepping out in front of you, but what you do get is cars driving far too close to each other and the sudden need to jump on your anchors coz the half-mile of cars in front decide to all come to a stop.
Modern cars may stop quicker, but peoples reactions are just too slow and they're travelling far too close together for it to make any difference.
Nimbus,
Do you think if they raised the speed limit to 80 that those graphs would just take a jump by 10mph to the right? If the limit is 80, people will just drive above that; just like they already do.
It won't reduce accidents and won't reduce people constantly breaking the law.
So, do you all think the government (and ultimately us tax payers) are going to pay for everyone to get proper driver training or simply re-paint some road signs and continue the same policing methods?
Stefan
02 September 2002, 10:54 AM
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Stefan,
No, I don't think you would see a 10mph jump in the gragh. I think (most) people drive at a speed they think is suitable. 80mph to me is suitable. If the speed was raised to 80, I would not drive at 90.
No, I don't think you would see a 10mph jump in the gragh. I think (most) people drive at a speed they think is suitable. 80mph to me is suitable. If the speed was raised to 80, I would not drive at 90.
02 September 2002, 11:28 AM
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Personaly I tend to ignore speed limits. I drive or ride at a speed appropriate to the conditions. Imagine this; In town with a 30 limit, would you do close to the limit when passing a junior school at home time? Of course not, you'd likely kill a kid. Now imaging that same stretch or road at 3AM, you could probably safely drive at 100 plus. I would'nt actually do that it's just to illustrate a point. I believe good observation is the key to safe driving at any speed. Being able to anticipate the actions of other road users etc. Low speed limits can also cause rather than prevent accidents. When driving slowly, well under the ability of both car and driver, your attention to your suroundings will start to wander. This lack of concentration could prove fatal. On the other hand if you are driving at a speed that requires your attention to be focused there is a much reduced likelyhood to make a mistake.
02 September 2002, 12:14 PM
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A few years back I got done for speeding on a motorway. Now this was in a newish Mercedes so the car had all the latest safety features, traction control, big breaks, ABS, EBC the works. I was on the M1 at about 9.30pm on a weekday. This was mid-summer so the sun hadn't gone down yet. I was clocked doing 93 miles an hour. Now although this is obviously over the speed limit this was only mometary as I was driving an automatic so didn't realise my speed and and as soon as I did I dropped back donw to about 75. There were hardly any other cars on the road, the roads where dry and visibilty was excellent.
I was just sat in the middle lane cruising along. All of a sudden I saw the dreaded blue lights in my rearview mirror. Now this police car had been parked on an overpass so by the time they got onto the motorway I had travelled a fair distance so they had to travel at 130mph for nearly 5 minutes to catch me. When they pulled me over and told me I was speeding, I tried to explain to them that yes I may have been speeding but the conditions and my driving were in no way dangerous and surely this was the main point to consider here. Did they agree? Did they f***. They gave me a ticket for which I got several points and a fine. I reckon some joyriders get an easier time than they gave me. Just goes to show that common sense has nothing to do with speed limits and the policing of them IMHO. In fact I really think that motorists get shafted from every angle in this country.
I was just sat in the middle lane cruising along. All of a sudden I saw the dreaded blue lights in my rearview mirror. Now this police car had been parked on an overpass so by the time they got onto the motorway I had travelled a fair distance so they had to travel at 130mph for nearly 5 minutes to catch me. When they pulled me over and told me I was speeding, I tried to explain to them that yes I may have been speeding but the conditions and my driving were in no way dangerous and surely this was the main point to consider here. Did they agree? Did they f***. They gave me a ticket for which I got several points and a fine. I reckon some joyriders get an easier time than they gave me. Just goes to show that common sense has nothing to do with speed limits and the policing of them IMHO. In fact I really think that motorists get shafted from every angle in this country.
02 September 2002, 12:32 PM
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rather then focus on speed the goverment/police should focus on lane discipline and awarness training. The fist thing that I always notice on the continent is how the lane dscipline makes for a much safer/smoother driving...
If they got rid of the middle lane melvins congestion and concertina braking would be reduced....also is it nor more dangerous to be doing 110mph flat out in a fiesta in the outside lane is surely more dangerous than 110mph in a P1.As clarkson once pointed it out..its not the 0-60 that kills you its your ability to go from 60-0...
If they got rid of the middle lane melvins congestion and concertina braking would be reduced....also is it nor more dangerous to be doing 110mph flat out in a fiesta in the outside lane is surely more dangerous than 110mph in a P1.As clarkson once pointed it out..its not the 0-60 that kills you its your ability to go from 60-0...
02 September 2002, 12:56 PM
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I think it should be raised to 80 or 90 on the motorways but I don't think I'd drive any faster. I know the gearing of my car so I never bother to look at the speedo when driving in 5th gear. I usually drive on or below 3k rpm which is exactly 72mph and I'm more than happy to cruise at that because it feels appropriate (I know I could go 80mph without much risk of being pulled but I choose not to).
Granted (being a scooby owner) I'll sometimes go above this but not for the purpose of cruising at that higher speed. It's idiots that thunder into a populated 30mph zone at 45-50 that need to be seen to!
Granted (being a scooby owner) I'll sometimes go above this but not for the purpose of cruising at that higher speed. It's idiots that thunder into a populated 30mph zone at 45-50 that need to be seen to!
02 September 2002, 03:14 PM
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There is no reason to have speed limits on the motorway other than at junctions where people driving slowly enter the motorway. The German example proves this.
I mean no safety reasons. There are obviously reasons to make money out of people going faster...
Reasons for which accidents happen include refusal to give way (intentional or not, eg. stop signs, red lights, changing lanes without looking, overtaking when lane not free, etc.) and lack of driving ability (eg. losing rear or front grip and spinning off the road).
Speed is only a reason for an accident to happen in the sense that if no one were moving, no one could crash into another vehicle. Other than that, the faster you go, the harder you crash IF you have an accident, obviously. But then again, nobody HAS TO go as fast as their car allows, it should however be ALLOWED to do so.
I mean no safety reasons. There are obviously reasons to make money out of people going faster...
Reasons for which accidents happen include refusal to give way (intentional or not, eg. stop signs, red lights, changing lanes without looking, overtaking when lane not free, etc.) and lack of driving ability (eg. losing rear or front grip and spinning off the road).
Speed is only a reason for an accident to happen in the sense that if no one were moving, no one could crash into another vehicle. Other than that, the faster you go, the harder you crash IF you have an accident, obviously. But then again, nobody HAS TO go as fast as their car allows, it should however be ALLOWED to do so.
