Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Hey all.

For you experts or user advise, I'm keen to know what the best boiler options are?

I currently have a Baxi 130 HE but it's now getting like triggers broom, well not really, but I do feel it's old tech and it's probably very inefficient.

Around 8 months ago the boiler gave up the ghost, a little online reports showed it could be umpteen things, but long story short I changed the combustion door seals, changed the burner and gave it a spruce and it's run like new since. However the last few days it has started with another intermittent fault which I'm tempted to fix with the basic process of elimination, however I might be better biting the bullet with a new one.

What can you recommend people?

House has 12 radiators.

Thanks,
Robert.

johned

What is the new fault.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Had similar situation a couple of years ago with an 8yr old Baxi playing up, previous one did about 20yrs and was in the house when we moved in.

I kept the original going for a couple of winters and the 2nd one started playing up just after it had run out of warranty and again I replaced a couple of parts on it to keep it going but the 3rd time it packed in was the straw that broke the camels back.

Replaced it with a Worchester (sp) about 2 years ago, as recommended on a thread on here, cost just over £2k but we did have it moved from the kitchen up into the airing cupboard and also had some electrical work done in the cellar, neighbours a builder and he got a couple of the blokes he works with to give us a good deal.

New boiler is quite fancy and does all sorts of clever stuff... only thing I don't like about it is it can take about 15 seconds of running the tap in the kitchen to get hot water, where as the Baxi was like 3 seconds and you get your hot water, obviously as there is no tank anymore... pleased we don't have a water meter.

Mrs says it's better and the bills have gone down... it's certainly a lot quieter and the house is warm all the time without the constant roar that we had from the Baxi and of course we're not constantly heating water, so that's good, and I can watch the tv in the kitchen in peace.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Previous code was LE from memory which I believe may have been down to a perished combustion chamber door seal, but none the less the burner looked a little crappy so during the investigation I inadvertently damaged the gauze on the top of the burner. I replaced the burner unit and the boiler has been good until recently. I also recall having to helicoil one thread on the chamber door as the old bolts had corroded - I'll recheck this when I take the front cover off the boiler this week!


Anyway the current fault is L0 - Boiler is probably 10-15 years old now!


Link below - search key work L0
https://www.baxi.co.uk/-/media/Websi...nual.pdf?la=en






Cheers Ditch, I was looking at Worcester boiler last night, seems they to be one of the best - but so much choice!

When I bought the house we are in now, which was a bungalow 1992-1994, the upper floor where the boiler sits has several plasterboard cut-outs where different vents/exhausts have been which would suggest the house has had several boilers to date from when the house was converted in 94. I would imagine that the boiler originally was moved which was probably spec'd to support 6 radiators and 1 bathroom, but this has now doubled hence why I believe that there has been at least one or two replacement boilers since - begs the question why!


I have pretty much replaced all the radiators in the house and subsequently most of the pipework, there is just 4 radiators to replace, but they look to be relatively modern hence why I haven't changed them just yet.



I'm happy to pay £2K for the right boiler, and as I am also fitting a multi-fuel stove in the near future there should be less of a need to use the bloody boiler anyway!


I think I'll just try my hand at fixing it one more time using the process of elimination from the manual above just to get me through the winter months - currently it trips out 2-3 times per day!


Robert.

gazzawrx

iTrader: (11)

Sometimes youre better to try and keep an older boiler going than replacing for a new one. All the new electronic boilers are ****e and tbh youre lucky if you get 10 years out of them. The older hydraulic boilers were a lot better made and durable and tend to last at least twice as long as the new ones

dpb

Way of the world isn't it ?

Unless you pay big style

fez the plodder

I'd go for either a Worcester Bosch or and ideal pro logic boiler if it's a combi.....

There's lots of plumbers/heating engineers with horror story's about this boiler and that boiler...
I'd just match it to your budget and your incoming cold water flow rate to the boilers hot water out put and just make sure it's fitted correctly so that you get your full warranty i.e. Mag clean scale master and flush the heating if necessary and x100 (inhibitors), that way any issues the manufacturer sorts it.....

Boilers have gone the same way as cars with electronics and sensors ect, the old boilers had cast iron heat exchangers that took a lot more stick than the newer ones, but in my experience if the heating system waters clean it'll always last longer.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I've done that a couple of times now and it's ended up being a right ball ache, no heating for days at a time (usually when the weather is at it's worse) diagnosing, trips back and forth to the plumbers merchants, waiting for parts etc... wish I'd never bothered and just got a bloke in.

Unfortunately in my experience, once one thing goes wrong it seems to start the snowball effect, then it's just one thing after another as most of the parts reach the end of their serviceable lifespan at around the same sort of time, give or take 6 months a year or so.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Thanks everyone.


One thing I should make clear is I'm no boiler expert, and tinkering around with a boiler is the same as tinkering with my car - I'm no mechanic either!


I'm happy to throw a little money at the turd to see if it can be polished... but knowing where to stop is the problem as Ditch suggested previously... £200 here £200 there soon stacks up!


I've dropped the CH temp down from 72 degrees to 65, and the HW temp from 55 degrees to 45 wondering if this will make a difference.


I also recall that I locked the gas cupboard outside the house last week as it was flapping around in high winds, I assumed someone checked my meter and didn't close it correctly, but I am now thinking the two could be related so has the gas valve been altered.... cynical I know!


I'll check through the manual and see if I can upgrade/replace some parts over the coming weeks that are relatively cheap, such as PCB, Fan, Valve etc, and if this doesn't work I'll price up a new boiler inc installation, I'm not attempting this!


Also - As I have changed 75% of the radiators in the last 18 months, I know that there will be next to no cleaner in the CH.... I'll look at this too


Robert.

Dr Hu

These new combi boilers seem carp - my old boiler - fitted in the house from new in 1988 is still ultra reliable - think it's a glowworm or potterton - can't remember as I never have to look at it - it's never had anything go wrong with it, it's never serviced, it just keeps going - the only thing ever replaced was the pump in the airing cupboard, but can't blame the boiler for that....

These modern boilers really don't seem built to last.... you just hear horror story after horror story about them....

You watch it break down next week now - hahahahaha!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Think I've had enough winters back in the day where I or a family member was left freezing cold mid-winter and couldn't find a plumber...so I leant a few things (that, and I did work on the odd domestic boiler in my old HVAC job).

Reliability depends on the era. I think the newest latest ones from the past four years or so are pretty darn good now compared to the boilers from the early-mid 2000 era which were mostly terrible. When all the manufacturers clamoured to conform to new efficiency regs without any idea on how to make them reliable or serviceable.

It's the complexity that fails them, along with idiotic layouts (Take older Kestons as an example...Prone to leaking and they placed the PCB under where it leaks...have a Google, they were probably the worst boiler out there at one point before Ideal took over).

But general problems are common across the board:

Fans; Not simple on/off units now; variable speed DC brushless motors with their own internal circuit board, so expensive and complex.

Diverter valves; Always prone to sticking or failing. But if buried could make a 10min job to swap a 5 hour job. The dual pump systems used on some combis didn't need a diverter, so was far more reliable. The bigger Worcs Bosch had these, don't know about now.

PCB; Should be located away from areas where water can leak or collect, sealed in its own box, vertically mounted etc. Worcs-Bosch adopted this decades ago. Our old Glow-worn had it fitted horizontally directly beneath the leaky condensate drain! Dodgy spark electrodes can fry the PCB if its components are poor quality; Like a dodgy coil pack on a car engine can fry a ECU; same happens with boilers.

Flow switches; always prone to sticking or failing, if buried, like on a old Ravenheat you'll be there for hours.

Pumps; generally reliable e, but new variable speed energy saving pumps now mean more complexity and something else to go wrong.

Heat exchangers; Condensate is corrosive, so material quality is important. Early condensing boilers used poor quality metals so corroded readily. Also being efficient designs they have smaller passages, so will block up readily if the heating system is sludged up( which nearly all are as many plumbers never bothered adding inhibitors after draining down). Remove all old radiators take out the end plugs and flush them in the garden with a hose in every direction possible you'll be amazed at the crap that just keeps comming out (mainly downstairs rads) Power Flushing does not always work. And fit a inline filter unit.

Secondary/Hot water heat exchanger: It's a modine, like a oil cooler on most cars. Also prone to blockages. Scale in hard water areas and sludge from dirty heating systems. As above make sure the system is cleaned BEFORE fitting a new boiler.


As I've mentioned before I prefer Worcester Bosch; not because they are one of the more reliable brands, but because they have s good warranty and a good service network to call up and get it fixed pronto should it ever fail. Although I've only had to call them out three times in 9 years!

urban

iTrader: (1)

My next door neighbour had their old oil fired boiler replaced with a Worcester Bosch about 3 years ago, they were amazed at how much less oil they were using.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, Mrs reckons the gas and electric bills have both gone down a fair bit since the new boiler went in, she said she'd have a look and see exactly but reckons about £40 a month less... no immersion and intelligent more efficient boiler equals best part of 500 quid a year saving... means the boiler's about paid for itself after this year.

fez the plodder

Depending on what your new boiler is replacing i.e. If it's not a condensing boiler or has a pilot light, I'd say your gonna save a 3rd on your gas with a correctly sized boiler ��

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Since doing this "I've dropped the CH temp down from 72 degrees to 65, and the HW temp from 55 degrees to 45 wondering if this will make a difference."

The boiler hadn't tripped out, however it has been milder the last few nights so in terms of CH it hasn't had much demand. I'll monitor it, well as much as I suppose you can (not pulling a stool up into the airing cupboard and waiting!).

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Update:

Came home from work to the everyone in the house complaining they were cold, yup you guessed it the boiler was off!

Having taken the cover off and looked at it, I think I’ve found two issues.

a) the CH water pressure was slightly lower than usual, not a lot but just slight off centre of the green zone, so topped this up slightly - I’ll come back to this in a moment

b) when I managed to fire the boiler up it was relatively smooth, but after switching the CH off and on several times after 10 minutes on -off I realised that it is not Igniting consistently each time. When it’s at it’s worse it’s clicks on, fan seems to purge, Pump seems to purge, and gas flows, then a few seconds later it gets the ignition it requires but as it’s very late it booms in the combustion chamber. So it would seem the spark is often too late, when can lead to it blowing itself out which would stack up with L0 code I’ve been getting.

Now back to “a” above, once running for a good half hour I notice the water pressure was high, into the red high! So bled a rad to get back to just over half way as the temp was at 65 degrees.

Why would the spark be late, but not consistently? Why has the pressure climbed?

Thanks in advance
Robert

imprezagaz

iTrader: (2)

Pressure vessel might want recharging or replacing. For the pressure rising.

Any signs of ignition wires arcing?

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Hi Gaz,


I've ordered a replacement main PCB and Temp gauge last night just to see if this helps. I couldn't see anything in the way of any short circuits but need to re-read the wiring diagram again to see if I have missed anything.


When I have had an episode of the pressure being too high in a previous house, I recall the boiler dumping the water which I think was via the condensing waste pipe. Bob the builder (not this bob) plumbed this one in I think - The boiler I'm looking at in my house now has not attempted to dump and the needle was clearly in the red by quite a few degrees. It's worth stating that the boiler case has British Gas sticker on it, so it looks like it was once looked after....


Hopeful that the PCB will arrive in the few days so I can rule this out.


I ran the boiler last night with the cover off which I am sure is a , but it ran all night without issues, albeit I didn't stay awake to listen for any unusual activity, and when I got up this morning the house was warm and the pressure gauge was happily sat in the middle albeit the boiler was off as the thermostat was satisfied.


Cheers,
Robert.

imprezagaz

iTrader: (2)

The pressure relief valve lets out the water when the pressure gets too high. Normally about 3 bar. If the pressure is getting too high then the expansion vessel isn’t doing its job. They don’t all take to recharging but worth a go. Easy to do with a foot pump with a gauge on. There will be somewhere on the internet that says what your boiler vessel pressure should be 👍

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

I’ve still got my 14 year Baxi old boiler, and it’s now working like a dream (changed several parts), but I’ve since located a company that will install a new Bosch Worcester for £1550 with 7 yrs warrantee.

Thoughts?

Should I just get on with it, or hope I get another good few years out my current one?

njkmrs

Well the price is right and £1550 for 7 yrs piece of mind is cheaper than paying for BG or Homeswerve covering it on an annual service contract..
I would go for the new one.
But only if your Baxi packs in again.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Cheers,

I’ve stuck with the Baxi and ordered a few other serviceable parts, and popped £2k to one side for the moment.

The boiler has been faultless since (touching wood) so I’m inclined to hope the main issues are resolved.

Someone recently said that all boilers are temperamental, new or old, so expect call outs regardless of age... I believe this to be untrue for the best boilers with a good installation and annual service, but I do understand the point made. Even new cars sometimes go wrong..... cough 2.5 pistons, head gaskets.....

Robert