Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Man-...ail/story.html

Going by posts on facebook, many people would have had this bloke hung, drawn and quartered if they knew who he was.

Me, I'm not so quick to jump to that conclusion.

It could be that his intentions were to ****** the child, but it's not out of the question that his account could equally be true, only he knows for sure.

Giving the benefit of the doubt here, if he was just trying to do a good turn, I would be gutted if I was him/a relative to see labels of pervert,scum etc. by people assuming the worst.

I understand that we aren't 100% trusting of people in this day and age, but if this was genuine and the reaction all over FB is representative of people overall, it won't be long before people will just all turn a blind eye to anyone that may be in need, for fear of being labelled the way this man has been, or worse.

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

I've watched this a few times on Facebook and to me it looks like he was trying to lead the child away in a very quick manner. You can clearly see the mother in front of the child plus the empty pushchair is a very big clue that she is in fact the child's mother.

Guilty?? It sure looks that way to me....

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I have too, and it seems depending on what clip you watch, the speed seems to vary. Not much, but a bit. That may be irrelevant though.

That aside, the man comes along whilst she appears to be a bit ahead of the child. Where she is, it is possible he can't see that the buggy she has is empty. Also, if he thinks the child was with another woman, he may have been hurrying to get him back to her.

At the end of the day, this man came forward himself (possibly before he was identified, possibly not as the images aren't exactly crystal clear) and the police were obviously satisfied with his explanation.

I'm not going to play judge and jury here, I just feel sad for him, if he was just a genuine bloke trying to do what he thought was the right thing at the time.

A 20-odd second CCTV clip doesn't really give the bigger picture.

CharlySkunkWeed

iTrader: (7)

I personally keep an eye on other peoples kids (sounds a bit wrong !) As alot of the time you see a random kid running around on their own and think "who does that belong to" as the parents either have lost them or they are just not bothered. I'm sure I've stopped the odd one running out of a shop etc when you see the parents have let the kid run on ahead , and the kids made a beeline for the door !

Dont know whether I'd take one by the hand and go walkabout , but I suppose instinct would take you into the neatest shop desk , which would look like you were taking the kid away if seen through suspicious eyes.

mtb_ed

iTrader: (4)

Unfortunately I believe the woman's lack of child awareness has become the genuine mans downfall! The kid is 5-10 metres behind and in my opinion if you were standing behind her would you know it's her child?

I see it everyday, women and men walking kids to school, shops etc either 10-20 metres in front or behind with their heads stuck in they're mobile phones! It's either an open ticket for the glitters of today or a mistake for an innocent by standard! Not doubt he'll be marked a peado but again blame the mothers neglect. Your children shouldn't within reason be out of sight!

RA Dunk

I'm on the fence, it does look a bit suspect TBH. But the blokes 80 and turned himself in when he didn't have too, that kind of says alot as well.

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

To be honest, the guy is of a different generation and to people of that kind of age, they just want to try and help people (generally), and I imagine he was just trying to help, I doubt there was any malice in it.

I know my 90yr/o nan gets some very strange looks for trying to help people, she isnt mentally unstable or out to "get" anyone, she is just genuinely nice and trying to help, which there isnt enough of in the world these days IMO. Back when they were been brought up everyone looked out for each other.

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

It looks to me like he did the wrong thing with the best of intentions. It almost happened to me.
Three years ago, I was standing looking in a shop window in my local shopping centre when a small child took a hold of my hand and said "I've lost my mummy, can you find her". I really wanted to help her but I instantly pulled my hand away and said I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to help. Luckily, I just spotted a mall security guard and told her he would help. I went over with her and told him what just happened. She was reunited with her panicking mother shortly after a tannoy announcement.
I have no idea what I'd have done if I hadn't seen the security guard coming. Would I have tried to help her and probably been labeled a pervert, or would I have done what's best for me and just walked away? I'm so glad I didn't have to find out.

Carnut

I think the reason this has happened is because both were wrong. The mum should have been closer and watching her child and the old man should have just watched the child for a few minutes.

I don't think that anybody had a bad intention,the mum could have just lost somebody and her mind wasn't straight (I doubt that though) or maybe it is that young children have a uncanny ability to get away from you the second you turn your head.

The old man may have had good intentions but it doesn't excuse him for not being up to speed with the modern way. You just don't go and grab the hand of first child that is not with their mum.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

It would have been a complete non -story had the 80 year old been female, why the Hell should people be afraid to help for fear of being accused of other things.

I'd stop and help a kid if they looked lost or distressed. Common sense would kick in a bit though, don't walk of with it, be very vocal about your actions and send somebody else off to fetch or locate the parent?

RA Dunk

This is actually sad but true, it's got to the point now I would have done nothing had it been me. All she (the woman) has to say or shout is Peado and someones life would be fcuked, even if they got cleared of it the paedo thing would always be there.

Turbohot

I think the older gentleman was a bit too hasty in helping that child, therefore it doesn't surprise me that some are still finding his over-enthusiastic help questionable. Woman or man, olden days or today's days, you don't just grab a child's hand and walk off with him into another direction. Not that he was that child's relative or anything.

First thing you'd do is that talk to the child. If he confirms to be lost, then you may take him to the security person or a copper.

That old man thought he knew that the kid was definitely lost, and for that reason, I don't favour his knowing and keenness. Perhaps he was influenced by re-ignited McCahn's case, and therefore literally jumped to take the kid to the safety, but from where I'm sitting, people are better off holding their horses and establish the facts first in such situation, that's all.

Perhaps the older gentleman is affected by his own circumstances hence his extra-ordinary jump-at-the-gun but genuine compassion for the child.

specialx

I can only imagine how bad the old gent feels, things like this could finish him off bless him.

ScoobyWon't

What a crap mother. I'd not let a child wander off like that. It should be on a lead if she can't control it. In fact, my dog is better behaved and I don't let him wander off our of my field of vision.

The video is too short to understand the man's intentions. And as pointed out, from his viewing angle, he could not see if there was another child in the push chair going away from him.

I expect that the woman will be playing the victim in this case, blaming everyone else for her own short-comings in parenting. It seems that everything in someone else's fault these days and no-one is responsible for their own actions. If she can't be responsible for a child, she shouldn't have one.

Turbohot

That also takes my attention, and this needs to be attended in order to prevent such happenings. This man didn't intend to harm, but what if some harmful man or a woman was watching this little boy following his mother like this, where he's out of his mother's vision in a busy shopping centre? I'd question mother's attentiveness to her own kids here. Ok, she has her younger one in the pram, but why have another one of you can't keep an eye on the first one? She does turn to look for him, but it only takes a few seconds for things to go wrong, as we can imagine.

I hope she has learnt her lesson.

Mind you, we have all done it. We have all let our kids walk behind us while we were pushing the pram with the younger one inside it. But incidents like this do make you think that it would have been better to keep all children under our radar than having one of them to follow our oblivious butt.

Turbohot

This is exactly what I mean by my second post. I didn't know you had written that above, and I'm glad that you see the same way on that.

Tidgy

i highly doubt he would have come forward if there was anything sinister in his actions.

Given all the publicity of pedophiles and the mcanns you;d think mothers would look after their kids, not let them wander along totaly out of sight.

CrisPDuk

Brings to mind an incident on our road a couple of weeks ago, a girl of about 10 came round the corner on her pushbike, lost the front and went flying, cutting her chin open, and grazing her hands & knees..
Obviously there was instantly a lot of claret & crying from her. I was on the front washing the car, and my first thought was to get her a up out of the road and cleaned up, then find out where she lived and get her and the bike home.
Unfortunately, my second thought was, what are other people going to think about me helping this girl, who I'd never seen before

I went with my first instinct and got her cleaned up, and delivered home a couple of streets away. But it upset me that the second thought had even occurred, or should even need too

Turbohot

Yeah, some one-off stranger helper is easy to pull a finger at, whereas more children are harmed by the people that they know well and trust.

David Lock

By and large kids DO NOT get snatched by strangers although it is a worry for parents of course.

It's a shame that people feel guilty if they talk to a kid by way of a friendly hello or whatever.

This was was just an old boy trying to help. A bit hasty perhaps but mum was mostly to blame.

dl

Carnut

I think the biggest crime is not the old man that probably had good intentions,or the mum that dropped the ball of a second. I think the saddest part is that people start to rip their lives to bits and act as if we know them.

The very thing that the old man may have been doing wrong(to quick to grab the child's hand)has been fabricated by social media. I still don't think it excuses anybody but the old man knows a time when there was no social media,and doing a good deed wasn't scrutinized by the millions .These days you have to be careful when it comes to children whether we like it or not.

As for the mum I don't think we can start saying that she doesn't deserve to have children. This woman could be a amazing mum and a kind and loving person. It does seem to be the case though that these days mums can often be seen walking down the street,to school perhaps talking to one of their friends with the kid 10ft behind.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

The fact that "the incident has prompted police to issue advice to members of the public about what to do if they spot a child who they believe is alone" says it all about today's society IMHO

What next?

Turbohot

This is a brilliant post. Like food for thought.

I like what you say here>

This^ makes this thread unnecessary. You know what people are like, don't you? Nothing better to do in with their time than ripping others' lives apart.

But then you say yourself >


IMO this story highlights important issues, and social media is within its rights to analyse it.

Mothers will perhaps learn a lesson that a perfectly good samaritan can be ripped apart at length by the holier than thou on social media due to their own (I mean mothers') negligence, and good-hearted older people will learn that it's not 1920's now where you walk away with a child because you feel like it. I'm sure in the absence of social media and all this pedophobia in 1920's as well, if a man grabbed a child and just walked off, mother would bash him with her broom stick, no matter how good his intentions were.


I must say that it is sounding contradictory where people are saying that strangers are less of a risk, but then they're blaming mother for leaving her child 10 ft behind. perhaps she was also thinking the same, and therefore she confidently left him scampering along in the back? And if that is the case, why are we wasting time on this story where there is neither a victim nor any perpetrator? Well, we are doing it because people are analysing it, and rightly so. Police did try to get the man with their doubts in their heads about him, and luckily he turned out to be just a good helper. Imagine if he turned out to be a serial child snatcher with a few buried in his back garden? Then everyone would have talked a lot more about this case on the social media.

No matter how much we trust the world to be generally a safe place, none of us can guarantee it to be perfectly safe. Therefore, if not paranoia, a bit of vigilance and care on mother's part will doubtlessly save all the trouble for everyone; including the child, the older gentleman and the mother. Also, social media won't spend time on a news like this, because there won't be one like this.

Anyway, as we are discussing one, mothers' psychology also comes into context where a lot of them think that the younger one in pram is to kidglove in full sight, whereas the older one is safer at his/her older age at the tail end. The fact is, the older one at that age isn't that great to defend himself/herself either. And that is why, mother certainly needs to learn something from this incident.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

My thought would be is how long he was behind them walking before the woman got to the shop? The time spent walking behind them would tell you who the kids mother is as the kid wasn't that far away IMO.
Then to walk straight upto his hand and try to lead him backwards quickly without even stopping for a moment and having a quick chat with him like to say where's his mum etc.
Sorry but I don't 'think' I buy it.

hodgy0_2

He said to the police that he was a little confused over who the mothers was

Anyway - I am pretty sure once he had given his name to the police they would have done some background checks - and then would have taken it further if the checks had unearthed anything suspicious

80 is a bit late to suddenly turn into a nonce after all

Jamz3k

Unfortunately I have learnt in life that no good deed goes unpunished.

Very sad times.

gazney101

iTrader: (5)

I dont ******* buy it either, he was walking behind them then when he got caught he turned and walked the opposite way, the guy is clearly up to no good

ScoobyWon't

The police will have seized all footage from cameras covering the incident from every angle. I'm sure they will be able to verify what directions the guy moved in.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

There was no child ******, so in the eyes of the police there's nothing they can do regardless where or how he was walking or acting, he's gave his story and that's it, no proof of doing wrong so the police can't continue publically.
The police may have other suspicions and probabably keep a close eye on his profile and maybe mark his file incase anything happens later on.
1st time for everything.

You'd be surprised how much you can get away with just by giving them a valid story,(even though they know you was doing wrong) but without hard evidence you can't take it to cps so no charge and let off.
I should know as I've been a naughty boy in my time and gained a lot of knowledge.

ScoobyWon't

Your own activities are completely irrelevant to my point. My point, which you are missing, is that there are more cameras that would have been viewed, not just the tiny bit of footage that the public have seen.

And I should know as I've been a response officer dealing with naughty boys.