c_maguire

The president has been refused landing rights at Istanbul airport, and reports say has been seeking asylum in either Germany or Italy.

They won't be joining the E.U. anytime soon then, contrary to what some have been saying.

Hell and a handcart anyone?

DoZZa

iTrader: (4)

Isn't Boris of Turkish descent?

hodgy0_2

Yes

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I'm sure Boris has a solid aleebee, leave 'im out of it

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

If they thought their tourist industry is dead, it is now.

I just pray this doesn't turn into another Syria, Libya, Yemen etc.

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

We went to Marmaris twice last year on holiday and booked again to head out to Kusadasi this coming September. Luckily Thomson moved the departure date forward one day which gave me all the leverage I needed to get my money back...Which I did!

Although we are driving over to Belgium then down to France in a couple of weeks so it's out of the frying pan and into the fire!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Media are now calling it a "failed coup".

dpb

Probably shot all his generals , just like Hitler

Paben

iTrader: (5)

The closest we have come to this was back during Harold Wilson's final effort, when elements of the military and establishment were seriously planning to save the country from the ultra left and especially Wilson himself, who was suspected of being a Soviet mole. His sudden and unexpected resignation meant it was shelved.

JTaylor

I thought that lot had been debunked? And Wilson and his cabinet were not "ultra left".

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Wilson was suspected of having a Soviet connection, a bit leftish I think. And the planned coup was real.

JTaylor

Sources for both, please.

hodgy0_2

I think there is some evidence of a conspiracy

certain sections of the military and right wing elements seemed to be "plotting" or making vague contingency plans in the 70's to replace the government

but I suspect it was no more than a few old duffers plotting from the confines of their city drinking clubs, a glass of whisky and cigar in hand - wanting to go back to the certainties of the Empire

Channel 4 even turned it all into a comedy series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairly_Secret_Army

JTaylor

There have been murmurs over the years, but numerous debunkings of hypotheses pointing towards a substantive conspiracy to bring down the Wilson government. And said government was absolutely not "ultra left", Wilson was a moderate socialist and his cabinet were predominantly social democrats.

I'd recommend Defence of the Realm by Prof. Christopher Andrew.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Defence-Rea.../dp/0141023309

Still, I'm sure Madscoob and StiPete will be along to tell me that the good Professor is in on the plot and that the coup d'état was averted because Halliburton did something to someone somewhere...

Paben

iTrader: (5)

It was fear of the ultra left (communists) not the Wilson government itself that prompted the proposed coup. And it wasn't just a band of old no-hopers involved either.

hodgy0_2

I know you are not going to believe me JT, but my wife is just having birthday brunch, at this very moment, with his daughter Liza

I have a signed copy of the book

JTaylor

Who was involved, then?

I don't believe you.

hodgy0_2

I don't blame you tbh, but it is 100% true, she is married to a very old friend of mine

JTaylor

I do believe you, I was only joking. You and your family move in auspicious circles. Can you text your missus and ask her to ask Liza to ask the Professor to come on S'net and tell us whether or not Wilson was a secret commie?

hodgy0_2

lol, next time I see him, I will ask him

but seriously, as you have prob guessed I am quite interested in conspiracy theories, and the various specific claims they make (CTers often try not to make specific claims - because they are usually easy to debunk)

I don't explicitly doubt any conspiracy theory btw - it is often about examining a specific claim (whole theories are often difficult to debunk)

and these types of conspiracy theories involving the secret services are by their very nature tricky - it is a murky world after all

I suspect there where murmurings etc within the higher echelons of the establishment - but how concrete anything was seems doubtful

keep an open mind - but not so open your brains fall out

JTaylor

I'm interested, too. I'm not adverse to the notion that plotters plot and was turned on to the idea whilst reading Julius Caesar at the age of eleven. We even acted it out in our drama class with our late, great English master, Clive Burrows. I played Mark Antony and clearly remember being introduced to textual analysis and interpretation whilst looking at the final words of the Roman dictator. I managed to utter the phrase "et tu, Brute" once to a friend and colleague (and life competitor) who'd metaphorically stabbed me in the back over a possible promotion. He regarded me perplexedly.

The best conspiracies are hidden in plain sight. As that other infamous dictator, Adolf Hitler, once said "the great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." The greatest conspirators of all in my view and in post-modernity are corporations.

hodgy0_2

that's quite an interesting phrase - not heard that one before (and am now trying to work out if I have any)


yes my thoughts exactly

some "conspiracies" are also simply groupthink

I read quite a good little story from a Journalist, responding to the charge that the Murdoch press runs a conspiracy to stop any criticism of China

The journalist, who worked on one of the Murdoch titles dismissed it, saying contrary to what you may think there is no central diktat by Murdoch regarding reporting about China

However, and a big however - he absolutely agreed that the Murdoch press did not criticise China, but this was self censorship by the Journo's themselves, the theory was Rupert would not take kindly to articles that showed China in a bad light

so conspiracy or not? - you will not find a written evidence from Murdoch, yet China gets an overwhelmingly positive press

JTaylor

It was just something that popped in to my head while I typed. He was one of those natural social Darwinists who view absolutely everything as a competition. Sun tans, cars, status, intellect, girlfriends, sexual prowess, neatness of roll-your -own cigarettes...the whole shooting match. I never really liked him, but we somehow fell in to becoming 'friends'. I made one other 'friend' of a similar ilk. I even joined the Freemasons with him (I no longer practice The Craft) and he was desperate to get ahead of me in Masonry and in the local skittles team and so forth. I eventually became his boss and interestingly, given the subject matter, he attempted a putsch; he was unsuccessful and eventually lost his cool at a posh black-tie affair, where he shouted "you stole my f***ing job you c**t!"

Self-fulfilling events rooted in sentiment. Like you say, a kind of groupthink or mass consciousness manifesting itself in tangible ways. Good stuff.

hodgy0_2

lol, good stuff, yep the mask often slips with these losers

I come across those types, but try and steer clear, I am remarkably uncompetitive anyway (especially in the "trinkets" of modern life) so they naturally don't bother with me - I think people see me as a bit eccentric

however, I did read a sort of "self help" book years and years ago (and I am not really into all that rubbish)

but it did resonate with me - the central theory, which I took to mean

that you must keep in your head where you want to be and who you want to be - call it your "bowel of cherries"

keep that mental vision and you will get there - and I think I have

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Not wishing to be pedantic but 'bowel of cherries' made me hoot out loud!

JTaylor

I used to give my managers The Secret by Rhonda Byrne which is all about visualisation and the law of attraction. I actually set myself the goal of becoming a divisional manager within 3 years when I joined my current employers and took over the Scottish division 2 years and 360 days later (before coming back to run the Welsh division). It's basically a rip-off of the power of prayer and is a powerful tool, but needs to be wielded carefully. Be careful what you wish for. I posted on it years ago, will dig it out.

JTaylor

https://www.scoobynet.com/888939-hea...l#post10048168

You write something disparaging (but funny) a couple of posts down. I became a Christian a few months later.

hodgy0_2

lol, yes not quite what I meant

I think my wife was shouting at me to get off the computer and do something or other

hodgy0_2

I think (and I maybe wrong) you slightly disavowed that post recently


but anyway - watching you post over the years I think I could see you have a life change, indeed I believe I "accused" (in quotes because although it is not the right word it may have come as an accusation at the time, for which I apologise) of embarking on the Alpha course

Narnia - lol

JTaylor

Yes, the post was partially twaddle, but my connecting the dots around visualisation and the power of prayer still resonates with me now. With regards the Alpha course, I suppose I did create and attend my own version of it with my studies. The only person to have captured the conversion journey in a way that makes me nod in agreement at every stanza is Francis Thompson in The Hound of Heaven - I'll dig out a version beautifully read by Richard Burton.