alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Ours is the indirect vented type, with a boiler just over 25 years old. It has hot tank in the bathroom, cold tank and central heating header tank in the roof space.
The heating is pumped, the hot water gravity fed.

I'd want a decent guaranteed boiler, the present one is around 70,000BTU, we'd need at least the same, maybe even larger.

Anyone recommend any boilers, or give me a clue as to how much I'd be looking at for an instal?

Any grants out there to get rid of older boilers?

PaulC72

We had one installed in June, 26Kw for our 3 bed semi, it's a Viessman on a usualy 5 year warranty but with a £200 ish cost to take it to 10 years.

German engineering at it's best ;-) for that 6 thermostatic values, removal of back boiler, complete flush and magna filter along with a new 20mm gas pipe etc it was 2k

We had several quotes and they ranged from 2k to 4.....shop around get a few prices and then have a little fun negotiating a better price.

Mog

Go for a Worcester Bosch boiler, one of their accredited installers will be able to give you a 8 year parts and labour warranty. The system will need bringing upto current building regs as in a fully pumped system, trv's, stats etc. Cost wise around £2500 + vat upwards very ball park. If you go on the Worcester website you can request a quote from the nearest 3 accredited installers, non worcester installers will only be able to offer 5 years warranty.

Mog

You did very well at £2k, is the 10 year warranty on the whole boiler and is the warranty covered 365 days a year with same day service with employed Viessman engineers if you dont mind me asking.

Also meant to say all Worcester boilers have a 10 year warranty on the heat exchanger regardless of the 5/8 year warranty.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Mog, what about Vaillant boilers? Or Buderus? My bro-in-law reckons Vaillant are the dog's whatnots.

Do any grants still exist to get shut of older boilers?

My system already has TRV's on, iirc, all rads but one, maybe two, and the heated towel rail.

Mog

Buderus are Worcester now but stick to Worcester.

Worcester and Vaillant are the market leaders. And priced the same, i moved over from Vaillant to Worcester because of the appaling queue time on the phone regarding any matter, 3 rings from Worcester and you are through, this is very important along with non argueing with any warranty claims.

Not aware of any grants at the moment.

The towel rail might need some work if it is on the gravity circuit at the moment.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

No, it's part of the pumped circuit, sort of used as an auxilliary rad, but for drying towels.

500

I used to install a lot of Worcesters but found that they started having problems a few years down the line so tend not to fit them anymore. I am not too keen on plastic inside them either although I do install some Viessmanns which are also plastic but much easier to work on and have a much better heat exchanger than the Worcester.

The Baxi Platinum has a 10 year warranty at the moment, if installed before the end of the year, a very good and quiet boiler, and all brass valves, stainless heat exchanger etc. I have fitted an Ideal Logic + in my own house but it's a bit noisier than I would like so would not recommend if it is not in a utility room etc. The Baxi aftercare is as good as the Worcester, especially if fitted by a trained installer as they will come out within 24 hours.

Vailliant are also good but their aftercare is a bit hit and miss and the parts are expensive.

No grants are available at the moment.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Thanks to all responders.
Any more comments welcome.

Mog

Stand to be corrected but think Worcester have won "Which" 2 years in a row for their whole range of boilers if that helps any.

PaulC72

Assuming my plumber would also do some of the warranty work then I am guessing yes, he is Viessman approved, I haven't delved into it too much TBH.

The heat exchanger is covered too and is stainless steel not Ali like some.

i guess sometimes how good they are is only found out when a problem occurs.

500

Yes Mog, they have their own engineers at Viessmann, and 10 year warranty extension http://www.viessmann.co.uk/en/inform...nty-offer.html

Backhanders? I am not on Which, but I believe that you have to click another button to show boilers from other manufacturers (other than Worcester)

Worcester used to be a good boiler but the reliability is somewhat questionable now (How can Which take this into account?) Imo, they sell on a past name, much the same as the British Gas monkeys. Have a look at their advertising budgets.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Worcester-Bosch for me (well, for the boiler at least). Yes its gone wrong a few times (two PCBs and a Fan...current PCB is now a revised part, which, touch wood, has been fine)....but when it does go wrong, I expect to get someone to fix it quickly and effectively. And that's what they do.

To put this experience into perspective, I recently had a Viessman unvented hot water tank fitted with the intention of getting one of their (highly recommended) boilers when the time came as we really should have a system boiler not a regular one (amongst other things that needed addressing). BIG mistake.

This tank has so far gone through two thermostats which have gone faulty (the last one giving me a huge gas bill as a thank you ), now that I don't mind too much, but what pissed me off is the aftersales support is shyte. Can't even get one of their 'engineers' out to take a look in any timely manner, and when they did eventually send someone - he had no parts on the van! F**king useless (bear in mind this is a new tank still under warranty).

Worcester - boiler went faulty a few times, but every time I've rung them in warranty and out of warranty they've been round and got the boiler working well within 24hours. The once it failed Sunday evening. I rang them at 10:00pm (expecting an answerphone), somebody answered, made an appointment the next morning. Next morning 9:00am engineer was there, new PCB fitted and boiler working before 11:00am....Now THAT's customer service!! Take note and pull your finger out pissy Viessmann.


In fact I'm so pissed at Viessman, I'm going to ebay it and fit a ACV smartline instead (70Kw coil - best heat recovery capeability on the market, so my condensing boiler will be more efficient) .

It'll cost me, I know. I'm just so glad I didn't buy their boiler!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

500....Ideal Logic...is that a re-badged Keston with a re-jigged flue arrangement?

I only ask as I was quoted for one of these and well, after googling Keston. It seems they have a troubled image problem on the internet!

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

The chap who did mine, Jeff. Who you suggested to me last year. What's he said as I'm about due the first boiler service on mine.

Surprised you didn't ask moi first dear boy.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Another vote for Baxi here, my house had a 20 odd year old one in when we moved in, it started playing up after a couple of years, I managed to keep it going DIY but struggled to get the parts on the 3rd occasion so opted for a new one on the recommendation of my plumber who has 40 odd years experience, had a problem with the fan in the first 6 months which we think was dodgy from the off as it was considerably louder than the replacement, apart from that it's been trouble free for 7yrs, which is more than can be said for the associated pumps, which I think were called Saurius or some such name, Avoid them at all costs as they seem to go wrong with great regularity, they have been swapped out for much better items that hopefully won't be giving us further winter woes. Touches wood.

500

Ideal bought Keston so that they can use the twin flue arrangement. The logic range is not a re badged Keston, it's the other way around. I wouldn't want an older Keston either, £625 for a pump

Fair enough, I have had one problem with a Viessmann boiler, the grundfos pump had gone down and they sorted the problem within 24 hours.

Are you putting a 70Kw boiler in to match the Cylinder

Madness that you would recommend a boiler that breaks down a lot but it's ok because they fix it quickly in warranty, or you have to go on one of their maintenance plans for the future. Surely better to have one that doesn't break down as often and has a longer warranty? and as good customer service

urban

iTrader: (1)

Must you have TRV's and stats etc if you simply replace a boiler?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Haven't had a response to my message left yet.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

TBH, I'd be doing this myself again, if it weren't for the gas-fitting regs.
Last time I did it to coincide with BG replacing my meter outside. I gave the guy £10 extra in his pocket to connect the new boiler to the gas pipe.

And yes, £10 was a fair bit of money in those days.........

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Lol you sound just like me.

PaulC72

i don't think so, we had our fitted during the drain down as we wanted to control the rooms as most are empty most of the time so no point in heating them.
The new stat was fitted with the boiler so I suppose it may depend on if the stat is compatible with the new boiler etc.

the thing that always makes me laugh is we have a wireless thermostat which comes off the wall, but have the main rad in the hallway without a TRV as it'll fight against the stat, but if I move the stat upstairs so I can say alter the temp in the morning it'll be in a room with a TRV making the previous argument invalid. (the one being a TRV not needed on the control rad)

Not that that has anything to do with what you asked but I just find it funny.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Try again mate as it took me a couple times to get through. Busy chap for good reasons I believe

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

No but the 24Kw (0.97M2 surface area) coil inside the cylinder in HW priority isn't working for me; I'm not impressed by the real-world recovery times - tank's taking too long to recover and the boiler is just sat there idling on minimum flame because the tank isn't absorbing enough heat from it (flow+return temps confirm this). The resolution is a even bigger tank !?! (its big enough as it is LOL ), or a better tank.... It doesn't help that I was missold a inferior tank...I should have had a vitocell 300V which has a larger 1.5M2 surface area coil, not a rebadged Gledhill. (long story)

Perhaps I should have said "up to 70KW"; The effective heating surafce area is 2.65M2 (2.7 times more heating area), which will make full use of pretty much any boiler's output. I could have a 70KW boiler if I wished (if I had a industrial supply fed to the house ) which would heat the water even quicker .

Is three times in seven years alot for a boiler to break down then? Two of which a was a manufacturing defect with the PCB software routine sticking in "air purge mode", on both counts that was replaced free of charge. The fan was out of warranty, again same quick fix and no complaints. I'd have another one, but WB don't make a 35Kw system boiler and their OEM controls aren't ideal for what I wanted.

I belive nothing in this world is 100% reliable, but expect quick resolution if/when something goes wrong, and parts to be updated if they are flawed (as the PCB was...the updated part no longer suffer this issue, plus addresses the sticky power switch button). No maintanence plan though, I just stick the amount an insurer "would charge" in my own kitty for incase.

Mog

FYI Worcester have just brought out a 32kw or it might be a 35kw system boiler with the new heat exchanger. They also have the Wave controller which is very similar to the Nest and controllable/programable if needed by an APP

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Thank Mog, the 35kW System is what I'll be needing once the extension is finished. Programmers I put on hold as I wanted to improve the system/zoning layout as currently it isn't ideal, but initially I was looking at the Honeywell Evohome (the updated version), or alternatively Viessman's controls (along with their system boiler) which seemed OK (before I suffered the after sales service).

I'm a bit OCD on this as I just want it all to be perfect; I'm trying to get a setup that will allow the central heating to run at lower flow/return temperature (to keep it condensing) whilst still being able to maintain the hot water, hence the need for a system boiler as the current boiler only has one demand input. That's the end goal at least (unless I sell up and move LOL ). The old AQ6000 controls did allow this in a roundabout way, but it isn't zonable.




Anyhoo, Sorry Alcazar, I'm hijacking. I've said my bit, I'll go away now

500

Ali, Sounds like the V200 range with weather compensation would suit you, just need to zone the house and do a full heat loss calculation and re size the rads to take into consideration the lower F&R temps to keep the return under the dew point.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

V200 as in the Vitotronic? Yeah I was going down that path until the tank debacle (already oversized the rads ready for it). Put short they aren't having any more of my money. Shame, as on paper at least it looked ok.

grey_boy

http://www.wrpm-uk.com/index.html

For Worcester Bosch boilers at trade prices try Whitmore Reans Plumbing supplies chap.

Get your model then call them, I bet my bottom dollar (or pound!) that they are the cheapest. I saved £300 on mine, and it was only a smallish boiler.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

How do I work out what SIZE boiler I need?

According to two plumbers so far, Worcester Bosch haven't been the same since they merged, Worcester were great, Bosch seems to be unreliable?

And I've asked three WB installers for quotes via their website, but had no contact. I might go direct.