warrenm2

27th Sept certainly not the best day for Mr Cameron. First off, he loses another MP to UKIP. Losing one could be seen as unfortunate, losing two appears careless.

Then in the same day, the "Minister for civil society" (WTF non-job is that?!) resigns due to being caught sending naughty pictures to women on the internet.

All this just before the Tory conference. It has the feel of the last days of the Tories in 1997. It makes me think of Napoleon asking about a general, "He may be good, but is he lucky?". It doesn't feel that Cameron is lucky or good. Will he even make it to the election?

And all this on top of probably the most lacklustre Labour conference anyone can rememeber. even the delegates didn't want to support Milliband, let alone the rest of the country.

Contrast all that with the scenes at the UKIP conference. It's clear who has the momentum and is leading the way, roll on the by-elections!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

He's been on TV this morning.
Apparently our young people need to be in education or work.

So THAT would be why his government changed the rules to give a maximum of four years funding to student loans, then?

Posstot.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

You forgot his taking us into another war with no definable milestones/goals or and no plan for what happens if we were to 'win'... Afghanistan 2 if you will.

The man is utterly clueless!

warrenm2

Yep, my bad

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

And no doubt Martin will be along soon to tell us why Cameron is wonderful

Norman Dog

iTrader: (1)

100% agree, Certainly will be getting my vote.

hodgy0_2

HI think truth be told he has been educated way beyond his ability

And regards Milliband, a good friend was telling me a story the other day

He went to a private social event, in honour of Milliband, I think a birthday party

Anyway, my friend was introduced to Ed, he did have a connection as he had lived next door to the Millibands (and both set of parents knew each other and shared the same experiences) and growing up in Primrose Hill they had been to the same school for a while, so assumed conversation would be quite easy

But no, his impression of Ed was someone who is socially clueless, a bit of a toss pot, and made a pathetic speech, his wife on the other hand was very impressive

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Ask yourself a question - forget their politics, but if you had to have a few drinks and generally socialise with any of Cameron, Clegg, Miliband or Farage which would it be? Hint.. it's the last one with Miliband being the one you'd probably decide to watch paint dry instead of meeting

Tbh that is all that is saving Cameron atm, Miliband is actually worse!

neil-h

interesting train of thought but I'm not sure on the answer.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I've just had this vision of a pub containing all these party leaders; Cameron is there in with the lardy-dar/clique crowd (ya, darling), ignorant to anyone outside of their circle, loudly name dropping and standing in the way so nobody can get past. Clegg is sat on his own nursing a half pint of weak shandy. Milliband is at a table with a bunch of geeks waiting to do the pub quizz (which was cancelled - but nobody bothered to tell them), and Farage is leaning on the bar telling tall stories about some shenanigan he played on Von-Rumpuy whilst in Europe with every person listening hanging on to every word.

neil-h

And everyone not listening wishing he'd shut the hell up.

hodgy0_2

Yes, I think I have already said Farage would make good company for a pint, better than the weak competition

I would imagine you stand a much better chance of him "standing his round"

And I have a sneaking admiration for smokers too (often more sociable)

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Hey Ali, free up some space in your PM iInbox will you? Cheers

Dingdongler

[quote=warrenm2;11525795]27th Sept certainly not the best day for Mr Cameron. First off, he loses another MP to UKIP. Losing one could be seen as unfortunate, losing two appears careless.

Then in the same day, the "Minister for civil society" (WTF non-job is that?!) resigns due to being caught sending naughty pictures to women on the internet.

All this just before the Tory conference. It has the feel of the last days of the Tories in 1997. It makes me think of Napoleon asking about a general, "He may be good, but is he lucky?". It doesn't feel that Cameron is lucky or good. Will he even make it to the election?

And all this on top of probably the most lacklustre Labour conference anyone can rememeber. even the delegates didn't want to support Milliband, let alone the rest of the country.

Contrast all that with the scenes at the UKIP conference. It's clear who has the momentum and is leading the way, roll on the by-elections![/quote]


Seriously? The so called 'scenes' were are bunch of UKIP supporters spunking their pants because a little known Tory back bencher defected.

Kindly remind me of the ground breaking UKIP policies that are leading the way and making momentum

Martin2005

Can't be **** to be fair.

If you think Farage is the answer, then good luck to you.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

He may not be THE answer, but he's more of an answer than the Tories ever will be. Mind you my cat would run the country better than Cameron so it's not saying a lot.

warrenm2

Yes really. I think you are underestimating the feeling out there, people hate Labour and Conservatives with a passion never seen before. As for the policies, its all of them that are straightforward and common sense that are showing that UKIP is concerned with Britain rather than naked self interest of the party. Where is Cameron, Clegg and Milliband on the issue of Rotherham for example? Who is pushing for Britain to rule itself?

Of course all of this could be mere opinion, which is why I said roll on the by elections. At the end of the day you can't argue with actual votes (unless they come in an envelope from Labour wards of course! )

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I saw Cameron yesterday telling us that the only way to get a referendum in the EU is to vote for him. He doesn't realise that by voting UKIP people are voting 'Out' in that referendum already and telling him they do not want to be blackmailed into voting for someone on the promise of something he will probably not deliver. The man is naive at best and deluded at worst!

neil-h

Now there's a campaign i could get behind. F1_fans cat for PM.

Dingdongler

You haven't really answered the question. I'm not asking you whether people 'hate' the main parties, you said that UKIP had all the momentum and is leading the way.

Apart from out of Europe, where are they leading the way to?

As disgusting as the whole episode was/is if you feel Rotherham even registers as being one of the most important issues facing the country you live in La La Land.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Interesting read.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/...litics-of-ppe/

Martin2005

Sometimes Warren leaves his residence in La La Land, and heads off to Cloud Cukoo Land for his holidays

Mouser

Two defectors joining another defector and a perv resigning probably says more about the individuals than anything else. Could you honestly trust any of them ever again?

warrenm2

And I think you're misunderstanding their appeal. They have lots of policies, no tax on minimum wage earners, cut in foreign aid, promotion of grammar schools etc etc. What used to be called common sense policies. You can watch all the announcements at ukip.tv for more details. But that's a bit beside the point. It's not one single thing that's driving people to UKIP, its a broad church accepting Labour, Lib dem and Tory voters as well as attracting previous non-voters. No other party can really claim that.

As for Rotherham, its not that specific incident per se, as the thread on here at the time discusses, but the lifting the lid on the PC-ness that allowed the rape of young white girls by Pakistani Muslims. And the 50 odd investigations around the country following up from that. That coming on top of the Trojan horse scandal, now with breaking news on Trojan Horse 2 in London, people rightly see it as a major immigration disaster, and I use it as a type of shorthand. And immigration IS the number one issue on the doorstep. Hope that clarifies

warrenm2

What is an MP to do if he no longer agrees with his parties policies? Carry on spouting the party line? Lying to his constituents that his party will do something when he knows they won't? Or leave and go somewhere that is in line with what he wants to fight for?

And then put it to the people to decide.

Those are the actions of honourable people in an era when people no longer seem to recognise them, an era of terminal cynicism so bad that it effects reasoning.

As for the perv, big deal, who hasn't sent a photo of themselves in a frog outfit and a kitchen implement to a woman on the internet?

Dingdongler

Ok, fine. Then how do you square that with the fact that voting for UKIP this time will actually mean you'll probably get Milliband?

In other words no referendum on Europe at all, higher taxes, even more PC-ness, more spending, lax attitude towards immigration etc.

Perhaps in another few cycles UKIP might become a party that could govern and if that is your intention then fine.

However the immediate effect of a significant vote for UKIP could mean all the things you hate becoming a lot worse under Milliband.

Hope that clarifies

warrenm2

That analysis (vote UKIP, get Labour) relies on the assumption that UKIP voters are just ex Tories. However we know that's not the case. UKIP is clearly taking votes off Labour, which is why the Heywood and Middleton by election is so interesting (personal prediction, narrow Labour win), but the most telling figure is the percentage UKIP increase. UKIP is starting from a very low base.

But UKIP voters don't care about Milliband, they see the LibLabCon as one blob, the same thing with a different tie. They don't believe Cameron's promise, don't rate his chances of winning (he failed against Brown after all), and after all the broken pledges have nothing but contempt for him. There is no way in a million years they will return. The idea of voting for a party they dont believe in and hate to stop another party they don't believe in and hate is an anathema to them when they can show support for a party that DOES represent their values, a party that is growing strongly and will have representation in Westminster on Oct 10th

And after Millibands useless conference speech, even Labour supporters don't fancy voting for him....

Mouser

Would you still use the word "honourable" if they had defected to Labour? I doubt it.

Why mention it then?

hodgy0_2

yes, I like Nick Cohen

I don't always agree with everything he writes - but he does a pretty good job most of the time

Funkii Munkii

Lets rewind 4 years, are things better under the Tory's than they were under Labour who left the country broke and on it's knees ? Yes by an absolute distance.

Milliband is an utter sap, as for Farage just a lot of hot air and bluster.