normarker

If you really want to know where the figure for an average wage comes from, consider.
How many people on silly money, $1m or more a year, does it take
to push the average up?
How many on £10000 a year does it take to bring it back down again?
I work in the NHS as a senior grade MLSO.
Apart from Dan Horwhich (sp) nobody here has a clue what that is.
That explains my salary.


[Edited by normarker - 9/1/2002 12:30:45 AM]

Chip

Seen lots of posters hanging around fire ststions trying to get public support for a fair pay for firemen(yeah and ladies).

Nothing wrong with that I thought til I realised they only want a rise of some 45% taking them 21500 to 30000. Are they taking the pi$$ or what.

I know there job is dangerous but then so is mine. I face danger nearly every day in my job but dont get a rise of this amount.

Seems to me they spend most of there days either playing snooker or painting hydrants.

Flame suit on.

Chip.

rr_ww

Sorry mate. Gas Engineer doesn't come close. yes you might blow yourself up, but these Brave men and women have to deal with a lot more. I'd much rather up their pay than squandor the money on some ridiculous scumbag minority causes.

Richard

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

A 40% increase on the surface sounds huge but doesn't mean so much if they were being under-paid in the first place.

I for one think they are worth more than £21k a year IMHO

DP.

Chip

RR. Your prob thinking all gas engineers are the guys that service your boiler. Not so.

Chip.

Scooby Dooby Blue

Most of the Dundee relief are driving around in Imprezas so they can't be that hard done-by

Paul

P1Fanatic

30k a year for being a fireman - I think that is the least they should get. When I think what I earn for sitting at my desk browsing the web all day its appalling what they get paid for risking their lives day in day out. Even if they play pool 364 days a year and that 1 day they run into a burning house to save your 2 year old child - I think that more than makes up for it.

father_jack

SDB - I would never pay 30k for "relief" in Dundee

PG

PAUL !!!!!

uncle buck

Hold on, who would have to pay for this? Me!! and.. you! Anyway it would be unfair to all the other Public Sector workers. There are some far more deserving cases - IMHO of course.

Tiggs

ppl dont earn money for risk they earn it for their potential to create more money. this is why SAS men get paid less than posh spice.

if you chose to help out in the community then be prepared for cack pay- doesnt matter if you collect the rubbish or lock up the crocks. if you want big bucks then make money dont run up and down ladders.

T

logiclee

£21k is a way under but 30k may be pushing it.

What sort of hours do they put in?

For a 40 hour week providing 24hour cover via shifts, being a trained person but not calling the shots, in a life threatning environment I would say the going rate in the private sector would be around £24-£26k.
Overtime and bonus schemes do tend to bump this up though.

Baseing the valuation against the life threatning industries I know like Mining, oilrigs etc whos environment may not be as intensly hostile but is constant while at work.

Lee

PG

OK this may be seen as a bias point of view but I will try and give you some facts.
A fully qualifed Firefighter earns £21.5k. This is £100 per week less than an average mans wage.There is no overtime and no plus payments.
It has been 25 years since the union has raised the issue of pay.
There was a pay formula agreed in '77. This served us well for many years however changes in the labour force has impacted negatively on the wage increases which it now produces.
Fire is expensive !! The damage to property, envioroment,health service and what is the cost of a life !? lets combat this by getting more bums on seats on appliances.

The priority is to protect the public and save life and property but surely the men and women who work the front line should be traeted and paid fairly.
However, despite many years of underfunding and understaffing (the govt.had a survey that proposed a 100% increase in personnel) we are praised for high standards of service by the Audit Commission.
Yup it is nice to get a pat on the back and a round of applause from them but come on !! Pay us to match the praise

As for the snooker thing.... Between community fire safety, fire inspections, visitations, fire reports, fire service exams, equipment testing, Oh and fires..to name a few I would love to sneak in a game of snooker
True we do have a game of volleyball or a gym session durring a shift but we have a duty to keep ourselves fit (yeah I know..fat fire-ies)
If anyonehas any more quesions I will do my best to answer them.
(as for owning a Scoob I was in retail managment before and had some nice share save schemes. I also took a £9k p.a drop in earnings to join the brigade)

OOPS I hope i didnt rant ?


[Edited by PG - 8/28/2002 10:00:27 PM]

PG

One thing that made me smile was the fact that when the AA advertised themselves as the 4th emergency servic people rushed to join yet they pay -in real terms- twice as much as they would if FF's were on £30k. Would you be willing to wait an hour if your home were on fire or a loved one was trapped in an RTA?

Just a thought

RON

Having been a 'retained' froefighter for nearly 5 years, I can see that the risk factor is quite big, BUT, they generally do a fouron-fouroff shift pattern, with two of the 'on' being nights, so they therefore get four whole days off, and if they get a light load on the night shifts they get more, most of the whole timers around here have two jobs on the go, not out of need for the money, but for something to do, I can only dream about earning 20k a year, and I can't imagine where the 'average' mans wage comes from, anyone who earns that amount should be grateful, yes I know that house prices are ludicrous at the moment, but, you don't see the average man out on strike for more pay do you, just think about the number of people who earn the minimum wage, I did 10 1/2 hours today and got £50, thats real life for you!!!
Ron.

camk

Obviously too many Toryboys on here, if its not scruffy council estates its having a dig at firemen looking for a decent wage. 21.5K a year wouldn't keep you tossers in Red Braces and Stripey shirts.

Chip

Just where do they get these figures for average wages from. They are rubbish.

Think they are done by the same people that tell us that
1:3 woman assaulted
1:3 kids live in poverty.
1:2 kids have taken drugs

The list goes on and on.
Just figures and nothing else.


Chip.

logiclee

PG,

Hour wise whats an average working week for a fire fighter? I know about nights and weekend/holiday cover but not the sort of hours you put in.

Lee

RON

Generally, four 12 hour shifts in eight days, that works out to 42 hours a week, not exactly horendous is it!

logiclee

Would just like to add that the interest runs a bit deeper because an electrician that works for me acts as a part time fireman for Glapwell Fire Station and often tells me about the shouts and the sort of things he gets called to.
Not trying to have a go at Firemen or say they aren't worth the money etc.

Lee

MattN

hmmm, I remember a friend coming home after having to look for a persons head after an RTA.

It's not just about fire, you try clearing up dead people of the road.

MAtt

Chip

I would have thought you would have known about this before you join.

Its like someone joining the army then saying"what ive got to shoot someone"


Chip.

[Edited by Chip - 8/28/2002 10:25:07 PM]

logiclee

If it is 42 hours a week I would expect the biggest waiting list ever if they were paying £30k.

Most hazardous area workers would have to put in around 55 to 60 hours for that sort of pay.

PG

I didnt do the review into the average wage, it was the indipendant company that the Govt brought in so lets not get hung up on that!
As for the 'paid for the potential to make money' OK it is not cold hard cash but how profitable is saving the life of a 10 month old baby girl on my very first day on the job? To some of you probably **** all but to her parents....Priceless !

Oh and it wasn't a council house either but I dare say if it were, even (as some people on here are concerned) the poverty stricken scum that stay there[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] would be happy to pay the wee bit extra in their tax to see the people involved in saving their property and the life of their child paid fairly.

There will always be people against this ....so each to their own!

Paul
(26 yr old FF in an ex-council house that needs to work another job to ensure the upkeep of it) BTW my Scooby sits on 17's not bricks !

PG

Chip, I did know. I was a retained FF too and have to say that there are very few days I go to my work thinking '**** I am working' however the trip home can be a diferrnt story. I it a very rewarding job other than the £

Lee, Shifts varry but in the main 2, 12 hr dayshifts. 2, 14hr nightshifts. then 4 off

as for the working 55 to 60 hrs.. would if I could but not allowed ! NO overtime.

Chip

Ah the government. Well we know they are really good with figures dont we.

No-one is saying that fireman dont do a good job. They do.
But so do a lot of others as well. Some of the lowest paid are council workers. Without them the country would be strewn with litter and full of disease.

Many jobs are just as dangerous as a firemans but ppl dont get near 45% rises just because of this. And anyway if a rise of this amount is justified this year what about over the last 20 years. Why no threat of strike then.

Probably some new militant union leader who knows how much extra Gordons putting into public services and just wants a cut of it.


Chip.

Chip

And you get free grub as well. Down with us they get Hotcans when on a shout.

Must say though was on an incident the other week and the fire guys kept us going with tea, coffee all night. Couldnt fault them.

Chip.

PG

Free grub ??

Sports and welfare fund (cant remember how much per week?)
So how much tea and coffee did you have Chip?

Tea = 15p
Coffee = 25p

So cough up

father_jack

Well said CamK about the braces
My old man was a fireman, albeit at an airport where they really do **** all (and get paid more) , but when the **** goes down its a serious job.
Do you want there to be MORE fires so they REALLY earn their money. Come on. 30k ain't too much to ask. Lots of people earn that for risking RSI and not for being torched

rallycol

iTrader: (4)

After being a firefighter for 18 years ,picking up £1100 a month and wanting £1500 does not seem excessive.But when you have family ,you can qualify for benefits.As for free food you've got to be joking.Shifts 2 weekends in 8 free ,1st day 9am till 6pm, 2nd day 9am till 6pm ,3rd day 6pm till 12 midnight, 4th day 12 midnight till 9am ,6pm till midnight ,5th day midnight till 9am.Oh and when your station does on average 4500 calls a year ,plus inspections,community fire safety ,training,,tons of paperwork ,testing equipment,cooking ,and keep fit,I think it can justify an increase.As for doing 2nd jobs to fill in time I've never heared so much rubbish,I'm sure most people don't work for the money ,they just do it for fun. RANT OVER Fire kit on.