pflowers

When I first decided to run my own business way back in 1992, a wise man told me the biggest issue would always be staff - and how right he was!

The staff I am currently looking for need no experience just common sense and willing to work outdoors. All training is given on the job, so good people tend to develop into the job, using new skills to go with any existing.

We usually get people in for informal chats and any hopefuls are then asked to come in for a trial day and go from there.

It doesn't help that I live in an area with a high concentration of no hopers who come for interviews but really don't want the job as life is too comfortable on the benefits.

It's a minimum wage job but obviously the right people would be rewarded in time.

Anyone involved in recruitment or have any experience on how to weed people out?

Chip

Is a trial day really long enough. I'd try them out for a month at least before employing them.

pflowers

Thanks, that's a fair point. The problem I have is that I really don't want to waste a month (either time or salary) only to find someone is actually useless.

There must be a way of testing a persons character rather than just relying on them saying the right thing at an interview.

dpb

Keep em on trial for six months, zero hours contract







..then wonder why they've an attitude and prefer their play station

ScoobyWon't

Without knowing what sort of industry or job role you are looking to fill, it's a little harder to make targeted suggestions.

Are there any Situational Judgement tests or similar you can set? On-line tests? Something that they need to have a little dedication to complete in advance, so you can see if they really want a job.

pflowers

Thanks, basically we are an outdoor activity centre - Quad Biking & Paintball.

The only criteria relevant to our industry is to be hard working and good with customers, everything else we can train.

What I am looking to weed out is the people who seem keen and competent but don't want the job.

Carnut

Where are you advertising?
If not already, try putting some adverts in outdoor stores and off road bike and quad stores.

Turbohot

Find a way of recruiting from outside your area, if the area folks are showing themselves to be useless? This has been applied on national level, you can apply it on your local level. Yes, it causes an irrational uproar from the ones who didn't want to do it but can't see an outsider doing it and reaping the benefits out of it. But you have to look after your business, and that would give a kick up those useless @rses. Have only fixed term contracts so that someone who makes an effort to come up and down to you from outside knows that you don't want to tie them in a business which provides just the customer service experience, and nothing else. I know that it's a great asset, but realistically, a CV needs a bit more to develop itself than just 'good to the punters at a paintballing place'.

It is seen that the people with commitment, zeal and confidence would also like to better themselves by moving on. They don't like to spend their lifetime with a business that allows limited stimulation and limited wage.

Have time limited placements / apprenticeships for Customer Service NVQs or even Sports Science undergraduates from some nearby university so that you can still have your job done for minimum wage and they get some experience of working at your quad biking and paintballing firm? That's if their university finds your work suitable enough for their learning and stimulation, though. I don't think these degree engaged people would like to stay forever with you, but an odd one may do; depending what incentive you have for them and what future progression you may offer to them.

And yes, as Carnut says, advertise and right places. School leavers seem to be another bet, so passing your details to your local Careers whoever would help. We have Careers Wales in here. Their reps go into schools to offer options for the school leavers. You may get some that want to work, because they've never been on benefits, so they don't know how good it is to be on them. Also, after leaving school, they'll get bored sh7tless. So, they might want to engage and do a reasonable time with you; for the minimum wage. Not each of them you could upgrade within your organisation.

We have a business in our local. Although our area isn't full of benefits loving people, but as the owner only pays the minimum wage, he engages young staff and knows that his staff turnover will always remain high. He has developed his capacity by keeping up with various alliances e.g. Jobcentre, Careers Wales etc. to keep turning them over, and he chills out. he doesn't need a long lasting loyalty, and he's ruthless when it comes to sacking skivers. He has some middle-aged, stable managers to run his business, though; that he can rely on.

Matteeboy

I've done my fair share of working in "menial" jobs (demolition labouring, farm labouring, etc) and it's amazing how well regarded you become if you just do simple stuff like turn up on time and actually work without taking a break every half an hour.

I've also recruited (for a construction recruitment outfit) low level jobs and a HUGE amount don't turn up - a proper slack work ethic.

However your company sounds interesting which has got to help - I'd trial for a week to see how they fare and offer training (HNDs or whatever they're called now) to those that are decent. Treat them well, try and have a laugh and people WILL stick around.

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

pay peanuts get monkeys, what do you expect?

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Put something along the lines of "aptitude test" in the job advert.

Works wonders in stopping Billy no interest from turning up, people hate tests so you'll only get the people willing to work to get the job. I'd also be looking for some skills to list, rather than say no experience, no experience means the job centre will latch onto it and send everyone with the threat of stopping their benefits.

Required:
At least three years working in a customer care role
Full driving license


An advantage:
Experience with group organisation
Health and safety qualification


etc

Turbohot

Even for peanuts, some employers want to own their employee's life!

Employment is a two-way process. You pay, and they work. Some employers do think that they're paying the wage (no mattrewr how bad it is), so they're gods. You can't have your employees sweating blood for peanuts. No person in right mind would do that, unless they have 'low confidence' issues; stemming from wherever.

Matteeboy

Plenty of eastern Europeans work their butts off for the minimum wage.
It's actually quite high. I suspect a big pay rise would cost the business too much

Turbohot

That's why I said that the outsider applicants for the OP might be one of the options. He might as well develop a Polish force. Proper citizens don't want to be working their butts off for a minimum wage.

pflowers

Thanks, mostly very valid points that I agree with.

However with regards to the minimum wage, the job needs no skill other than a good work ethic. The right person would develop in the job and have great prospects for promotion and a much higher salary.

When I started working I earned 75p an hour, the majority of this went to my mum for house keeping and to run a car to get to work. I had nothing left, however I stuck at it and two years later was running my own department with a company car and a good salary.

pflowers

I'm afraid in my experience it's simply not true, the majority of SME business owners look after good staff, both in working conditions and salary. They need good staff for their business to succeed so will do whatever it takes to keep them.

There is a massive attitude problem today with work ethic. I've had staff who will happily turn up late every day without even so much as a sorry. When they do finally arrive they then need a break and a coffee of course wanting to discuss the torment of their 2 mile commute. It's easy to say just give them a warning or sack them but who's going to replace them? The next Is likely to be as bad but can't do the job either.

Turbohot

I'm with you on your experience, pflowers. But there is a polar opposite existing as well. There're plenty of very exploiting and slave labouring employers around.

pflowers

So do people really have the view that a take home salary of about £240 a week is a poor wage for a 21 year old who lives at home?

ScoobyWon't

Based on how many hours per week?

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

If salary is the issue with the people starting work you can say after a time period bonuses can be added to make up the wage which obviously is on your discretion. Bonuses obviously mean if you have to get rid of someone you don't have to pay higher severance pays as they are still on minimum wage.

Turbohot

To my calculation, it's for 37 hours at the minimum wage of £6.50 per hour. You have to do 7.5 hours over 5 days. I don't know it anyone needs to do weekends as well, or if the weekends are mandatory in that business; with the days off within the week.

One will have to take away NI and tax as well, and then one will know what to take home.

pflowers

£240 a week is a take home pay after tax and NI deductions. Approx 37 hours a week working Wednesday to Sunday.

pflowers

Salary isn't the issue in most cases, thinking they are doing me a favour by coming to work is.

We also pay commission based on paintball sales, this can be an extra £20-30 a week in busy times. Subsidised food if they want it. 20 days holiday plus extras over Christmas plus bank holidays.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Maybe not such a bad wage for a 21 year old living at home, but not so good for a 21 year old that is living alone.

Wage aside, I do think work ethic is a problem with a lot of people, and from what I see at work, it's not something directly linked with age. I'm not sure what it is, because I do the same low paid job as everyone else there, yet somehow I still manage to give my best (most of the time) when so many others take the **** to be blunt.

One thing that has been touched on, on this thread is a bonus. Now, I personally am not a fan because if people are being paid to do a job, they should just do what is required for the pay. However, in low paid work, a bonus could be just that little added incentive for staff to stick at it, and put the effort in. I wouldn't do it as an overly regular thing as it will just be seen as topping up wages, and what you want is for people to have to turn up on time, not be off sick, etc. etc. for the long haul, giving a weekly/monthly small bonus may not achieve that. Give perhaps, a reasonable sum, every six months. Set the criteria for what is required in that period to achieve the bonus, and if they don't meet it, they don't get it. (it is at your discretion if you allow for exceptional circumstances-I probably would).

Carnut

Seems OK I'd of thought, especially when taking into account bank holidays, bonuses and the prospect of a increase.

In the adverts, do you explain it's £240 take home with extras and the opportunity of a increase. How about you put a time line to the increase, you could say in 6 months it will go to x amount, I'd imagine that would be enough time to see if their a **** or not.

Try avoiding the job centre IMO if you can, I'd much rather someone see my advert in a paper etc and ring me direct. That should get rid of the job centre sending people that don't want to be there and you can talk one to one and most likely make a choice on the phone whether to interview them or not.

Try not to down play the job, explain there's no experience needed but also say it's a fun job that gets you outdoors in a fun environment. I would also avoid saying 'minimum wage' say £240 take home it looks better.

pflowers

Thank you, I do like the idea of a bonus say every three months based on being on time, no sick days etc etc. Its not something we have done before but it could be a great incentive.

pflowers

Thanks, yes the job centre usually sends the people who really don't want to work.

Following advice from another business owner, we are trying community pages on Facebook.
He says when people tag themselves in the advert it gives you the chance to view their profile, you can then get a good indication of the type of person they are before wasting any time interviewing them.

Carnut

A potential good use for Facebook

urban

iTrader: (1)

Totally agree, you must have good people.

We employ just over 60 staff, and right now I can say that we've almost gotten rid of all the 'bad' staff.

One past employee used to come to work late every day practically, then go get a cup of tea, followed by smoke break mid morning.
Used to be smoke break every hour or so until he was told enough was enough, and of course that was a fault

Dr Hu

Sounds like a fun job TBH - I would have loved a job like that when I was starting out.... would love to have it now too! hahahaha

Good Luck - shouldn't be too difficult to fill, my main worry would be getting people who dick around with your expensive equipment too much and break it!