Explosion at the MEN arena.
23 May 2017, 10:21 PM
#61
Beyond cowardly. But they all are in reality.Every single terrorist. Always hiding, always blowing up the innocent. Even 8 year olds.
I am so sorry for everyone who has suffered such tragic loss
And no,there isn't a place in paradise for you. You are going straight to hell
I am so sorry for everyone who has suffered such tragic loss
And no,there isn't a place in paradise for you. You are going straight to hell
Last edited by lozgti1; 23 May 2017 at 10:23 PM.
23 May 2017, 10:23 PM
#62
Well, given the latest opinion poles, support for labour and it's open door policy is on the rise. So trying to keep these people out will just become harder and harder.
It was also Labour who took us to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, while letting thousands of them come here without checks that has led to all this.
Yet all people will see at the ballot box is promises for free University education (which is a choice not a right), 4 extra bank holidays a year, Pay rises for all public sector workers, and Nationalising all our energy and railways, so we can hand over power to all our essential needs over to the Unions, who will be striking every year unless they gat an unstainable 6% pay rise every year. Ah, the good old days of striking for workers rights and bringing the country to it's knees.
Britain. Not Great Britain anymore
It was also Labour who took us to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, while letting thousands of them come here without checks that has led to all this.
Yet all people will see at the ballot box is promises for free University education (which is a choice not a right), 4 extra bank holidays a year, Pay rises for all public sector workers, and Nationalising all our energy and railways, so we can hand over power to all our essential needs over to the Unions, who will be striking every year unless they gat an unstainable 6% pay rise every year. Ah, the good old days of striking for workers rights and bringing the country to it's knees.
Britain. Not Great Britain anymore
23 May 2017, 10:24 PM
#63
Tell you what... some of you lot are almost as bonkers as the person that did this... not too sure if there's much difference between you really, judging by some of your comments and proposed solutions.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
23 May 2017, 10:35 PM
#64
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Tell you what... some of you lot are almost as bonkers as the person that did this... not too sure if there's much difference between you really, judging by some of your comments and proposed solutions.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
23 May 2017, 10:36 PM
#65
Tell you what... some of you lot are almost as bonkers as the person that did this... not too sure if there's much difference between you really, judging by some of your comments and proposed solutions.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
RIP indeed.
Last edited by markjmd; 23 May 2017 at 10:42 PM.
23 May 2017, 11:01 PM
#66
The deluded scum-bag who perpetrated last night's atrocity would in all likelihood never have been born at all, or would have grown up an orphan to parents locked up in one of Gadhafi's secret prisons (aka torture camps), if his family hadn't been granted refuge by the British people 25 years or so ago. For you to then come on here and accuse that people of "reaping what they sow" is so far beyond insulting it pretty much defies all description. You sir, are the very definition of the barrel scraped so low, its very bottom is holed.
RIP indeed.
RIP indeed.
Love will not win I'm afraid, it has had no impact at all and the frequency of attacks just increase.
Solutions, however far fetched or flawed are a move in the right direction rather than the solution of **** all and the acceptance of more bloodshed.
24 hours of worrying for me as the wife travels into London.
23 May 2017, 11:07 PM
#67
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Indeed. His parents are back in Libya as I understand and IS have claimed responsibility. Would the parents be back in their homeland without interference from the west?.
Love will not win I'm afraid, it has had no impact at all and the frequency of attacks just increase.
Solutions, however far fetched or flawed are a move in the right direction rather than the solution of **** all and the acceptance of more bloodshed.
24 hours of worrying for me as the wife travels into London.
Love will not win I'm afraid, it has had no impact at all and the frequency of attacks just increase.
Solutions, however far fetched or flawed are a move in the right direction rather than the solution of **** all and the acceptance of more bloodshed.
24 hours of worrying for me as the wife travels into London.
You're in far more danger crossing the road, or driving to the shops.
Get real
btw, what 'solutions are a step in the right direction'?
As someone said this probably isn't the time or place for this.
An 8 year old! Truly heartbreaking.
Let's just all agree that these people are devils, and whenever and wherever they are we should be going after them with all possible means.
Last edited by Martin2005; 23 May 2017 at 11:21 PM.
23 May 2017, 11:55 PM
#68
It's sickening stuff, the news was just starting to filter through last night, when I was heading to bed, and knowing that it was going to be mainly young girls at this concert I was dreading what was going to be the out come.
Having young kids myself, I can't even imagine what lies ahead in the future for them or what type of world I have brought them in to..
We can all speculate on where and what caused all this, and speculate on what will fix it.. but unfortunately I can't see this being fixable and that's the troubling part. Attempts to get on top of it just seems to drive more towards it, and the more incidents there is and the more innocent lives that are lost the more the hatred and divide will become which is what ISIS want and are aiming for.. I don't see a way out of this.
RIP to all those kids and adults. Life isn't fair sometimes.
Having young kids myself, I can't even imagine what lies ahead in the future for them or what type of world I have brought them in to..
We can all speculate on where and what caused all this, and speculate on what will fix it.. but unfortunately I can't see this being fixable and that's the troubling part. Attempts to get on top of it just seems to drive more towards it, and the more incidents there is and the more innocent lives that are lost the more the hatred and divide will become which is what ISIS want and are aiming for.. I don't see a way out of this.
RIP to all those kids and adults. Life isn't fair sometimes.
24 May 2017, 08:39 AM
#70
And will no doubt be training them in how to use them... this sort of stuff is what I'm talking about... we've done it over and over again all over the world for decades now... when will these people learn... never I suspect... seems to be more important making sure arms companies stay in business.
24 May 2017, 08:50 AM
#71
The deluded scum-bag who perpetrated last night's atrocity would in all likelihood never have been born at all, or would have grown up an orphan to parents locked up in one of Gadhafi's secret prisons (aka torture camps), if his family hadn't been granted refuge by the British people 25 years or so ago. For you to then come on here and accuse that people of "reaping what they sow" is so far beyond insulting it pretty much defies all description. You sir, are the exact definition of the barrel scraped so low, its very bottom is holed.
RIP indeed.
RIP indeed.
Again RIP and condolences to all... on what is a very sad situation.
24 May 2017, 08:58 AM
#72
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How do we stop this? It's hard because of open door policy.
However .........
Nigel Farrage said something rather sensible over the last few years. I a known person who is attending a radical Muslim mosk, who then takes a flight to a known terrorist training camp country, should (A) not be stopped from leaving, and (B) have their passport revoked and not allowed to ever return to the UK.
The guy who killed 22 people fitted into this category.
When he said it, he was pounced on. Called a racist among other things. All in the name of being PC. They stated that is would be against his human right to not allow him back into the country. He should be allowed in and monitored.
Just think if we'd revoked his passport when he went abroad to a training camp? 22 young people would now still be alive and well.
But by agreeing with this, you like me, must be a big fat racist. Makes your blood boil where the human rights of a potential terrorist is put above the human rights of his/her potential victims
However .........
Nigel Farrage said something rather sensible over the last few years. I a known person who is attending a radical Muslim mosk, who then takes a flight to a known terrorist training camp country, should (A) not be stopped from leaving, and (B) have their passport revoked and not allowed to ever return to the UK.
The guy who killed 22 people fitted into this category.
When he said it, he was pounced on. Called a racist among other things. All in the name of being PC. They stated that is would be against his human right to not allow him back into the country. He should be allowed in and monitored.
Just think if we'd revoked his passport when he went abroad to a training camp? 22 young people would now still be alive and well.
But by agreeing with this, you like me, must be a big fat racist. Makes your blood boil where the human rights of a potential terrorist is put above the human rights of his/her potential victims
24 May 2017, 09:23 AM
#73
Don't be an idiot all your life mate... I was talking about the cause of things like this... which goes back much further than 25yrs who armed Gadhafi and trained his people? doesn't matter where the perpetrator comes from, kids are dying all over the world on a daily basis because of greed the only difference here is now it's happening on UK soil.
Condolescences my ****.
Last edited by markjmd; 24 May 2017 at 09:24 AM.
24 May 2017, 10:09 AM
#74
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I can't really be the only one that feels this thread has turned more than a little distasteful/disrespectful can I?
Even real politicans have managed to put aside there differences and stand together in solidarity with those affected by what happened on Monday, yet you lot are still going.
Even real politicans have managed to put aside there differences and stand together in solidarity with those affected by what happened on Monday, yet you lot are still going.
24 May 2017, 10:16 AM
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24 May 2017, 10:26 AM
#76
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I can't really be the only one that feels this thread has turned more than a little distasteful/disrespectful can I?
Even real politicans have managed to put aside there differences and stand together in solidarity with those affected by what happened on Monday, yet you lot are still going.
Even real politicans have managed to put aside there differences and stand together in solidarity with those affected by what happened on Monday, yet you lot are still going.
Maybe it's just that people are a little bit annoyed that these things keep happening, yet nothing seems to be done about it, other than lighting a candle and changing your Facebook profile pic to include a heart on it.
Saying we won't let terrorists win, yet doing nothing to stop them is a bit hypocritical. The liberals who want all humanity to be equal, are the ones who shout loudest, mainly shouting `Racist` to anyone with a different view to them. So they get heard and get their way.
Ban suspected terrorist from Britain. Simple. How many more need to die for government to tell the liberals to P1ssoff and take action? Serious action.
24 May 2017, 10:31 AM
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Maybe it's just that people are a little bit annoyed that these things keep happening, yet nothing seems to be done about it, other than lighting a candle and changing your Facebook profile pic to include a heart on it.
Saying we won't let terrorists win, yet doing nothing to stop them is a bit hypocritical. The liberals who want all humanity to be equal, are the ones who shout loudest, mainly shouting `Racist` to anyone with a different view to them. So they get heard and get their way.
Ban suspected terrorist from Britain. Simple. How many more need to die for government to tell the liberals to P1ssoff and take action? Serious action.
Saying we won't let terrorists win, yet doing nothing to stop them is a bit hypocritical. The liberals who want all humanity to be equal, are the ones who shout loudest, mainly shouting `Racist` to anyone with a different view to them. So they get heard and get their way.
Ban suspected terrorist from Britain. Simple. How many more need to die for government to tell the liberals to P1ssoff and take action? Serious action.
24 May 2017, 11:04 AM
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I`m sick of hearing "on the radar". If a peado is using the internet to satisfy his needs he can be caught, charged and dealt with. Why wait for someone "on the radar" to murder innocent people? Deport them if the`re immigrants or jail them if they`re British.
24 May 2017, 12:14 PM
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I know this all a bit emotive because it's involves terrorists and kids but lets try and atleast be basically rational.
24 May 2017, 01:02 PM
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Not at all. if government took action years ago over this, people wouldn't be p1ssed off.
But you're probably right. Being angry over deaths caused by a terrorist gets me nowhere. I'm now off to light a candle and change my facebook picture. That'll show'em !!!!
Terrorist will give up now.
24 May 2017, 01:03 PM
#84
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Tell you what... some of you lot are almost as bonkers as the person that did this... not too sure if there's much difference between you really, judging by some of your comments and proposed solutions.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
The only way to end all of this is to stop interfering in other countries, USA starts all the cr4p and Europe pays the price.
Most seem to struggle with the concept of reaping what we sow.
RIP to the innocent victims and condolences to their families.
And will no doubt be training them in how to use them... this sort of stuff is what I'm talking about... we've done it over and over again all over the world for decades now... when will these people learn... never I suspect... seems to be more important making sure arms companies stay in business.
Don't be an idiot all your life mate... I was talking about the cause of things like this... which goes back much further than 25yrs who armed Gadhafi and trained his people? doesn't matter where the perpetrator comes from, kids are dying all over the world on a daily basis because of greed the only difference here is now it's happening on UK soil.
Again RIP and condolences to all... on what is a very sad situation.
Again RIP and condolences to all... on what is a very sad situation.
This is not about religion. Its not about culture. Its about aggrievement.
Aggrievemet arising from years and years of interference by the UK and its Allies on foreign soil. Because at best, "we" think we know better, and at worst, we want something they have.
Aggrievement because their children have died becasue of "our" interference
ISIS are capitalising on this big time.
Unless we've lived in Lbya under Gadaffi we don't have a right to comment on how good or bad he was. Same goes for Iraq. and anywhere else.
The whole "he was a bad man and had to be taken down" argument is just crap. The Saudi's have a worse human rights record but, hey, thats ok.
Its clearly lost on some people that "ISIS" whatever that actually is has flourished since "we" helped take Gadaffi down. Same for Iraq post Saddam Hussain. Some interesting views here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7309821.html
And here
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/23/...-invaded-iraq/
We all need to ask ourselves where has the hate come from.
24 May 2017, 01:09 PM
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Ditchy, we've had our differences of opinion in the past, and I've called you out for talking pish on the odd occasion but for once I am right with you on this.
This is not about religion. Its not about culture. Its about aggrievement.
Aggrievemet arising from years and years of interference by the UK and its Allies on foreign soil. Because at best, "we" think we know better, and at worst, we want something they have.
Aggrievement because their children have died becasue of "our" interference
ISIS are capitalising on this big time.
Unless we've lived in Lbya under Gadaffi we don't have a right to comment on how good or bad he was. Same goes for Iraq. and anywhere else.
The whole "he was a bad man and had to be taken down" argument is just crap. The Saudi's have a worse human rights record but, hey, thats ok.
Its clearly lost on some people that "ISIS" whatever that actually is has flourished since "we" helped take Gadaffi down. Same for Iraq post Saddam Hussain. Some interesting views here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7309821.html
And here
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/23/...-invaded-iraq/
We all need to ask ourselves where has the hate come from.
This is not about religion. Its not about culture. Its about aggrievement.
Aggrievemet arising from years and years of interference by the UK and its Allies on foreign soil. Because at best, "we" think we know better, and at worst, we want something they have.
Aggrievement because their children have died becasue of "our" interference
ISIS are capitalising on this big time.
Unless we've lived in Lbya under Gadaffi we don't have a right to comment on how good or bad he was. Same goes for Iraq. and anywhere else.
The whole "he was a bad man and had to be taken down" argument is just crap. The Saudi's have a worse human rights record but, hey, thats ok.
Its clearly lost on some people that "ISIS" whatever that actually is has flourished since "we" helped take Gadaffi down. Same for Iraq post Saddam Hussain. Some interesting views here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7309821.html
And here
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/23/...-invaded-iraq/
We all need to ask ourselves where has the hate come from.
24 May 2017, 01:15 PM
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Posted by a mate (who's a Baptist Pastor):
For the families of the 22 people killed and many of those hurt in the Manchester bombing, life will never be the same. For the rest of us, we must sympathise, help, but resist the temptation to act as if the world has suddenly changed. We must carry on doing what is right. The bomber was the child of refugees, and we must still be a place of refuge. This was another attack on western arts, and we must continue to enjoy art. This was another IS attack on young women, and we families must not respond by imprisoning them in their homes. Life involves risk, and we are more aware of it now, but we must be brave or we lose something important about who we are, distinct from those who hold this Saudi-style Salafi philosophy.
Lastly and most importantly, I firmly believe that you cannot defeat a belief system with guns and bombs. It must be studied, understood, and refuted. I am appalled at the religious ignorance we flaunt in this country. Islamic theology is very varied and must stop being generalised in the way it's taught. A tiny minority of British Muslims hold Salafi Jihadist views, but Saudi Salafi mosques and clerics are still given planning permission and visas, and any criticism of their views and their basis is lazy labelled "intolerant" or "racist". The necessary engagement requires another, greater form of bravery; to become a target of violence by critiquing the views of violent people, and to become a target of the religiously ignorant left by pointing out that to be truly tolerant society, we must be able to tolerate debate, to to tolerate mutual criticism, and to protect people who change their views.
John Orchard.
For the families of the 22 people killed and many of those hurt in the Manchester bombing, life will never be the same. For the rest of us, we must sympathise, help, but resist the temptation to act as if the world has suddenly changed. We must carry on doing what is right. The bomber was the child of refugees, and we must still be a place of refuge. This was another attack on western arts, and we must continue to enjoy art. This was another IS attack on young women, and we families must not respond by imprisoning them in their homes. Life involves risk, and we are more aware of it now, but we must be brave or we lose something important about who we are, distinct from those who hold this Saudi-style Salafi philosophy.
Lastly and most importantly, I firmly believe that you cannot defeat a belief system with guns and bombs. It must be studied, understood, and refuted. I am appalled at the religious ignorance we flaunt in this country. Islamic theology is very varied and must stop being generalised in the way it's taught. A tiny minority of British Muslims hold Salafi Jihadist views, but Saudi Salafi mosques and clerics are still given planning permission and visas, and any criticism of their views and their basis is lazy labelled "intolerant" or "racist". The necessary engagement requires another, greater form of bravery; to become a target of violence by critiquing the views of violent people, and to become a target of the religiously ignorant left by pointing out that to be truly tolerant society, we must be able to tolerate debate, to to tolerate mutual criticism, and to protect people who change their views.
John Orchard.
24 May 2017, 01:27 PM
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Posted by a mate (who's a Baptist Pastor):
For the families of the 22 people killed and many of those hurt in the Manchester bombing, life will never be the same. For the rest of us, we must sympathise, help, but resist the temptation to act as if the world has suddenly changed. We must carry on doing what is right. The bomber was the child of refugees, and we must still be a place of refuge. This was another attack on western arts, and we must continue to enjoy art. This was another IS attack on young women, and we families must not respond by imprisoning them in their homes. Life involves risk, and we are more aware of it now, but we must be brave or we lose something important about who we are, distinct from those who hold this Saudi-style Salafi philosophy.
Lastly and most importantly, I firmly believe that you cannot defeat a belief system with guns and bombs. It must be studied, understood, and refuted. I am appalled at the religious ignorance we flaunt in this country. Islamic theology is very varied and must stop being generalised in the way it's taught. A tiny minority of British Muslims hold Salafi Jihadist views, but Saudi Salafi mosques and clerics are still given planning permission and visas, and any criticism of their views and their basis is lazy labelled "intolerant" or "racist". The necessary engagement requires another, greater form of bravery; to become a target of violence by critiquing the views of violent people, and to become a target of the religiously ignorant left by pointing out that to be truly tolerant society, we must be able to tolerate debate, to to tolerate mutual criticism, and to protect people who change their views.
John Orchard.
For the families of the 22 people killed and many of those hurt in the Manchester bombing, life will never be the same. For the rest of us, we must sympathise, help, but resist the temptation to act as if the world has suddenly changed. We must carry on doing what is right. The bomber was the child of refugees, and we must still be a place of refuge. This was another attack on western arts, and we must continue to enjoy art. This was another IS attack on young women, and we families must not respond by imprisoning them in their homes. Life involves risk, and we are more aware of it now, but we must be brave or we lose something important about who we are, distinct from those who hold this Saudi-style Salafi philosophy.
Lastly and most importantly, I firmly believe that you cannot defeat a belief system with guns and bombs. It must be studied, understood, and refuted. I am appalled at the religious ignorance we flaunt in this country. Islamic theology is very varied and must stop being generalised in the way it's taught. A tiny minority of British Muslims hold Salafi Jihadist views, but Saudi Salafi mosques and clerics are still given planning permission and visas, and any criticism of their views and their basis is lazy labelled "intolerant" or "racist". The necessary engagement requires another, greater form of bravery; to become a target of violence by critiquing the views of violent people, and to become a target of the religiously ignorant left by pointing out that to be truly tolerant society, we must be able to tolerate debate, to to tolerate mutual criticism, and to protect people who change their views.
John Orchard.
The problem is their belief is as unshakeable as yours, their sense of purpose is as strong as yours, and their sense of righteousness is as strong as yours.
Could you be persuaded to change your beliefs?
btw - I'm only making an equivolence in terms of belief, not deeds obviously
24 May 2017, 01:30 PM
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Not at all. if government took action years ago over this, people wouldn't be p1ssed off.
But you're probably right. Being angry over deaths caused by a terrorist gets me nowhere. I'm now off to light a candle and change my facebook picture. That'll show'em !!!!
Terrorist will give up now.
But you're probably right. Being angry over deaths caused by a terrorist gets me nowhere. I'm now off to light a candle and change my facebook picture. That'll show'em !!!!
Terrorist will give up now.
24 May 2017, 01:42 PM
#90
Ditchy, we've had our differences of opinion in the past, and I've called you out for talking pish on the odd occasion but for once I am right with you on this.
This is not about religion. Its not about culture. Its about aggrievement.
Aggrievemet arising from years and years of interference by the UK and its Allies on foreign soil. Because at best, "we" think we know better, and at worst, we want something they have.
Aggrievement because their children have died becasue of "our" interference
ISIS are capitalising on this big time.
Its clearly lost on some people that "ISIS" whatever that actually is has flourished since "we" helped take Gadaffi down. Same for Iraq post Saddam Hussain. Some interesting views here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7309821.html
And here
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/23/...-invaded-iraq/
We all need to ask ourselves where has the hate come from.
This is not about religion. Its not about culture. Its about aggrievement.
Aggrievemet arising from years and years of interference by the UK and its Allies on foreign soil. Because at best, "we" think we know better, and at worst, we want something they have.
Aggrievement because their children have died becasue of "our" interference
ISIS are capitalising on this big time.
Its clearly lost on some people that "ISIS" whatever that actually is has flourished since "we" helped take Gadaffi down. Same for Iraq post Saddam Hussain. Some interesting views here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7309821.html
And here
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/23/...-invaded-iraq/
We all need to ask ourselves where has the hate come from.
I don't usually reply to you because I'm trying not to get drawn into anymore slanging matches as it does nothing for the site.
But yes these are the issues we need to be addressing... not doing the usual knee jerk response... which ultimately makes us no better than them.
Pouring more fuel onto the fire isn't going to help solve any of this... we need to step back and let them get on with whatever it is they are doing in their own countries... we wouldn't stand by and except an invading force so I don't see why we seem to think they should... the more of them we kill the more potential terroists we create... simples.