The Euro.
11 June 2002, 09:14 AM
#1
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Rupert Murdoch said this morning that he's gonna use his papers to campaign against the Euro.I personally am in favour of the Euro,and if there was a vote tomorrow i'd vote YES.......
.....what about everyone else?
.....what about everyone else?
11 June 2002, 09:22 AM
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Ooh, this is a difficult one. On the one hand I would like to have the Euro, but on the other, I would not.
From MY point of view:
For - easier when you go abroad. My parents have a house in France and they currently have a Euro mortgage for that. It would be easier for them as the exchange rate fluctuations would not be a problem for them when they do their budgets. Also make it easier for when I go and stay there - no currency to change
Also would mean we wouldn't have to think about how much something is worth, if you get what I mean.
For business, surely it would be a good thing - more exporting opportunities without the same currency fluctuations. Would a European company rather spend in their native currency or have to deal with paying charges for converting etc. (May not actually be the case as most people at the company I work for use Euros anyway)
Against - The losing of our sovereignty etc.... The pressure the Euro will put on small businesses which may make many of them go out of business.... Getting used to a new currency etc.
I am probably with you Paul, I would say yes, but would need to have more information from both sides to make a clear judgement.
From MY point of view:
For - easier when you go abroad. My parents have a house in France and they currently have a Euro mortgage for that. It would be easier for them as the exchange rate fluctuations would not be a problem for them when they do their budgets. Also make it easier for when I go and stay there - no currency to change
Also would mean we wouldn't have to think about how much something is worth, if you get what I mean.
For business, surely it would be a good thing - more exporting opportunities without the same currency fluctuations. Would a European company rather spend in their native currency or have to deal with paying charges for converting etc. (May not actually be the case as most people at the company I work for use Euros anyway)
Against - The losing of our sovereignty etc.... The pressure the Euro will put on small businesses which may make many of them go out of business.... Getting used to a new currency etc.
I am probably with you Paul, I would say yes, but would need to have more information from both sides to make a clear judgement.
11 June 2002, 09:52 AM
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Big No from me.
The currency in your pocket is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what you are actually voting for. The whole thing is a sham, which is why To$$er Blair won't engage into a debate about it. Hopefully the sight of so many people celebrating the Queen's reign will have pissed on the EU bonfire slightly as well.
Did anyone catch the comment from one of the Germans on "Meet the Neighbours" last Friday night? He basically said they are trying to take over Europe again, this time using peaceful methods.
The currency in your pocket is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what you are actually voting for. The whole thing is a sham, which is why To$$er Blair won't engage into a debate about it. Hopefully the sight of so many people celebrating the Queen's reign will have pissed on the EU bonfire slightly as well.
Did anyone catch the comment from one of the Germans on "Meet the Neighbours" last Friday night? He basically said they are trying to take over Europe again, this time using peaceful methods.
11 June 2002, 10:07 AM
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Handy for travelling but...
When/if we enter the euro they will have to revalue the pound as it is too high at the moment - ie we lose money therefore bad idea - NO THANKS!
When/if we enter the euro they will have to revalue the pound as it is too high at the moment - ie we lose money therefore bad idea - NO THANKS!
11 June 2002, 10:21 AM
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Agree its easier when travelling abroad if your doing different countries a lot. If it is going to come in then Tony and his merry men should be getting people used to the idea now. I have travelled to Europe many times inthe last few years andseen that most shps supermarkets were showing Euro prices alongside there own currency prices. This made for a smoother transition in Jan when it all got started.
The only place I have seen in the UK doing this is the toll on the Severn bridge. Trouble is there is that it cost £4.40 to cross if paid in sterling or £6.60. if paid in Euros(10 Euros) which is ridiculous. Its petty things like this that will put people off the Euro.
As for me personally I dont really mind the Euro. One thing that does annoy me though is all this Pro-Euro talk of free trade etc. Its bollox. One cant even go across the water now and buy beer and **** unless you stick to limits imposed by government.
Chip.
The only place I have seen in the UK doing this is the toll on the Severn bridge. Trouble is there is that it cost £4.40 to cross if paid in sterling or £6.60. if paid in Euros(10 Euros) which is ridiculous. Its petty things like this that will put people off the Euro.
As for me personally I dont really mind the Euro. One thing that does annoy me though is all this Pro-Euro talk of free trade etc. Its bollox. One cant even go across the water now and buy beer and **** unless you stick to limits imposed by government.
Chip.
11 June 2002, 10:52 AM
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The slight benefit of "being the same" as in Europe so its easier during my 2 weeks in Ibizia is uttlery trivial next to implications of losing control of our own financial destiny.
If you change to the euro you will lose the ability to set ineterest rates, key tax rates, borrowing etc. Its hard enough setting a single monetary policy for the benefit of the whole UK because differing regions have differing needs and priorities. To assume that a monetary policy set in Europe for Europe will be better for the UK is farcial.
Its is not inevetible and Tonys knows it. The labour party is scared of a deabt on the matter as they know thet once the debate moves beyond whether we need the queens head on our notes (not important) there is no reasonable argument for it.
Deano
If you change to the euro you will lose the ability to set ineterest rates, key tax rates, borrowing etc. Its hard enough setting a single monetary policy for the benefit of the whole UK because differing regions have differing needs and priorities. To assume that a monetary policy set in Europe for Europe will be better for the UK is farcial.
Its is not inevetible and Tonys knows it. The labour party is scared of a deabt on the matter as they know thet once the debate moves beyond whether we need the queens head on our notes (not important) there is no reasonable argument for it.
Deano
11 June 2002, 12:32 PM
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Against - when we give up our currency, it is a slippery slope towards losing our national identity, which I for one would like to keep.
Interesting point on Clarkson Meets the Neighbours the other day - he was chatting with some German students. Roughly, they said "two world wars failed to create a super state in Europe, but this time using diplmacy seems to be doing the trick" [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Interesting point on Clarkson Meets the Neighbours the other day - he was chatting with some German students. Roughly, they said "two world wars failed to create a super state in Europe, but this time using diplmacy seems to be doing the trick" [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
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11 June 2002, 12:58 PM
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Its not just a matter of time... thats what this crappy government wants you to think.
Its nice to note/know that some parts of Germany have started using Marks again as well, because they are that fooked off with it.
I can't actually think of a (real) valid reason to actually take up the Euro, as "making going on holiday easier" is not really a reason in the grand scheme of things.
Does anyone know what exactly the "five" key tests are by the way? IIRc they are all subjective, which means if Tony thinks its a good idea, the tests are passed.
If you want to go into it further, the whole EU is a sham. I mean, you've got Neil Kinock holding the position he does, yet he was unable to get elected as a prime minister in his own country..... what does that tell you? Also the trade deficit between mainland Europe and Britain is in their favour, so if we pulled out the EU (i.e free to trade with whom we like), it would be in the interests of the rest of Europe to renegotiate with us, rather than the other way round.
Its nice to note/know that some parts of Germany have started using Marks again as well, because they are that fooked off with it.
I can't actually think of a (real) valid reason to actually take up the Euro, as "making going on holiday easier" is not really a reason in the grand scheme of things.
Does anyone know what exactly the "five" key tests are by the way? IIRc they are all subjective, which means if Tony thinks its a good idea, the tests are passed.
If you want to go into it further, the whole EU is a sham. I mean, you've got Neil Kinock holding the position he does, yet he was unable to get elected as a prime minister in his own country..... what does that tell you? Also the trade deficit between mainland Europe and Britain is in their favour, so if we pulled out the EU (i.e free to trade with whom we like), it would be in the interests of the rest of Europe to renegotiate with us, rather than the other way round.
11 June 2002, 01:06 PM
#12
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Tight for time now but...
Firmly against it. So less agro for people two or three weeks a year. Big deal.
Great quote for Mr Murdoch...
"Europe is made up of so many diverse cultures and histories that to slam it altogether with a government of French bureaucrats answerable to nobody... I cannot see anything but benefit by waiting," he said.
I'll vote for him
Firmly against it. So less agro for people two or three weeks a year. Big deal.
Great quote for Mr Murdoch...
"Europe is made up of so many diverse cultures and histories that to slam it altogether with a government of French bureaucrats answerable to nobody... I cannot see anything but benefit by waiting," he said.
I'll vote for him
11 June 2002, 01:08 PM
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I'd need to read up on a lot more things, but basically the Euro is dead in the water unless the UK join. Problem is, the British people don't seem too keen on it. Catch 22.
I'd also hazzard a guess that Tony has been *offered* some kind of "super EU" job if he can get Britain in.
I'd also hazzard a guess that Tony has been *offered* some kind of "super EU" job if he can get Britain in.
11 June 2002, 01:30 PM
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Gonna be a bit blunt here.....
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
take that as a definite big fat NO.
If I could do all the fancy stuff I would have filled the page with a big black NO
I`m sure one of you will assist!!!!!!
Joan.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
take that as a definite big fat NO.
If I could do all the fancy stuff I would have filled the page with a big black NO
I`m sure one of you will assist!!!!!!
Joan.
11 June 2002, 01:42 PM
#15
it seems, from what i hear from relations in Europe that they like the Euro because they a been given "Euro money" to improve the environment of their towns,roads,housing & the like. It seems that the government have given them a very substancial amount that over the last few months have seen a vast physical improvement of the standard of life over there.
11 June 2002, 01:46 PM
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There's no "free" money. Euro Money comes from Europe !. If we stopped paying cash to europe I'm sure we could either spend a shed load more on ourselves - or - cut a fair few pence off income tax.
11 June 2002, 02:01 PM
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Thanks for the replies.
For me only concern is the one about a common interest rate.My boss is from Dublin and recently the Irish economy has been enjoying a boom.Normally this would call for a slight rise in interest rates just to slow it down a bit,but because they share a common interest rate with Europe this is not possible.
So there will be times when one part of Europe is in recession(answer:lower rates) and another part is enjoying a boom(answer:higher rates)but they will have to put up with a one rate fits all policy.Of course this can be alleviated through tax and spend,but for me this is a concern with a single interest rate.
As for some of the other points,Rupert Murdoch has his own personal adgenda,i'd never take any notice of anything he says.
Loss of national identity is not something i worry about either,same goes with sovereignty.I'm sure we'd still keep all the good things about Britain.Anyway how much power do we really have anyway?
No,as i said earlier,if there was a referendum,i would still vote YES.
Paul.
[Edited by paulr - 6/11/2002 3:06:00 PM]
For me only concern is the one about a common interest rate.My boss is from Dublin and recently the Irish economy has been enjoying a boom.Normally this would call for a slight rise in interest rates just to slow it down a bit,but because they share a common interest rate with Europe this is not possible.
So there will be times when one part of Europe is in recession(answer:lower rates) and another part is enjoying a boom(answer:higher rates)but they will have to put up with a one rate fits all policy.Of course this can be alleviated through tax and spend,but for me this is a concern with a single interest rate.
As for some of the other points,Rupert Murdoch has his own personal adgenda,i'd never take any notice of anything he says.
Loss of national identity is not something i worry about either,same goes with sovereignty.I'm sure we'd still keep all the good things about Britain.Anyway how much power do we really have anyway?
No,as i said earlier,if there was a referendum,i would still vote YES.
Paul.
[Edited by paulr - 6/11/2002 3:06:00 PM]
11 June 2002, 02:08 PM
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"Only concern" is Interest rates. Do you honestly beleive that is the only factor of monetary policy that is a) important and b) would be sacrificed to europe.
Sovereignty in this sense has bugger all to do with Royalism vs Republicanism, Labour vs Conservatism etc but maintianing the ability of the British people to decide the fate of the British people.
Nothing is inevitable. Do you buy a car simply beacuse someone else did - or did you make the decision based on your personal opinions, views and requirements.
Sovereignty in this sense has bugger all to do with Royalism vs Republicanism, Labour vs Conservatism etc but maintianing the ability of the British people to decide the fate of the British people.
Nothing is inevitable. Do you buy a car simply beacuse someone else did - or did you make the decision based on your personal opinions, views and requirements.
11 June 2002, 02:38 PM
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No. Making it "easier on holiday" is a reason to give up the pound? What kind of a moronic argument is that? Do me a favour. I buy everything using plastic when I'm on holiday, prices will always be different on holiday, that's the point.
The only way to balance one currency across the entire continent is to have one government and one treasury and even then it won't work. Look at England at the moment, do you seriously think that the pound in London is worth the same as the pound in Newcastle? The Euro is nothing but a fixed exchange rate which will cause massive cycles of boom & bust in individual areas. What happens when they try to tax the price of goods to control inflation when they can't raise interest rates? We'll just start importing from cheaper areas, it will be a disaster.
And what kind of government will we have? One that it is unelected, wastes BILLIONS of pounds every year and still can't compete with the United States in terms of productivity.
We should quit the EU and join NAFTA, we have far more in common with the USA than Europe.
http://www.democracymovement.org.uk/booklet/
http://www.no-euro.com/
The only way to balance one currency across the entire continent is to have one government and one treasury and even then it won't work. Look at England at the moment, do you seriously think that the pound in London is worth the same as the pound in Newcastle? The Euro is nothing but a fixed exchange rate which will cause massive cycles of boom & bust in individual areas. What happens when they try to tax the price of goods to control inflation when they can't raise interest rates? We'll just start importing from cheaper areas, it will be a disaster.
And what kind of government will we have? One that it is unelected, wastes BILLIONS of pounds every year and still can't compete with the United States in terms of productivity.
We should quit the EU and join NAFTA, we have far more in common with the USA than Europe.
http://www.democracymovement.org.uk/booklet/
http://www.no-euro.com/
11 June 2002, 04:21 PM
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Hmmm very tricky this one.
The company I work for trades on the world market and is very pro Euro, the high value of the pound is not good for us.
I'm concerned that joining the Euro would later mean central European taxation etc. Think we need some safegaurds before joining.
Lee
The company I work for trades on the world market and is very pro Euro, the high value of the pound is not good for us.
I'm concerned that joining the Euro would later mean central European taxation etc. Think we need some safegaurds before joining.
Lee
11 June 2002, 09:40 PM
#24
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Absolutely NO to the Euro!!!
And whilst we are on the subject of un-elected european beaurocrats, didn't i read somewhere that the auditors have refused to sign off the EU accounts for FOUR YEARS IN A ROW - presumably because they simply don't add up?
mb
And whilst we are on the subject of un-elected european beaurocrats, didn't i read somewhere that the auditors have refused to sign off the EU accounts for FOUR YEARS IN A ROW - presumably because they simply don't add up?
mb
11 June 2002, 11:18 PM
#25
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We already have a "world wide" single currency anyway. Its that plastic card(s) in your wallet.
Glad someone else appears to have the same thoughts about Neil Kinnock. It really does begger belief that he holds such a high postion in the EU, when his own country thought he was pants. Are those the sort of people u want running ur country? They have done, and continue to do damage, and its about time we turned around and told them to get stuffed. Its not like they can afford to loose our 10billion pounds a year is it? (note somebody has quoted 11 here....) That really would screw things up if we stopped proping up French farmers and Spanish fishermen.
Can't wait for Clarkson on Friday.... best program on TV atm
Glad someone else appears to have the same thoughts about Neil Kinnock. It really does begger belief that he holds such a high postion in the EU, when his own country thought he was pants. Are those the sort of people u want running ur country? They have done, and continue to do damage, and its about time we turned around and told them to get stuffed. Its not like they can afford to loose our 10billion pounds a year is it? (note somebody has quoted 11 here....) That really would screw things up if we stopped proping up French farmers and Spanish fishermen.
Can't wait for Clarkson on Friday.... best program on TV atm
12 June 2002, 10:14 AM
#26
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Pardon me, but didn't Neil Kinnock get such a high position because our government proposed him for the job?
And remember, he got more votes in the 92 election than Tony B did this time round... so who should be in the higher position?
And remember, he got more votes in the 92 election than Tony B did this time round... so who should be in the higher position?
12 June 2002, 10:18 AM
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- over 60% of Germans in a recent survey wanted to ditch the Euro and return to the DM. Enough said.
- entering the Euro is just the first stage towards trying to replicate the US. problem is cultural and lingual differences across Europe mean that the underlying assumptions to make this work (e.g. freeflow of labour) are flawed
- those who believe we would merely lose control of interest rates are living in cloud cuckoo land. we would no longer be able to control our economy using taxes for 2 reasons: a) they'd be much more transparent and therefore anything too far away from the Eurozone 'norm' would be anti-competitive; b) Euro draft legislation is already going through to harmonise taxes across Euroland. Who on here wants their economy controlled from Brussels or (God forbid) Germany?
- sovereignty is a smokescreen as what people really mean by this is national identity. that is unlikely to be affected in real terms but the mechanisms underlying our country could. e.g. long term you can see a day where specifics such as our legal system are revised to the Roman system across Europe. barking.
- how many strong economies exist outwith the US but use the US dollar? none. for a reason - they can't control their own economic destiny.
- the chat around not worrying about exchange rates when you go on holiday is nice - but let's leave it there, it is a drop in the ocean compared with the negative points surrounding wider controls.
- a single currency would arguably set a level playing field removing exchange rate risk for attracting inward investment into the UK. this is cancelled out, however, by the fact that we are an island off the coast of this proposed Euro super state. if all is equal (as is quietly proposed) then why would a large conglomerate choose to base themselves here with such a pain in the **** transport infrastructure? they wouldn't. hence we need separate control of our economy to outweigh this logistical disadvantage with fiscal benefits.
NO TO THE EURO!
The country has rolled over and accepted the Labour government back door income tax rise (National Insurance +1% with no limit), the latest manifest promise blatantly broken. Don't roll over and believe their ****e on the Euro. A socialist Euro economy is not good news for a Europe trying to compete with the emerging economies in the Far East.
Gordo
- entering the Euro is just the first stage towards trying to replicate the US. problem is cultural and lingual differences across Europe mean that the underlying assumptions to make this work (e.g. freeflow of labour) are flawed
- those who believe we would merely lose control of interest rates are living in cloud cuckoo land. we would no longer be able to control our economy using taxes for 2 reasons: a) they'd be much more transparent and therefore anything too far away from the Eurozone 'norm' would be anti-competitive; b) Euro draft legislation is already going through to harmonise taxes across Euroland. Who on here wants their economy controlled from Brussels or (God forbid) Germany?
- sovereignty is a smokescreen as what people really mean by this is national identity. that is unlikely to be affected in real terms but the mechanisms underlying our country could. e.g. long term you can see a day where specifics such as our legal system are revised to the Roman system across Europe. barking.
- how many strong economies exist outwith the US but use the US dollar? none. for a reason - they can't control their own economic destiny.
- the chat around not worrying about exchange rates when you go on holiday is nice - but let's leave it there, it is a drop in the ocean compared with the negative points surrounding wider controls.
- a single currency would arguably set a level playing field removing exchange rate risk for attracting inward investment into the UK. this is cancelled out, however, by the fact that we are an island off the coast of this proposed Euro super state. if all is equal (as is quietly proposed) then why would a large conglomerate choose to base themselves here with such a pain in the **** transport infrastructure? they wouldn't. hence we need separate control of our economy to outweigh this logistical disadvantage with fiscal benefits.
NO TO THE EURO!
The country has rolled over and accepted the Labour government back door income tax rise (National Insurance +1% with no limit), the latest manifest promise blatantly broken. Don't roll over and believe their ****e on the Euro. A socialist Euro economy is not good news for a Europe trying to compete with the emerging economies in the Far East.
Gordo
12 June 2002, 11:19 AM
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It has hit them like decimalisation hit the UK in the early seventies. It is a recipe for rampant inflation. The unit of price increase for a lot of these countries is like 5 to ten times what it used to be, and they won't use the smaller coins. Stuff priced in italy at £1.86, was charged at £1.90, though it was rare to see anything not priced in tens of cents.
Euro as pointed out above, a fixed exchange rate. If businesses are so keen to deal on a fixed rate, keep a trading account in US dollars and only deal in that currency.
Saving the UK as we have it now? Christ almighty what is so marvellous about a country with dog crap on football pitches, parks and streets, feckless louts everywhere you look doing just what they like with no fear of retribution, litter blowing around all over the magasin.
The highest teenage and single parent pregnancy rate in Europe.
The biggest drugs/car crime/personal assault rates in Europe.
Freeloading "asylum seekers" galore joining our own native spongers.
Paedophiles kept safe from harm by our "society".
Roads under constant repair/damaging traffic jams the norm.
No Government policy or commitment to anything except filling their (and their chums) boots from any main party.
Blah drone buzz..........
Wow, well worth saving eh? Maybe those foreign Johnnies have got some things right?
Maybe they're doing it spending our contributions to the club?
Euro as pointed out above, a fixed exchange rate. If businesses are so keen to deal on a fixed rate, keep a trading account in US dollars and only deal in that currency.
Saving the UK as we have it now? Christ almighty what is so marvellous about a country with dog crap on football pitches, parks and streets, feckless louts everywhere you look doing just what they like with no fear of retribution, litter blowing around all over the magasin.
The highest teenage and single parent pregnancy rate in Europe.
The biggest drugs/car crime/personal assault rates in Europe.
Freeloading "asylum seekers" galore joining our own native spongers.
Paedophiles kept safe from harm by our "society".
Roads under constant repair/damaging traffic jams the norm.
No Government policy or commitment to anything except filling their (and their chums) boots from any main party.
Blah drone buzz..........
Wow, well worth saving eh? Maybe those foreign Johnnies have got some things right?
Maybe they're doing it spending our contributions to the club?
12 June 2002, 05:08 PM
#29
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No!!!!!!!!! but ive got a horrible feeling weve going to be forced by Europe and All the foreign companys based in the UK and we all know Tony loves to pander to EVERYTHING foreign
12 June 2002, 08:39 PM
#30
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No,
Interest Rate / Taxation policies dictated by the ECB (Germany) by another name.
Taxes would rise more quickly than otherwise would be the case.
European pension funds woefully underfunded compared to UK counterparts.
Bank of England's Gold bullion and reserves shipped over to Bundesbank!
No exit facility in the treaty, (Can we have our cash back please?)
ERM didn't work because of our different economic cycles and cultures and look what that cost the UK! (£1bn for Gearge Soros for starters)
UK becomes emasculated with much less influence on domestic policies.
As Frederick Forsythe said "Germany accomplishes in peacetime what it set out to do in WWII"
As the decision is ultimately open to a referendum, I believe a significant number of the older generation will remember the 40s and will vote against. Whereas the younger generation will probably lean towards a yes vote. The question is how will Blair's spin doctoring face up to Murdoch's might?
NEIN!
Jerome
Interest Rate / Taxation policies dictated by the ECB (Germany) by another name.
Taxes would rise more quickly than otherwise would be the case.
European pension funds woefully underfunded compared to UK counterparts.
Bank of England's Gold bullion and reserves shipped over to Bundesbank!
No exit facility in the treaty, (Can we have our cash back please?)
ERM didn't work because of our different economic cycles and cultures and look what that cost the UK! (£1bn for Gearge Soros for starters)
UK becomes emasculated with much less influence on domestic policies.
As Frederick Forsythe said "Germany accomplishes in peacetime what it set out to do in WWII"
As the decision is ultimately open to a referendum, I believe a significant number of the older generation will remember the 40s and will vote against. Whereas the younger generation will probably lean towards a yes vote. The question is how will Blair's spin doctoring face up to Murdoch's might?
NEIN!
Jerome