Clarkson.
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#2
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: W / London
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not saying whether I disagree with what he says or not, that's irrelevant, but is he not entitled to his opinion. We all know he's very outspoken, but at the end of the day we live in a democracy that allows free speech.
#4
Scooby Regular
I don't really agree with this sort of censorship
As long as he is not inciting violence etc he should be free to air his views
I think it is important to hear peoples views, especially if they are in a position that allows them to spout them so vocally
You can then judge him and judge the sort of paper that allows him to air them
As long as he is not inciting violence etc he should be free to air his views
I think it is important to hear peoples views, especially if they are in a position that allows them to spout them so vocally
You can then judge him and judge the sort of paper that allows him to air them
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Please excuse my Spelling - its not the best !!
Posts: 2,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm a little confused here, it was for his newspaper column, so surely it will have been checked by an editor who agrees to print it.
Then its pulled after its printed ?
Talk about the not wanting to stand by its articles and bowing to peer pressure.
Richard
Then its pulled after its printed ?
Talk about the not wanting to stand by its articles and bowing to peer pressure.
Richard
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't really agree with this sort of censorship
As long as he is not inciting violence etc he should be free to air his views
I think it is important to hear peoples views, especially if they are in a position that allows them to spout them so vocally
You can then judge him and judge the sort of paper that allows him to air them
As long as he is not inciting violence etc he should be free to air his views
I think it is important to hear peoples views, especially if they are in a position that allows them to spout them so vocally
You can then judge him and judge the sort of paper that allows him to air them
Trending Topics
#8
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
This is the typical response of most publications. When there is any backlash the writer is invariably blamed for expressing controversial views, whereas the person responsible is the Editor for allowing the piece to be published.
Similarly Clarkson was regularly villified on Top Gear for making iffy statements, usually tongue in cheek, but this was not a live programme and every second of its run time would have been passed by an editorial team.
Similarly Clarkson was regularly villified on Top Gear for making iffy statements, usually tongue in cheek, but this was not a live programme and every second of its run time would have been passed by an editorial team.
#10
Scooby Regular
yes, very good
I am passionate about free speech - as he says when you ban free speech, next is "thought crime"
I would have liked to have discussed with him on his points regarding "consensus"
I am not sure I entirely agree on that point - which seems to be that "consensus" in itself is meaningless
whilst I agree with him if his point is simply about the right to speak out against a consensus, then fine
but consensus is important, it means I don't have to become an oncologist to accept the cigarette / cancer link, I accept the consensus
and he does make the interesting point regarding the extent of ones own knowledge - i.e. how do you know the earth is flat, revolves around the sun and evolution explains the diversity of life on the planet
there is a lot about the natural world that you simply have to accept
I am pretty sure a committed and intelligent creationist could out argue the average person on evolution - "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys",
"why are there no transitional fossils"
"how does a mouse "evolve" into a bat when at some stage the "legs" would be useless as legs and useless as wings - what advantage does that give"
and just because a creationist could "win" that argument in no way implies that the general scientific consensus is wrong - it simply says the person he is arguing against does not fully understand how evolution works
and why should they - I doubt many people could give a reasonable account of the evolutionary theory faced with opposition from a creationist
people simply don't have the time (and nor should they be required to) become experts in all these different fields
I am passionate about free speech - as he says when you ban free speech, next is "thought crime"
I would have liked to have discussed with him on his points regarding "consensus"
I am not sure I entirely agree on that point - which seems to be that "consensus" in itself is meaningless
whilst I agree with him if his point is simply about the right to speak out against a consensus, then fine
but consensus is important, it means I don't have to become an oncologist to accept the cigarette / cancer link, I accept the consensus
and he does make the interesting point regarding the extent of ones own knowledge - i.e. how do you know the earth is flat, revolves around the sun and evolution explains the diversity of life on the planet
there is a lot about the natural world that you simply have to accept
I am pretty sure a committed and intelligent creationist could out argue the average person on evolution - "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys",
"why are there no transitional fossils"
"how does a mouse "evolve" into a bat when at some stage the "legs" would be useless as legs and useless as wings - what advantage does that give"
and just because a creationist could "win" that argument in no way implies that the general scientific consensus is wrong - it simply says the person he is arguing against does not fully understand how evolution works
and why should they - I doubt many people could give a reasonable account of the evolutionary theory faced with opposition from a creationist
people simply don't have the time (and nor should they be required to) become experts in all these different fields
#11
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Hitchens's address 2006; how very prophetic. He's so right and the oft quoted 'free speech' has long been banished from our society.
I sit on a board where the subject of transgender has been at the forefront of several meeting agendas. During the meetings (when minutes are being taken) we play lip service to this nonsense. However, talking privately the general opinion is that it's a load of total bollocks on which we should not be wasting a moment of our time. If all who feel this way spoke their minds then this would be kicked into touch where it belongs - but who speaks first?!
#12
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (11)
As is so often the case with these things, you can bet that a large proportion of the people claiming to have been offended haven't actually read the article in question - something made all the more likely here by the fact The Times sits behind a pay-wall.
Also, I don't quite understand the logic behind towleroad.com's claim that Clarkson's article has been pulled. Removed from a special editorial section, maybe, but I can still access a link to it, and read the first couple of paragraphs (I'm not a Times subscriber):
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...ce?teaser=true
Also, I don't quite understand the logic behind towleroad.com's claim that Clarkson's article has been pulled. Removed from a special editorial section, maybe, but I can still access a link to it, and read the first couple of paragraphs (I'm not a Times subscriber):
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...ce?teaser=true
#13
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Seems Clarky has visted Chaturbate
Nothing any any diferent to the incitful diatribe in Katie Hopkin's column...and she carrys on uncensored.
And as Mark above has pointed out, certain lines have appeared to be cherry picked which completely removes the context of the whole article which appears to be more about bashing the lefties, which is something he always does...
source: http://failover-www.thesundaytimes.c...le1659305.html
Nothing any any diferent to the incitful diatribe in Katie Hopkin's column...and she carrys on uncensored.
And as Mark above has pointed out, certain lines have appeared to be cherry picked which completely removes the context of the whole article which appears to be more about bashing the lefties, which is something he always does...
Now that women can vote and homosexual couples can marry, you might imagine that the world’s student activists, trade union leaders and environmentalists would pat themselves on the back and break open a bottle of sustainable elderflower juice to congratulate themselves on a job well done.
But no. They have decided that we must now all turn our attention to the plight of people who want to change their name from Stan to Loretta, and fight for the right for men to have babies.
I’ll be honest. When this issue first began to surface a couple of years ago and we had pop stars such as Sir John running about, talking endlessly about the transgender cause, I did roll my eyes a bit. Because in the immortal words of Reg, from the People’s Front of Judea, “Where’s the foetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box? ”
As far as I was concerned, men who want to be women were only really to be found on the internet or in the seedier bits of Bangkok. They were called ladyboys, and in my mind they were nothing more than the punchline in a stag night anecdote.
I wasn’t alone either. Only recently I was chatting to a doctor about how people can now demand gender reassignment surgery on the NHS and he said, “I get lots of people in my surgery with a Napoleon complex. But I don’t buy them a pointy hat and a French army uniform.” I found that funny.
But there’s a distinctly unfunny side to the coin. Just recently some friends of friends were having one of their eight-year-old daughter’s school chums round for a sleepover. As the day approached they received a call from the girl’s parents, who said, “Er, she’s not actually a girl.”
She had been born a boy but had insisted from the age of three that she had a girl’s name and wore girls’ clothes and, later, that she went to a girls’ school. And her parents had simply indulged this whim.
I was horrified. I wanted to seek them out and explain that they were free to live a lunatic life, washing their armpits with charcoal and liking Jeremy Corbyn’s thoughts on how ballistic nuclear submarines must be built by the comrades and then used as flower pots. But they must not, and I was going to emphasise this with spittle, be allowed to poison the mind of a child.
When I was five I wanted to be Alan Whicker, but my parents didn’t buy me a blazer and send me to hospital to have my adenoids sewn up. Other kids wanted to be super army soldiers or astronauts. It’s what kids do: dream impossible dreams.
You don’t actually take them seriously. You don’t take them to a hospital when they’re 10 and say, “He wants to be a girl, so can you lop his todger off?” Because what’s going to happen five years later when he’s decided that being a man isn’t so bad after all and he’s in the showers at the rugby club?
And there’s more. Only last week we received news from the Daily Mail that at Isle of Wight prison nine inmates have decided they would like to be women and now want the NHS to stump up £100,000 for the necessary procedures.
Transgender enthusiasts talked with serious faces about how this demonstrated the scale of the problem and the horror of being a woman trapped not just inside a man’s body, but inside a man’s prison as well.
Yes, but hang on just a cotton-picking minute. When I was at school, I announced that I would like to be confirmed as a Christian. This was seen by teachers and my housemaster as a sign that I was growing up, so they happily agreed to my request.
And from that day on I was allowed to skip compulsory chapel on a Sunday morning — where you were checked and ticked off on a register — and go instead to the early morning village communion service, where you weren’t. Which meant I didn’t have to go to church at all and could therefore spend all weekend with my girlfriend.
Can’t anyone see, I wailed, that this is what’s going on in the Isle of Wight nick? They tell the screws they want to be women, they get a bit of make-up and some breasts to play with and they are then transferred to a women’s prison, where they can spend the rest of their lives being a lesbian. It’s every man’s dream.
To try to calm down a bit, I turned to the BBC for guidance, and there I was told there are 650,000 people living in Britain today with some kind of gender “issue”. Well, I just sat there shaking my head, because the simple fact is: there aren’t.
We are told that one in 10 of the population are gay, that one in 10 have cancer, that one in 10 support Isis, that one in 10 think Corbyn’s doing a good job, that one in 10 have a criminal record, that one in 10 are living below the poverty line and that one in 10 were born elsewhere, and now we are expected to believe that one in 100 are transgender. Well, if that’s so, it means that — according to my maths — fewer than three in 10 are healthy, straight, honest, British people who don’t want their genitals altered. And that’s obviously rubbish.
But then I thought of something. Let’s just say for a moment that one in 1,000 are transgender. Or one in 100,000. Or even that it’s actually just one. Let’s say that there is one person out there who is a woman living in a man’s body, or the other way around.
I started to imagine what life might be like for the poor soul. It would be dreadful. Absolutely awful. And all they seem to want to make their life better is a third gender option box on official documents. That’s not really the end of the world for everyone else, is it?
But no. They have decided that we must now all turn our attention to the plight of people who want to change their name from Stan to Loretta, and fight for the right for men to have babies.
I’ll be honest. When this issue first began to surface a couple of years ago and we had pop stars such as Sir John running about, talking endlessly about the transgender cause, I did roll my eyes a bit. Because in the immortal words of Reg, from the People’s Front of Judea, “Where’s the foetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box? ”
As far as I was concerned, men who want to be women were only really to be found on the internet or in the seedier bits of Bangkok. They were called ladyboys, and in my mind they were nothing more than the punchline in a stag night anecdote.
I wasn’t alone either. Only recently I was chatting to a doctor about how people can now demand gender reassignment surgery on the NHS and he said, “I get lots of people in my surgery with a Napoleon complex. But I don’t buy them a pointy hat and a French army uniform.” I found that funny.
But there’s a distinctly unfunny side to the coin. Just recently some friends of friends were having one of their eight-year-old daughter’s school chums round for a sleepover. As the day approached they received a call from the girl’s parents, who said, “Er, she’s not actually a girl.”
She had been born a boy but had insisted from the age of three that she had a girl’s name and wore girls’ clothes and, later, that she went to a girls’ school. And her parents had simply indulged this whim.
I was horrified. I wanted to seek them out and explain that they were free to live a lunatic life, washing their armpits with charcoal and liking Jeremy Corbyn’s thoughts on how ballistic nuclear submarines must be built by the comrades and then used as flower pots. But they must not, and I was going to emphasise this with spittle, be allowed to poison the mind of a child.
When I was five I wanted to be Alan Whicker, but my parents didn’t buy me a blazer and send me to hospital to have my adenoids sewn up. Other kids wanted to be super army soldiers or astronauts. It’s what kids do: dream impossible dreams.
You don’t actually take them seriously. You don’t take them to a hospital when they’re 10 and say, “He wants to be a girl, so can you lop his todger off?” Because what’s going to happen five years later when he’s decided that being a man isn’t so bad after all and he’s in the showers at the rugby club?
And there’s more. Only last week we received news from the Daily Mail that at Isle of Wight prison nine inmates have decided they would like to be women and now want the NHS to stump up £100,000 for the necessary procedures.
Transgender enthusiasts talked with serious faces about how this demonstrated the scale of the problem and the horror of being a woman trapped not just inside a man’s body, but inside a man’s prison as well.
Yes, but hang on just a cotton-picking minute. When I was at school, I announced that I would like to be confirmed as a Christian. This was seen by teachers and my housemaster as a sign that I was growing up, so they happily agreed to my request.
And from that day on I was allowed to skip compulsory chapel on a Sunday morning — where you were checked and ticked off on a register — and go instead to the early morning village communion service, where you weren’t. Which meant I didn’t have to go to church at all and could therefore spend all weekend with my girlfriend.
Can’t anyone see, I wailed, that this is what’s going on in the Isle of Wight nick? They tell the screws they want to be women, they get a bit of make-up and some breasts to play with and they are then transferred to a women’s prison, where they can spend the rest of their lives being a lesbian. It’s every man’s dream.
To try to calm down a bit, I turned to the BBC for guidance, and there I was told there are 650,000 people living in Britain today with some kind of gender “issue”. Well, I just sat there shaking my head, because the simple fact is: there aren’t.
We are told that one in 10 of the population are gay, that one in 10 have cancer, that one in 10 support Isis, that one in 10 think Corbyn’s doing a good job, that one in 10 have a criminal record, that one in 10 are living below the poverty line and that one in 10 were born elsewhere, and now we are expected to believe that one in 100 are transgender. Well, if that’s so, it means that — according to my maths — fewer than three in 10 are healthy, straight, honest, British people who don’t want their genitals altered. And that’s obviously rubbish.
But then I thought of something. Let’s just say for a moment that one in 1,000 are transgender. Or one in 100,000. Or even that it’s actually just one. Let’s say that there is one person out there who is a woman living in a man’s body, or the other way around.
I started to imagine what life might be like for the poor soul. It would be dreadful. Absolutely awful. And all they seem to want to make their life better is a third gender option box on official documents. That’s not really the end of the world for everyone else, is it?
Last edited by ALi-B; 27 January 2016 at 01:32 PM.
#14
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes, very good
I am passionate about free speech - as he says when you ban free speech, next is "thought crime"
I would have liked to have discussed with him on his points regarding "consensus"
I am not sure I entirely agree on that point - which seems to be that "consensus" in itself is meaningless
whilst I agree with him if his point is simply about the right to speak out against a consensus, then fine
but consensus is important, it means I don't have to become an oncologist to accept the cigarette / cancer link, I accept the consensus
and he does make the interesting point regarding the extent of ones own knowledge - i.e. how do you know the earth is flat, revolves around the sun and evolution explains the diversity of life on the planet
there is a lot about the natural world that you simply have to accept
I am pretty sure a committed and intelligent creationist could out argue the average person on evolution - "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys",
"why are there no transitional fossils"
"how does a mouse "evolve" into a bat when at some stage the "legs" would be useless as legs and useless as wings - what advantage does that give"
and just because a creationist could "win" that argument in no way implies that the general scientific consensus is wrong - it simply says the person he is arguing against does not fully understand how evolution works
and why should they - I doubt many people could give a reasonable account of the evolutionary theory faced with opposition from a creationist
people simply don't have the time (and nor should they be required to) become experts in all these different fields
I am passionate about free speech - as he says when you ban free speech, next is "thought crime"
I would have liked to have discussed with him on his points regarding "consensus"
I am not sure I entirely agree on that point - which seems to be that "consensus" in itself is meaningless
whilst I agree with him if his point is simply about the right to speak out against a consensus, then fine
but consensus is important, it means I don't have to become an oncologist to accept the cigarette / cancer link, I accept the consensus
and he does make the interesting point regarding the extent of ones own knowledge - i.e. how do you know the earth is flat, revolves around the sun and evolution explains the diversity of life on the planet
there is a lot about the natural world that you simply have to accept
I am pretty sure a committed and intelligent creationist could out argue the average person on evolution - "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys",
"why are there no transitional fossils"
"how does a mouse "evolve" into a bat when at some stage the "legs" would be useless as legs and useless as wings - what advantage does that give"
and just because a creationist could "win" that argument in no way implies that the general scientific consensus is wrong - it simply says the person he is arguing against does not fully understand how evolution works
and why should they - I doubt many people could give a reasonable account of the evolutionary theory faced with opposition from a creationist
people simply don't have the time (and nor should they be required to) become experts in all these different fields
Now, I accept that there's a priori knowledge that whilst not empirically testable remains fact. We can't observe Big Bang (the actual event), but we can say with a high degree of certainty (background radiation etc.) that it occurred. We can also say with an even higher degree of certainty that life on Earth as observed today was brought forth by a process of evolution (despite the ongoing success of our chimpanzee cousins). The right that needs and ought to be defended and what challenges today's zeitgeist of scientism is that which is proposed by scientists like Alister McGrath and Francis Collins (the latter became friends with Hitchens whilst attempting to treat Hitchens' cancer). They say yes, Big Bang occurred and yes, evolution is fact and that God exists and that Jesus saves. Hitchens' point was that a position like this attacks the consensus (in this case the absurd either/or nature of the science/theism debate) and because it does this it should be offered special protection in order to ensure that the consensus is rigorously tested. It is only when the prevailing worldview has stood up to said tests that it can rightfully take its place in the hall of a priori knowledge.
#15
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hitchens's address 2006; how very prophetic. He's so right and the oft quoted 'free speech' has long been banished from our society.
I sit on a board where the subject of transgender has been at the forefront of several meeting agendas. During the meetings (when minutes are being taken) we play lip service to this nonsense. However, talking privately the general opinion is that it's a load of total bollocks on which we should not be wasting a moment of our time. If all who feel this way spoke their minds then this would be kicked into touch where it belongs - but who speaks first?!
I sit on a board where the subject of transgender has been at the forefront of several meeting agendas. During the meetings (when minutes are being taken) we play lip service to this nonsense. However, talking privately the general opinion is that it's a load of total bollocks on which we should not be wasting a moment of our time. If all who feel this way spoke their minds then this would be kicked into touch where it belongs - but who speaks first?!
I have a friend with whom I went to school (and with whom I smoked large quantities of pot) who has, in the last couple of years, changed her name from Ben to Carrie. And yes, she's had her todger removed. She was understandably horrified by Clarkson's comments and went so far as to suggest that comments such as his ought to be legislated against. Yet she (and her friends) will also say that the religious are stupid and bigoted (unless that religious person is a Muslim; it's really not de rigueur to criticise Muslims in the died-red-hair and Doc Martins community). The human capacity for gross hypocrisy is unbounded.
Anyway, back to Hitchens. What a speech! The man was a champion of free thought and expression. He got things wrong, but boy did he articulate those wrong things well!
Last edited by JTaylor; 28 January 2016 at 10:49 AM.
#16
Scooby Regular
being wrong actually moves one further to the truth / answer (whatever you want to call it)
the physicist Wolfgang Pauli,- was once given a paper to look from one of his students
he famously remarked - "it's not even wrong"
and again to a colleague
"What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not."
that is in essence the definition of pseudo science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
my condolences to Carrie btw (or the todger at least)
and for what's its worth I read entire Clarkson article (ALi posted)
I can't see much that is any more offensive than the usual stuff he comes out with
the thing with Clarkson his - and what I think makes him such a *** is not what he says, yes he's boorish with views stuck in the 50's much like my Father, who during an Xmas lunch, used the term "mongrel" to describe a person with downs syndrome (he simply does not know any better)
no with Clarkson - I suspect he is a MASSIVE hypocrite, I suspect that if someone planned to build a high speed road outside his house - or increase the speed limit in his village etc etc
he would be right at the top of the barricades, banging on about HIS rights
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 28 January 2016 at 12:54 PM.
#17
Scooby Regular
and the point about science / theism is simply unresolvable
one is based on evidence the other faith
both perfectly valid viewpoints imo (within reason) - just should not be confused
in some ways evangelical scientism is as dangerous and alienating as evangelical religion
one is based on evidence the other faith
both perfectly valid viewpoints imo (within reason) - just should not be confused
in some ways evangelical scientism is as dangerous and alienating as evangelical religion
#18
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
getting things wrong in science is perfectly acceptable - even encouraged
being wrong actually moves one further to the truth / answer (whatever you want to call it)
the physicist Wolfgang Pauli,- was once given a paper to look from one of his students
he famously remarked - "it's not even wrong"
and again to a colleague
"What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not."
that is in essence the definition of pseudo science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
being wrong actually moves one further to the truth / answer (whatever you want to call it)
the physicist Wolfgang Pauli,- was once given a paper to look from one of his students
he famously remarked - "it's not even wrong"
and again to a colleague
"What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not."
that is in essence the definition of pseudo science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
my condolences to Carrie btw (or the todger at least)
and for what's its worth I read entire Clarkson article (ALi posted)
I can't see much that is any more offensive than the usual stuff he comes out with
the thing with Clarkson his - and what I think makes him such a *** is not what he says, yes he's boorish with views stuck in the 50's much like my Father, who during an Xmas lunch, used the term "mongrel" to describe a person with downs syndrome (he simply does not know any better)
no with Clarkson - I suspect he is a MASSIVE hypocrite, I suspect that if someone planned to build a high speed road outside his house - or increase the speed limit in his village etc etc
he would be right at the top of the barricades
and for what's its worth I read entire Clarkson article (ALi posted)
I can't see much that is any more offensive than the usual stuff he comes out with
the thing with Clarkson his - and what I think makes him such a *** is not what he says, yes he's boorish with views stuck in the 50's much like my Father, who during an Xmas lunch, used the term "mongrel" to describe a person with downs syndrome (he simply does not know any better)
no with Clarkson - I suspect he is a MASSIVE hypocrite, I suspect that if someone planned to build a high speed road outside his house - or increase the speed limit in his village etc etc
he would be right at the top of the barricades
I actually found Clarkson's piece quite amusing (in the way a naughty schoolboy would), but then I realised that it wasn't a parody, but an actual point of view. And then I realised that it wasn't a point of view, but a playing out of a non-pc-laugh-a-minute role that he's carved out for himself and seems hell bent on maintaining. I suspect that if he was a poor, black, vegetarian lesbian the 'joke' would be overlooked, but because he's a middle-class, heterosexual white man he can expect no other label to be pressed upon him than that of a bigot.
#19
Scooby Regular
and I would argue that 'liberal intervention' often become evangelical in tone, that is the issue I have with it
and as I said, to me evangelicalism is often the problem - the certainly that you* are right (takes us back to the consensus topic)
*you as in the royal "you"
I shan't pass on your condolences to Carrie, she seems to have had her sense of humour incinerated along with the redundant genitalia.
I actually found Clarkson's piece quite amusing (in the way a naughty schoolboy would), but then I realised that it wasn't a parody, but an actual point of view. And then I realised that it wasn't a point of view, but a playing out of a non-pc-laugh-a-minute role that he's carved out for himself and seems hell bent on maintaining. I suspect that if he was a poor, black, vegetarian lesbian the 'joke' would be overlooked, but because he's a middle-class, heterosexual white man he can expect no other label to be pressed upon him than that of a bigot.
I actually found Clarkson's piece quite amusing (in the way a naughty schoolboy would), but then I realised that it wasn't a parody, but an actual point of view. And then I realised that it wasn't a point of view, but a playing out of a non-pc-laugh-a-minute role that he's carved out for himself and seems hell bent on maintaining. I suspect that if he was a poor, black, vegetarian lesbian the 'joke' would be overlooked, but because he's a middle-class, heterosexual white man he can expect no other label to be pressed upon him than that of a bigot.
nothing Clarkson could say would offend me tbh, but I appreciate I have the luxury of being white and middleclass, and pretty comfortable in myself and what I have achieved in life
And like you I find it amusing - in the same way I find it amusing when my 15 years old son, Orlando calls me a failure and says I have no friends and that I obviously get bullied at work :-)
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 28 January 2016 at 01:32 PM.
#20
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
in some ways evangelical scientism is as dangerous and alienating as evangelical religion
* Mark 16:15 ESV
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation."
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes I know (apologies for broadening it a bit), but I think point stands about being wrong - it moves you further on if nothing else
and I would argue that 'liberal intervention' often become evangelical in tone, that is the issue I have with it
and as I said, to me evangelicalism is often the problem - the certainly that you* are right (takes us back to the consensus topic)
*you as in the royal "you"
as you point out it is often about "power"
nothing Clarkson could say would offend me tbh, but I appreciate I have the luxury of being white and middleclass, and pretty comfortable in myself and what I have achieved in life
And like you I find it amusing - in the same way I find it amusing when my 15 years old son, Orlando calls me a failure and says I have no friends and that I obviously get bullied at work :-)
and I would argue that 'liberal intervention' often become evangelical in tone, that is the issue I have with it
and as I said, to me evangelicalism is often the problem - the certainly that you* are right (takes us back to the consensus topic)
*you as in the royal "you"
as you point out it is often about "power"
nothing Clarkson could say would offend me tbh, but I appreciate I have the luxury of being white and middleclass, and pretty comfortable in myself and what I have achieved in life
And like you I find it amusing - in the same way I find it amusing when my 15 years old son, Orlando calls me a failure and says I have no friends and that I obviously get bullied at work :-)
#22
Scooby Regular
On the contrary, and I suspect you've bought in to a false narrative, science and faith, whilst not to be confused, can be and are being synchronised. If you're to challenge this (and I hope you will) you go up against a growing number of eminent scientists and theologians in the emergent field of theistic evolution.
I accept some (maybe a lot) scientist have "faith" of some sort, it is after all human nature (and explainable by science!!)
and to my surprise my Mother was able to fill a reasonably sized crematorium when she passed away a few years ago
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 28 January 2016 at 08:23 PM.
#23
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not sure what synchronised means
I accept some (maybe a lot) scientist have "faith" of some sort, it is after all human nature (and explainable by science!!)
and to my surprise my Mother was able to fill a reasonably sized crematorium when she passed away a few years ago
I accept some (maybe a lot) scientist have "faith" of some sort, it is after all human nature (and explainable by science!!)
and to my surprise my Mother was able to fill a reasonably sized crematorium when she passed away a few years ago
#25
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually I will link to the video here from the banana thread
It sits better here
Here is why science is so important
11 -- Creation 'Science' Made Easy - YouTube
It sits better here
Here is why science is so important
11 -- Creation 'Science' Made Easy - YouTube
#27
Scooby Regular
And why, because we have an assault on science and rational thinking
Coming mainly from the U.S. (I will leave ISIS out, they are simply murderous lunatics )
And they use the same playbook that Ken ham does
So whilst Ken ham talks palpable nonesense, the techniques and logical fallacies he uses are being activity used by U.S. Politicians, and some UK ones sadly
To denegrate science and scientist
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 28 January 2016 at 09:44 PM.
#28
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh get passed him
And why, because we have an assault on science and rational thinking
Coming mainly from the U.S. (I will leave ISIS out, they are simply murderous lunatics )
And they use the same playbook that Ken ham does
So whilst Ken ham talks palpable nonesense, the techniques and logical fallacies he uses are being activity used by U.S. Politicians, and some UK ones sadly
To denegrate science and scientist
And why, because we have an assault on science and rational thinking
Coming mainly from the U.S. (I will leave ISIS out, they are simply murderous lunatics )
And they use the same playbook that Ken ham does
So whilst Ken ham talks palpable nonesense, the techniques and logical fallacies he uses are being activity used by U.S. Politicians, and some UK ones sadly
To denegrate science and scientist
#29
Scooby Regular
He makes an interesting point about try to understanding the metaphorical meaning of Genesis
I have problems with this though, (interpretations of meanings) not least because you seem to afford yourself that luxury but deny it to followers of the Koran - I hesitate to make that point because I don't really want to go there)
Anyway let me ask you something
I believe, that within my children's lifetime humanity will discover very very compelling evidence of life (most probably in simple form) on other worlds
What would that do to Christianity - the shattering of the uniqueness meme
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 28 January 2016 at 10:02 PM.
#30
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I understand the concepts of literal and metherphoric interpretations of the text
He makes an interesting point about try to understanding the metaphorical meaning of Genesis
I have problems with this though, (interpretations of meanings) not least because you seem to afford yourself that luxury but deny it to followers of the Koran - I hesitate to make that point because I don't really want to go there)
Anyway let me ask you something
I believe, that within my children's lifetime humanity will discover very very compelling evidence of life (most probably in simple form) on other worlds
What would that do to Christianity - the shattering of the uniqueness meme
He makes an interesting point about try to understanding the metaphorical meaning of Genesis
I have problems with this though, (interpretations of meanings) not least because you seem to afford yourself that luxury but deny it to followers of the Koran - I hesitate to make that point because I don't really want to go there)
Anyway let me ask you something
I believe, that within my children's lifetime humanity will discover very very compelling evidence of life (most probably in simple form) on other worlds
What would that do to Christianity - the shattering of the uniqueness meme
With regards life on other planets, I subscribe to the Fermi paradox.