VW and the emissions scandal
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VW and the emissions scandal
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...air-violations
I expect this has been going on for a while. I wonder how many other manufactures are going to fall foul.
Reminds me of Nvidia vs ATI in the graphics card market where the drivers detected when benchmarking software was being used & changed output & cards behaviour.
BMW up next?
I expect this has been going on for a while. I wonder how many other manufactures are going to fall foul.
Reminds me of Nvidia vs ATI in the graphics card market where the drivers detected when benchmarking software was being used & changed output & cards behaviour.
BMW up next?
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Enginetuner.co.uk Plymouth Dyno Dynamics RR Engine machining and building EcuTek SimTek mapping
Posts: 3,662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't forget, this is our meat and two veg.
#12
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
It's one thing to express doubt over published performance figures, made under ideal conditions with a car specially prepared for the process, but surely it's another matter altogether when software manipulates emmisions during routine checks? Not even the most cynical of us can have suspected that. Perhaps some other manufacturers are now waiting for the hammer to fall too.
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Enginetuner.co.uk Plymouth Dyno Dynamics RR Engine machining and building EcuTek SimTek mapping
Posts: 3,662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd say there isn't a manufacturer out there who doesn't "cheat" at some level.
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sunny Abu Dhabi!
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's one thing to express doubt over published performance figures, made under ideal conditions with a car specially prepared for the process, but surely it's another matter altogether when software manipulates emmisions during routine checks? Not even the most cynical of us can have suspected that. Perhaps some other manufacturers are now waiting for the hammer to fall too.
Car ECUs have been able to detect fuel consumption tests for years - allegedly!
When car is started at certain outside temperature (20degrees C) then gently driven in a certain way - I heard that ECU goes into fuel saving mode - as it thinks car is being tested.
I also understand the bonnet open switch is detected by ECUs - as certain tests are done with the bonnet open.
This is going to get messy very quickly!
Cheers
Steve
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Enginetuner.co.uk Plymouth Dyno Dynamics RR Engine machining and building EcuTek SimTek mapping
Posts: 3,662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Enginetuner.co.uk Plymouth Dyno Dynamics RR Engine machining and building EcuTek SimTek mapping
Posts: 3,662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course, it doesn't matter what the manufacturers do, as the likes of we just go right in there and change it all anyway!
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Enginetuner.co.uk Plymouth Dyno Dynamics RR Engine machining and building EcuTek SimTek mapping
Posts: 3,662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#21
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scoobynet
Posts: 5,387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone seen details of exactly how they are cheating the test?
I keep reading about when the cars think they are under test conditions they inject urea into the emissions before the CAT so some of the nitrogen oxide is converted into ammonia, but this would imply a hidden tank of urea somewhere to just beat testing over the cars estimated lifetime? Surely that wouldn't be an option as it would be too obvious to spot?
If its purely software, what is the detriment of the reduced nitrogen oxide emissions? Much higher fuel consumption? Can't be reduced power as I'd imagine rolling road tests would be very similar to emissions tests (i.e. full throttle at stationary) so that would show up if BHP dropped. Anyone know?
I keep reading about when the cars think they are under test conditions they inject urea into the emissions before the CAT so some of the nitrogen oxide is converted into ammonia, but this would imply a hidden tank of urea somewhere to just beat testing over the cars estimated lifetime? Surely that wouldn't be an option as it would be too obvious to spot?
If its purely software, what is the detriment of the reduced nitrogen oxide emissions? Much higher fuel consumption? Can't be reduced power as I'd imagine rolling road tests would be very similar to emissions tests (i.e. full throttle at stationary) so that would show up if BHP dropped. Anyone know?
#24
Scooby Regular
Anyone seen details of exactly how they are cheating the test?
I keep reading about when the cars think they are under test conditions they inject urea into the emissions before the CAT so some of the nitrogen oxide is converted into ammonia, but this would imply a hidden tank of urea somewhere to just beat testing over the cars estimated lifetime? Surely that wouldn't be an option as it would be too obvious to spot?
If its purely software, what is the detriment of the reduced nitrogen oxide emissions? Much higher fuel consumption? Can't be reduced power as I'd imagine rolling road tests would be very similar to emissions tests (i.e. full throttle at stationary) so that would show up if BHP dropped. Anyone know?
I keep reading about when the cars think they are under test conditions they inject urea into the emissions before the CAT so some of the nitrogen oxide is converted into ammonia, but this would imply a hidden tank of urea somewhere to just beat testing over the cars estimated lifetime? Surely that wouldn't be an option as it would be too obvious to spot?
If its purely software, what is the detriment of the reduced nitrogen oxide emissions? Much higher fuel consumption? Can't be reduced power as I'd imagine rolling road tests would be very similar to emissions tests (i.e. full throttle at stationary) so that would show up if BHP dropped. Anyone know?
maybe it only affects cars with the adblue systems
adblue is basically cows **** (so I have been told)
a colleague said his Audi 3.0 TDI has to have the adblue tank refiled every whatever 1000 miles
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pottering around ...
Posts: 3,573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scoobynet
Posts: 5,387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sounds like pre-2015 cars may have a small tank of urea (adblue) which is injected only when it thinks the car is under test conditions, so may require only a very small amount to cover the cars tests over its lifetime, but surely this can't be right? You'd have mechanics/breakers find the system and wondering what it was as it wouldn't be in the VW mechanics manuals! (chapter 7, 'replacing the emissions test cheating system'!)
And yeah from what I've read too, it pretty much is urine!
http://www.largus.fr/images/images/r...ercedes_ML.jpg
Last edited by Petem95; 22 September 2015 at 08:26 PM.
#28
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Yep, its the adblue. Its the bigger engined EU6 cars that tend to have it...BMW X5s, S class mercs etc.
BMWs will actually refuse to start if the adblue tank is empty or contaminated!
Its a farce really as its not enforced once the car has been sold: For example some bus operators as well as HGV operators are fitting bypass boxes that prevent their vehicles going into limp home when the Adblue tank is empty it also Means they never need to fill it either (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/17163...s=true&ff13=80 )The bus operators are also bypassing start/stop systems on new buses owing to the reliability problems. So much saving the planet
Last edited by ALi-B; 22 September 2015 at 08:31 PM.
#29
Scooby Regular
Stuff like this has been going on for years on motorbikes. Not as sophisticated, but you only had to look at the torque curve in a certain gear at certain revs to see that the engine went quiet for the drive past noise test(s).