f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

He's off again.... talking and not doing.

Apparently according to our beloved leader UK Muslims are helping jihadis and communities must stop 'quietly condoning' barbaric ISIS.

Aye Camo, it's always someone else's fault isn't it?

I really would have hoped he would have realised the problem is a bit more complex than simply 'it's all the Muslims fault'.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Don't see many other denominations fighting for ISIS.
Do you?

It's how the Irish felt for 30 years.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think you're missing the point. I am taking about why a tiny minority of UK Muslims go and fight for ISIS, the motivation etc.

To say it's due to quiet condoning from the Muslim community is simplistic in the extreme.

dpb

Maybe write him a letter outlining your concerns

kevo10

Maybe if money and wealth was spread throughout the world more equally and to more people , those same people wouldnt have s many reasons to take action that they have. We are solucky in the western world to have what we have , we just dont know it

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Sounds like you're halfway to being brainwashed by IS yourself, if you think social inequality is an excuse to barbarically murder or enslave people by their thousands simply because they don't share the same medieval strain of religion as you.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

There is however a small part of what kev says that has some validity to it. We need to look beyond the simple for the reasons for these people wanting to join ISIS when they have everything on a plate for them here as the problem is not a simple one and the solution is not simple either.

For instance had the West not gone on a modern day crusade around the Muslim nations of the World in the last 20 years would the problem be as acute?

If these communities were better integrated would the problem be as acute?

If there were more employment opportunities for young people including young Muslims would the problem be as acute?

If the press and the government didn't demonise ALL Muslims over terrorism would the problem be as acute?

If we accept any of those as part of this (and I think they all have a part to play) then you can start to work on the thought patterns and ideologies at play here.

However it is far easier to hand the problem over to the Muslim communities with a 'this is your fault' message.... wise? Nope! Right? Nope!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I would ask you to do it for me, but as you are unable to string ten words together without major spelling and grammar issues maybe not?

Now why don't you go and play on the motorway!

RS_Matt

Safer for Cameron to blame the Bradford Police for providing ISIS with fresh souls.

dpb

Forget this trivia .



This is the real story of the day , if you want to rap the government, this is it







http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...96339352,d.ZGU

hodgy0_2

trying to find a reason is not in itself justification/excuse

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Sorry, but for anyone to suggest that even IS themselves have claimed that what they're doing is somehow intended as a protest against or an attempt to redress social injustice in the world is stretching credulity to one heck of an extreme.

kevo10

Im not in the least bit brainwashed thank you. Theres no excuse for carrying out atrocities like they do . but i just think its odd . that as the west has got richer , these groups have risen up and got stronger.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Have you looked at how much wealth is floating around in the Middle-East lately? More than half of the top 10 countries in the world with the biggest obesity problems are located in that region. Does that look a sign of poverty to you?

In any case, as already stated in my previous post, you're attributing motives to those groups that they themselves couldn't give a damn about, which really isn't far off what Cameron is warning against here.

kevo10

Yes, it is indeed stretching credulity to the extreme. But , given the right circumstances and motivation , what would give people the incentive to carry out such things. Who would have believed 80 years ago, that a single man could incite his people to do what they did in ww2?

kevo10

Yes, there is wealth in those regions, but not everyone is wealthy, a big difference. The wealthy dont spread their wealth. Thats how they stay wealthy and at the top.

dpb

religion and desperation has always mopped up unfortunates ,


But the compliant that we are becoming more like America gives the game away imo.

Space cadets looking for a thrill / attention , not unlike our op

kevo10

And, while on the subject of brainwashing, some could say the same about the reprting of atrocities carried out by terrorists, not Muslims. Terrorists are terrorists, whatever background and religion they come from

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

The majority of the real poor and downtrodden in those countries are the immigrant maids, labourers and so on, working for a pittance or in 45C heat all day. It's funny how very few of them have run off to join the Caliphate.

kevo10

[QUOTE=dpb;11700494]religion and desperation has always mopped up unfortunates ,


. Which is exactly my point. Given the right motivation and circumstances , who knows what suffering we could carry out . Protection of family,property or possessions , what buttons could people press to make us carry out heinous crimes ????

kevo10

So , if theyre all doing that , and enjoying doing it , where do they come from?

kevo10

In reality, we have no figures , given as proof, as to how many and from which areas, these terrorists come from. If it was that easy, i daresay it would have been blown t kingdom come by now

hodgy0_2

sure, and I am not saying your average IS recruit or indeed leader would say they are fighting for an increase in the welfare bill

but on a "Global" scale the relationship between money/wealth and power cannot be ignored

It is Saudi Arabia that supplies both the money and the Religious "cover" for a lot of Arab extremism/terrorism and does so in the strategic belief that it bolsters their internal power - and hence cements the unbelievable wealth for the ruling elite (which is simply a result of access to Oil - nothing they have actually done to positively benefit mankind)

our active support for Saudi Arabia shows our hypocrisy in these weasel words by the PM

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Surely the major problem out there is that the west has destabilised the whole region, aiding the removal of despotic rulers for no-one much, and allowing the previous strong rule to fraction.

What did we expect to happen? the idea that you can force western style democracy and capitalism onto Muslim states is ridiculous, they want neither.

dpb

More difficult to explain away al shabab and boko Haram

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Oh the irony of the troll with over 39000 jibes to his post count

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Very true Jeff and part of it, but I am more concerned on this thread with what drives a small minority of British Muslims to join ISIS given it must be utterly alien to the life they know here.

lozgti1

Cannot think of one good thing that would make me want to become a psychco murderer.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Ah, I see your point.

Dunno, really......I suppose if I were living in France and someone destabilised the UK government, causing everything that the UK has stood for for years to be wiped away, I might feel strongly enough to come back and fight it.

hodgy0_2

yes and that destabilisation has been undertaken with the support of some of the Middle Eastern countries/rulers