Mufasa

Wednesday afternoon, travelling from Pembrokeshire to London via Bristol. It's about 16:45 dual carriageway quite a bit of traffic about. I am in the outside lane doing 70mph in a queue of traffic leaving a big gap in front of me as we all start going up this big hill overtaking slower stuff doing about 50mph.

Dark Blue Mondeo comes up behind me gets about 2 car lengths away from my bumper and flashes his headlights. There is a gap next to me I could have pulled into but to do this I would have slowed down to 50 then I would have been boxed in by the rest of the traffic overtaking in the outside lane. So thinking the Mondeo is an impatient rep type with some mates (and here come my mistake ) I give them a one finger salute in the mirror and stay where I am.

I get to the top of the hill past all the slower traffic then pull over, instead of just going past they come up close behind me again start flashing the lights sounding the horn and signalling to me to pull over. I can see there are at least 4 in the car and think "bugger this they're up for giving me a kicking, I'm staying here" and keep going. This goes on for about 5 miles, them flashing headlights, sounding horn, and trying to get me to pull over. They then overtake me and slow down to about 40 still trying to get me to pull over, I'm having none of it and pull out and keep going, thinking the safest place for me is locked in the car at 70mph. We eventually get to a roundabout where they pull up alongside and start yelling, "We are police officers! Pull over!" I can see they are in white shirts, but there is nothing else about this gang that says Police to me. There are no blue lights, no siren, and no alternate flashing headlights. So I say "No way!" and keep going. This time I call 999 on my mobile give them a description of the car and where we are and ask them if they have an unmarked car in the area trying to pull me over. They say "keep your mobile on, we'll check and call you back, but the car does not ring any bells". So off we continue for about another 15 miles when (before I get a call back) a marked up Volvo appears all lights blazing, Mondeo pulls over, Volvo lights go out for a couple of seconds then lights up again behind me. I pull over instantly, quite relieved by now!

Anyway to stop a long story getting any longer, the 4 crowd round Volvo cop (sound bloke like all the others I have met), who then takes me into his car. The others come crowding round the Volvo we have a major shouting match through the window, and they (the 4) are trying to nick me for speeding!!! They say they had to do 90mph to catch me up.

AT NO TIME DURING ANY OF THIS DID I GO OVER 75. And that was only when I was cresting the big hill looking behind me at what they were up to.

Volvo cop gave me a producer, with a tick in the box that says "other offence" the other 4 have gone off to get their stories straight.

So it looks like it'll be me against 4 cops in court in a couple of weeks, I wonder who they will believe

Muf

PS Fortunately I was not in anything quicker...

Katana

Wow! I'm so surprised that the police are like that. I thought all of them are nice people. They actually care about the community and arrest proper criminals and not just that, they genuinly want to save your life when they fine you for doing 31 in a 30 zone. [/sarcasm]

And people wonder why respect for the police are at an all time low. They can't even keep their own police station safe from burglars, let alone ours. I say fight them in court and also contact a national newspaper tommorrow. If enough people hears about this, they'll be forced to own up. Its bad enough that we have normal cops to fine us for speeding, let alone a crooked one. Do it sooner and not later...

SiCotty

If it goes to court then it will probably get thrown out. I know who I would believe if I was a magistrate, 4 police in a car trying to impress each other or a motorist on their own who calls 999 because the car behind is driving like a tw*t and claiming to be police. With Car Jackings being high profile you did the correct thing.

Si

Mufasa

I'm hoping this'll all go away....but if not I have good access to the media through work

Traffic cars are high vis for a reason, hopefully someone high up will point that out to them

Katana

Mufasa, do it, we can't have them pulling stunts like these and thinking that they can get away with it. If someone dies because of them, just think that you could've stoped them beforehand. Can you live with the guilt?

chopper

I almost didn't believe you when I read this. It is crazy that the level of traffic policing and driver paranoia has crossed the line to where we don't even know if coppers are legit or not because of their ridiculous and cunning ploys to trap motorists these days (I speak from experience of £500, 6 points as a first time ever speeding offence (after 12 clean years) on a dual carriageway in the middle of nowhere, doing 63mph in a temp 30 zone - caught from a handgun behind a bush!!).

My heart goes out to you - I hope you fight this one legally and expose them with your media links. You have my full support! Hope it never happens to me...

Mufasa

Chopper,

Pretty sure they weren't traffic cops, they were just travelling together & wanted me out the way so they could carry on at whatever speed they like. Then when I gave them the finger they thought they would teach me a lesson...

The Zohan

This sucks, Mondeo cops spound like a bunch of ***** and should know better.

Call the Sun, Mail, Express ad ask for the newsdesk, explain what happened, they just love stuff like this.

Not all plod are like this, some good and some downright bad!

Paul

NotoriousREV

If David Beckham can get off his speeding tickets getting away from paparazzi, I'm sure you can get away with it escaping from potential carjackers.

Chip

This prob ably happenened betwwen Carmarthen and Pembroke. Renowned for it. Ive seen them in a blue unmarked Volvo down there loads of times. They seem to get up close to a car asit approaches a 30 zone then nick it as soon as it passes the 30 sign. Good policing that.!

Chip.

brickboy

Best of luck with it, I can't see what evidence they have, no camera and no record of you committing an offense.

Also it was a VERY good move to ring 999 and say you were being harrassed by a vehicle with 4 people claiming to be police -- your call will be logged and will back up your story if it does go any further. They were driving in an intimidating manner, with NO evidence or insignia to say they are police.

RogerE

Mufasa,

If the police are seriously considering prosecuting you should immediately write a stiff letter of complaint to the Chief Constable of the area you were in citing the appalling behaviour of the Police Officers involved. Get all of the facts that you can. i.e. the time of the 999 call, reg number of the mondeo, the name and number of the officer in the Volvo who gave you the producer etc etc. And get it all in writing.

Also mention your concern about the number of car jackings recently and state that at no time did they correctly identify themselves as police officers by showing you their warrant cards. Just shouting “We are police” is not sufficient.

Ask for a clarification of the “alleged” offence that the police are considering bringing against you.

I doubt that they can get you for speeding as they haven’t got any evidence other than an un-calibrated speedo. Checkout http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/frames.htm for more info.

Lastly, state that you wish to make a formal complaint against the 4 officers for their intimidateting and dangerous behaviour and ask what is correct process for you to make this complaint.

Roger

BOB.T

Muf, I hope you get the ******* sacked[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Good luck

Bob

Mufasa

Chip, very close! I've seen that Volvo around Carmarthen loads of times they usually park up on the M4 roundabout obscuring vision of traffic coming around the roundabout but at least that thing has blue lights and siren etc. This happened between Carmarthen and Swansea.

The Mondeo was just a blue Mondeo.

RogerE, during the shouting match at the roadside one of the officers that had been in the back seat of the Mondeo claimed he showed his warrant card/badge. I can assure you I didn't see it.

Muf

Mice_Elf

Why were there 4 in the car?? Bit of overkill, wasn't it?

And you've got the phone call you made as evidence as well.

CrisPDuk

In my errant youth I was on first name terms with practically every traffic cop in my area, and not once has any of them been anything other than courteous. If I am honest if I had been in their shoes I would have been a locked me up and thrown away the key!
As mufasa says these probably weren't traffic coppers, just CID or uniform on their way home from a training course or some such, pumped full of testosterone after a days 'bonding'.

astraboy

<I can't see what evidence they have, no camera and no record of you committing an offense. >
they'll prolly rely on the fact its four coppers' word against one desperate criminal
Get writing and dont back down on this. Contact the papers too.
Hope it works out okay.
astraboy.
P.S. I AM on first name terms with the bloke behind the desk at my local nick. He doesent even bother to check me documents any more cos he knows when they expire

LG John

Two things:

1 There mondeo speedo would probably not have been calibrated recently if at all and could be way out so they have zero evidence of your speed.

2 If you actually were speeding (I respect you say you didn't) and they actually were doing 90mph then they were braking the law as I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong but emergency vehicles (police, fire, ambulance, etc) are not allowed to drive outwith normal traffic laws (i.e. speed, jump red lights, etc) unless they have the blue lights and siren on AND they can prove it was an emergency situation.

Raise these points with them before it gets to court and you might never have to go there. Good luck with the b@st@rds

Dracoro

Police can 'break the traffic' laws (speeding, traffic lights etc.) if they need to without the blues'n'two's. If they do so then they'd have to justify it to their superiors (call out to a burlgary or a known police car baiter etc. where they don't want the crims to know they're coming) should they set off a gatso etc.

The long & short is that they don't have to use the lights/sirens but in most situations it is in their interest to do so (i.e. they want people to get out the way etc.)

LG John

I stand corrected. But can they verify that their speedo was accurately showing 90mph and that your vehicle appeared to be travelling the same speed?

ptholt

Just to add a little (perhaps) cold water, a friend on a bike had a similar issue. Story goes like this :-

police take biker to court for speeding, they were two up in an unmarked town car (so no video, calibrated speedo's nothing).

Policemen both state how long they have been officers for, and what the speedo on the car was showing and that in there experience the rider was 'well in excess of the speed limit'.

Found guilty, three points.

no proof, no equipment just there word against his.

This was quite some time ago though, heres hoping its changed....

BuRR

Yes - as long as the vehicle that the officers used was then driven along a measured mile at a static 30mph with a police traffic car (with calibrated speedo behind) measuring the speed at a constant distance, as well as the time taken to travel the mile.

I've done it in the past.

Now I'm in no way saying its failsafe, but my case went to court and the driver was found guilty.

just so you know what happened, I (and a colleague) was in an Astra marked car, and a Vectra flew past me at a speed I would guess at approximately 80mph - the road limit was 40mph. I turned on the blues, and set off after him, got behind him eventually, and flashed him to pull over, as my intention at that time was to breathalyse him - it was about 3am. He failed to stop, and his speed averaged at 75mph (on a 40) This went on for about 4-5 miles, when I was eventually caught up by the traffic car I had requested to stop the car. He blew the breathalyser, and crept under and got away with a warning - I would guess he was more or less on the limit. Apparently he'd just left Majestyks nightclub in Leeds and was on his way home to York.

I immediately got the traffic car to follow me on the measured mile on the M62 (between J29 & J30 eastbound) at 30mph to calibrate my speedo.

We went to court, and he was disqualified (he already had 9 points) on my evidence.

So now you can all hate me. I've got thick skin

[Edited by BuRR - 6/25/2002 10:15:33 PM]

AlanS

Take them to court. I disputed a SP30 in court and everyone though I had nochance as it was coppers word against mine but the 3 magistrates had to be "sure beyound reasonable doubt" and I can assure you that there is alot of reasonable doubt in your case.

How experienced was the officer, is he in traffic division?
Did you pass him doing inexcess of the limit? or did he catch you up? Therefore what speed was he doing in the first place?
I think the fact that he was so close to your **** with headlights flashing is reason enough to increase your speed through "provocation" etc etc

Mufasa

Thanks for the replies, just to confirm this was in a queue of traffic on busy dual carriageway, not belting through the middle of town at more than double the speed limit!

The Mondeo and Volvo were not in convoy long enough to calibrate the Mondeo speedo, the Mondeo moved over as soon as the Volvo got up behind them. After the shouting match the then Mondeo left 1st, the Volvo and I moved off some 10 minutes later (Volvo cop wanted to make sure I had calmed down ok).

Muf

Katana

You are now my new hero. I want in...

Diablo

Mufasa,

Sounds like you will be ok.

If you only got a producer (pretty standard practice) then I doubt much will happen. Reads like the traffic cop was pretty much on your side.

Like everything in life you get plenty of to%%ers in uniform, or out of in this case. The standard of driving I see up here from non traffic police is fukcing outrageous sometimes.

As far as I know you can only be charged with a motoring offence by a policeman in full uniform. In Scotland, there has to be two of them.

Can't see it going to court and if it does I can't see you getting done.

Might be worth writing to the chief constable of the force in question, detailing all the facts (being honest and apologetic about your one fingered salute)noting your concerns and asking for confirmation of whether or not they intend to prosecute you, and if so, for what alleged offence

D

02WrXsTi

ure so lucky u didnt get arrested!!!!!

Mufasa

What for? Sticking my finger up at them?

BuRR

The speedo can be calibrated after the event. As soon as is practicable.

BuRR

Although a vehicle has to be stopped by an officer in uniform, the requesting of the documents can be made by any police officer, whether in uniform or not.